So, wireless systems again. Tone-suckers or true signal?

[Nadz1lla]

I've been arranging my new pedal board and I've got a little bit of space to play with. I'm only really GASing for one more pedal at the moment, so I'm quite lucky with the space I have. I came to the conclusion that it would be really convenient to have a wireless unit in my chain. I've seen a few around, a lot of people calling some systems "tone-suckers" etc, which makes me pause.

I'm on a budget and wondering if I can get away with Thomann's own T-Bone systems. I've had Thomann / Harley Benton stuff in the past and been very impressed with the build and performance quality of their stuff when you take into consideration how damn cheap their in-house brands are. I am currently running one of their Power Plants for my pedals and it's a budget musician's dream! I don't think I'd ever need to upgrade from that unless I start doubling my pedal count and they all had varying voltages, so what a great buy!

I've hear that their T-Bone mics are pretty damn good for the money, very solid performing bits of kit and as rugged and road-worthy as anything by Shure etc, which makes me think their wireless units might actually be a good idea.

Anyone tried them?

If not, any recommendations of the cheaper wireless systems that don't suck too much tone? I have an EQ pedal and can play with my rig to compensate for a small loss of frequencies, but the truer the signal the better, always!  :D

[CommonCourtesy]

Not cheap cheap but I use the Line 6 Relay G50 and its awesome. No real difference in tone than to playing with a cable, and very very sturdy. Been using it for about 5 months now and no technical issues. Only problems i've had are the transmitter clip isn't very secure at fastening it to your strap but some gaffer tape does the trick there. Receiver can go snugly on the pedalboard and makes it a whole lot neater with no cable kicking around at your feet!

AKG do ones that are like £99 and apparently alright but to me money talks so i wanted a good quality one.

[tekbow]

I dunno.. it's just with wireless systems it's not really the signal from you guitar/pedals when it hits the amp anymore is it? I know we're talking about current and voltages here and it shouldn't really make a difference, but i suffer from a bit of star trek transporter syndrome on this.. if it was guitar, wah, then into wirless and into amp, i wouldn't have as big an issue, but with more pedals? not so sure. Maybe i'm over mojo'ing pedal tech, but to me there's some real life and spirit to old school fuzzes and things of that ilk.

Not very helpful, bit of a ramble really.. apologies.

[Dave Sloven]

Isn't there a buffer in the wireless unit that takes care of that issue?

[Twinfan]

I'm with tekbow - I have an excellent Sennheiser wireless that I used for several years in my AC/DC band, but I've used it once with my current band.  The wireless is a touch brighter in tone than a cable, but it just doesn't quite feel the same to play through.

If you want to run around or aren't so much of a tone hound then they're great.  Me, I prefer the extra 2% (or whatever it is) of feel you get from an old school cable.

[Nadz1lla]

I've heard that said, actually. Seems a lot of wireless units have now "solved" the tone-sucking issue, but there's still that intangible "feel" to think about. Having only recently finally got a proper all-valve amp, I am absolutely in love with the feel of playing through it, and I don't really want to lose that feeling, so maybe wireless is not the answer?

I think I would need to try one out before commenting on that, though, heh. I know a couple of people around my way who have the G50, so I'll ask really nicely if they'll let me have a bit of a play. It's a lot of money to drop on something you might not get on with, feel-wise.

[tekbow]

How big are the venues you're playing? I mean i see 2 options with this,  and if i've got this wrong then please let me know as i have no experience with wireless, but:

1) system goes after your pedal board broadcasting to the receiver going into the amp, in which case, you're still tied to your pedal board by a cable and, in my eyes you've got a disconnect between any OD/FUZZ/Dist before it hits the front end of the amp.

2) you have a belt or strap transmitter from the guitar broadcasting to a receiver in front of the pedal board, in which case you'll still have a fairly long cable run from the board to the amp (presuming your board is front on the stage and your amp is toward the back)

either case to me seems like it's defeating the purpose of having the wireless?

When i think of wireless, i think of guys doing stadium or big hall gigs where they move around a lot. and a lot of the time those guys effects are backstage being operated by their tech with the exception of maybe a wah or something (am thinking the likes of dream theatre here) and it's all been combined in a custom built effects setup.

Like i said, i think if you're talking "straight in", guitar, trans/rec, amp, then it's not so much an issue. but if you got a big board of in the front stuff, especially with old school effects then it needs to stay direct.

