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Author Topic: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time (sample inside)  (Read 5028 times)

Plenum n Heather

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When I first got into recording music, it was very much an all-analogue world; the digital recording revolution was still a ways off in the mid-80's. I was a very early adopter of recording on PC and started with Turtle Beach, MOTU, and Sonar's predecessor, CoolEditPro (remember those?!). As time went on, I started doing more and more work ITB.

A couple of recent purchases have me back mixing in the analogue domain! Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm still using plugins, but in conjunction with outboard gear. Nothing fancy, mind -- a 16 ch. Mackie desk, a couple of rack-mounted Lexicon reverbs, and JBL 8" powered monitors.

So, how does it feel pushing faders for rides and doing panning, effects sends, and EQ'ing in real time as opposed to automating everything? In a word, GREAT. LIBERATING also comes to mind. Viewing the mix as a living, breathing thing ... having to live with certain physical limitations, and the mix being the result of actual real-time work.

It has certainly breathed new life into the process and I couldn't be happier! It's definitely not for everyone. The sheer number of cables, calculations and things to keep in your mind simultaneously is daunting and will take some getting used to.

I already feel my mixing abilities getting stronger.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 02:36:59 AM by Plenum n Heather »

Plenum n Heather

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »
Had my first stab at playing the buses through the desk last night. LOT of work. TOTALLY different skill set. Will take some time to get it all down! :)

Plenum n Heather

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 02:42:15 PM »



blue

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 12:02:11 PM »
The combination of the best of both analogue and digital does seem the best way to go.  Each has it's benefits and it's pitfalls, and they can cover each others cracks, as it were.  Sounds like you're enjoying yourself anyway, I hope you're getting the results you want ;)
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Plenum n Heather

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 04:38:07 PM »
Fun, yes!

Results? Not quite there yet. I figure it will take a good month to readjust... I am trying to put some time in with the desk every day, though.

AndyR

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2013, 12:51:43 PM »
I thought you meant you were using tape there for a moment!! :lol: (Or do you mean that? :o)

Yep, I feel MUCH happier with faders and knobs, dealing in just audio and realtime effects, no midi (apart from the drum machine). Mine's all on board a Boss BR1600, though - I do have a desk and some cabling to marshal the keyboards and various amp modellors into the Boss's stereo inputs, but all of the recording-related routing happens inside the BR1600.

I didn't get on with PC-based DAW recording at all when I last tried it.

But I have to admit that I'm starting to miss two things: track envelopes for fader control when there's not enough fingers or if the moves are too complex, and "piano roll" for editing the drum parts. I'm getting tempted to download and learn Reaper to see whether several years of enforced "discipline" means that I can better handle (and ignore :lol:) all the options open to the DAW user!!

Having said that, the thing I've just finished, I had a mix a few days ago but wasn't happy... I hadn't been able to control all the fader-rides I felt it needed. I practiced for a few days and finally got it "right". There'd also been some issues in the choice of reverb lengths and EQ on the reverb - and the top-end was a bit hot in places for my money (combined with not riding the faders well enough on some of the vocal parts). After I'd fixed it all and declared "this is the ONE!!!" ... we listened back to the two mixes - and we actually preferred the vibe of the one where it was wrong!!!

I suspect that might be one of the problems of having automation etc - you can "fix" everything. But if you fix too much, the end product sounds less "interesting", a bit clinical maybe... Anyway, she convinced me to post the "wrong" one (didn't take much convincing! :lol:)

Have fun with the newly re-found "freedom" that knobs and faders give you :D
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

Plenum n Heather

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Re: First experiments mixing in the analogue domain in a looong time
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2013, 02:01:34 PM »
Made some good strides last night until I had to shut down for the kids' bedtime.

First thing I did was start a new project from scratch and instead of using stems, imported all of the individual tracks. A big project, but not huge by today's standards; 79 tracks in total for this one.

Next thing I did was set up buses for all of the main elements -- drums, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, &cet. Then I routed each track to its appropriate bus. The buses then feed from my interface out to the desk.

Once I had all of the elements up, I knew my processing ITB would start to be compromised, so I kept it simple. Just used the channel strip EQ in Cubase (6) for the most basic corrective EQ. Things started improving.

The only 'luxury' I afforded myself was to strap Waves awesome Kramer Master Tape across each bus. Things immediately started to gel.

I then went with simple LCR panning for everything aside from the drums, which have a few soft panned elements. LCR really had me analyzing which elements were the most critical. Did basic level adjustments in Cubase with all faders at Unity.

Lo and behold! Something akin to music! Finally!

The next hurdle was monitor related, as this is just a temp setup. Even tho the monitors are 3-4 feet from the back wall, the room is quite live and I felt the room was obscuring the center image. I also felt that the JBLs were resonating w my folding table in a bad way.

Placed an Auralex panel like a screen running from monitor to monitor. Instant improvement, as the the center image actually appeared and was stable. I then isolated the monitors and gave them a slight downward tilt using pucks and absorbers from Harmonic Resolution Systems and Black Diamond Racing. That really cleaned up the performance in the upper bass/low mids.

Unfortunately I had to stop soon after that, but I felt that I am now getting closer to getting to know the system. I may try putting up temp side baffles tonight using the old acoustic blanket on a mic stand trick.

AndyR, I am not mixing down to tape. Don't really see the necessity. I run from the Mackie's main outs back into the 18i20 to print the mix.

One thing I have noticed is how there appears to be a logorhythm to the perceived volume on analog faders. From, say -9 or so to -3, fader movements are rather smooth and adjustments can be made on the fly without really being noticed. From -3 to Unity, there seems to be a much bigger leap in volume and the track seems to sit on top of t h mix instead of within it. Great for soloing, but you really have to be cautious.

I will probably have to put a compressor across the output just to catch errant peaks.

I am with you re having to really memorize the track to mix in analog! Doing rides by hand is really tough even when you have the tracks balanced coming out of the DAW.

Still, the results I started getting last night showed promise. The mix down is sounding ballsier, way punchier, brighter, and more visceral overall.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 02:04:48 PM by Plenum n Heather »

Plenum n Heather

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Took 18 mixes, but finally starting to get my ears dialed into the process! Couple of quick samples from a much longer song. Still have a long way to go, but it's starting to resemble music now! :)

https://soundcloud.com/as-follows/p1-analog-test-mix-sample-a

DOWNLOAD FOR BETTER AUDIO.

Brow

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I still need to give this a listen, so I will do over the weekend.

Also need to speak to you about NYC as it's only a few weeks away now!  :lol:
Selling lots of gear, enquire within!......

Plenum n Heather

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Dude, I've been IM'g you for days!

JJretroTONEGOD

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Mackie onyx are great desks, I use the 820i every day. It must be nice not having to stare at a screen whilst mixing
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