In some things i call spraff, like TS9 vs 808's and their respective chips etc, but i'm quite suprised to learn how superstitious i can be about other things, i mean as i said, it's all just currents and voltages right?

[Plenum n Heather]

Wireless is no longer the tone suck it once was. Line 6 purchased a high end wireless manufacturer (I forget which one) and their wireless units are basically rebranded versions. They are supposed to be very good. I am a cable guy, not having the cable drag really throws me off!

[Dave Sloven]

2) you have a belt or strap transmitter from the guitar broadcasting to a receiver in front of the pedal board, in which case you'll still have a fairly long cable run from the board to the amp (presuming your board is front on the stage and your amp is toward the back)

Generally you have it on the board, with cables running back to the amp.  The idea is freedom of movement for the guitarist.  If you think you might trip over the wires between the board and the amp when you are jumping around like a clown with your new-found freedom, then you can always gaffa tape your cables down to the floor.  Unless of course you are playing on carpet, which means you are in a small pub and don't have room to run around anyway!

[tekbow]

2) you have a belt or strap transmitter from the guitar broadcasting to a receiver in front of the pedal board, in which case you'll still have a fairly long cable run from the board to the amp (presuming your board is front on the stage and your amp is toward the back)

Generally you have it on the board, with cables running back to the amp.  The idea is freedom of movement for the guitarist.  If you think you might trip over the wires between the board and the amp when you are jumping around like a clown with your new-found freedom, then you can always gaffa tape your cables down to the floor.  Unless of course you are playing on carpet, which means you are in a small pub and don't have room to run around anyway!

yeah, but thats not the disadvantage I'm talking about. What i mean is my shortest cable is between me and the board and the longest one between the board and amp. If the whole point of a wireless is freedom of movement, the secondary point with their revised buffers, would be to eliminate a cable and therefore cable loading. So excepting my "transporter" paranoia (and i'm still not convinced about how these'll react with old skool effects like germ fuzzes) you're looking to eliminate the tone suck of a long cable run. But if you're doing the above with it, you still have a long cable run.

So in that case you're adding the tonal effects of a long cable to whatever (even if it is only minor) the effect of the Wireless is. effectively you're worse off than when you started.

BTW this all a thought experiment for me at the moment, like i say, i like cables, and i'm never used a wireless.

[CommonCourtesy]

My set up and stage position allows me to shift the cables going out of the last pedal in my board to my amp out of the way, i'm on stage left usually so i keep the outgoing cable, footswitch cable and power supply going to the left so its not in my way.

Never ever experienced any tonal problems, in fact it sounds purer and more crisp than a cable to me, i use the cable emulator thing set to 20ft for some top end loss. Works out a treat.

[Doctor Doug]

I've been using wirleless setups forever and have had about ten of them.  If you get something fairly high end that is digital, you should be totally fine.  I've been using a line 6 G50 for a long time now and it's fantastic.  The signal is actually more pure than with my cable.  I also run my wireless into my pedals and my pedals into my amp.  The cords are annoying, but the freedom is great.  Just tape 'em down!

[tekbow]

If you get something fairly high end that is digital, you should be totally fine.

Star Trek Transporter! ;)

I've been using a line 6 G50 for a long time now and it's fantastic.  The signal is actually more pure than with my cable.  I also run my wireless into my pedals and my pedals into my amp.  The cords are annoying, but the freedom is great.  Just tape 'em down!

How is converting a signal from analog to digital, broadcating it wirelessly then converting it back as opposed to a direct signal running thru cabling more "pure"?

I just don't think i'll ever understand wireless for anything other than huge venues, totally a matter of taste though.

[Dave Sloven]

Sometimes I wish I had wireless for playing at home because I am such a clumsy doofus and tend to step on my guitar cable a lot.  One day I'm going to rip the jack out of my guitar if I'm not careful.  I've had to tighten it a few times  :?

[Dmoney]

Sometimes I wish I had wireless for playing at home because I am such a clumsy doofus and tend to step on my guitar cable a lot.  One day I'm going to rip the jack out of my guitar if I'm not careful.  I've had to tighten it a few times  :?

I use a Bullet coil cable for this reason when I'm home. stops you getting big tangles of cable around your living room. works pretty well.