When a Holydiver is too dark

[case report]

Hi all!
I usually play '80 heavy metal (early Iron Maiden most of all) and there's Holydiver bridge pick up on both Jackson Fusion Pro and Charvel San Dimas...
Jackson is basswood body, maple neck with ebony fingerboard, 24.75" scale
Charvel is alder body, all maple neck, 25.50"
I'm completely satisfied with Holydiver on Charvel, absolutely perfect!
But it's some problem with Jackson, I mean the sound of Holydiver is too dark and a little muddy on bottom end; furthermore I miss the brilliance on lightest strings...

It's easy to understand that different woods make the difference
So, which pick up can resolve this situation?
Thank you in advance!

P.S.
don't wanna change amp eq neither use an eq stompbox

[Telerocker]

Rebel Yell has a brighter topend and a tight bass. If you desire a more scooped spectrum a Cold Sweat could be an option, unless you prefer alnico magnets.

[darrenw5094]

This is a cracking tone from the Rebel Yells. Might even swap the Holy Diver in my newer Charvel for these.

[Dave Sloven]

I read the question and immediately thought 'get a Rebel Yell'

The Cold Sweat could also work if you want that scoop and a bit more low end.  I have one and it doesn't sound especially ceramic, or at least its cleans don't suffer for it.

I should probably add that to my ears the Rebel Yell is more 'rock' and the Cold Sweat is more 'metal'

The CS might be what you are looking for.  I've found mine to be very versatile.  The RY has a bit more upper mid-range 'raunch' in the sound from what I can tell, and not as big a bottom end as the CS.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I can see the logic in both suggestions but as I've never tried a Rebel Yell myself, I'm going to suggest a Cold Sweat. I found it great for what you're after. Tighter and more open than the Holydiver but still ideally suited to the 80s Metal you want. Fantastic pickup. A calibrated set would be perfect.

[Lucas]

I`m quite suprised `cause as far as I know both alder and basswood are balanced tone woods. Basswood is slightly warmer indeed but I wouldnt expect such a difference to be honest.

So going even further HD bridge will become muddy and dark in all korina chambered (similar to mahogany) made guitar with all maple neck?

I suppose in case report`s situation guitar scale makes a difference as well. Charvel has longer one, that might be the reason also.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Yes, I was surprised too as the Holydiver will even work in a Les Paul but maybe he just likes things bright. Horses for courses I suppose. Either way, I think a Cold Sweat set would certainly cure his problem.

[Dave Sloven]

The Cold Sweats are a beautiful sounding set, that's for sure.  I've been so happy with mine since I installed them, although I love my Stockholm and Warpigs just as much

[case report]

Yes, I'm surprised too experiencing this problem and reading your posts it comes to me a doubt about wiring...
I bought bare knuckle wiring for HSS but I'm not sure about luthier work

So here is some picture of the wiring, I'm completely dumb for this  :lol:
Maybe someone can understand if it's good job or not







Thank you!!!

[nkay]

For me, the Holydiver did not work in my basswood Fender Contemporary Strat either. Basswood is too neutral and flat, and the Holy Diver eq-wise is a very flat sounding already. And to be honest it really soured me on the Diver at first until I realized it was the guitar. I eventually tried a Cold Sweat bridge in there instead and it was perfect, makes the highs and lows jump out while maintaining a neutral midrange. In my experience, basswood needs a ceramic pickup to shine.

I'm hoping to try the Holydiver in the Les Paul Custom Lite I just got and I think it's lighter/brighter character will work with it. I don't think it would work in a dark Les Paul either.

[Lucas]

To be honest I woudnt say that there`s such a vast difference between alder and basswood tone-wise. Weight-wise there`s of course.

Slart, you have HD bridge in your PRS which has mahogany body, how does the pickup cope with lows? Does it get muddy or anything like that?

[Telerocker]

If you want a clean sound with complex overtones and that classic ringing character, I prefer alder/ash over basswood. Fender Customshops are alder and ash for a good reason. But, everything depends on the quality of the timbers and the purpose of the guitar. Some basswood Music Mans-models sound very good for rock/metal.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Slart, you have HD bridge in your PRS which has mahogany body, how does the pickup cope with lows? Does it get muddy or anything like that?

I'm tuned to Eb in all my guitars and I've never found the Holydiver to be muddy at all or especially dark. There could be two reasons for that. Firstly, I find I increasingly like a darker and richer tone as opposed to something obviously 'bright' as long as the tone remains highly articulate and the Holydiver does just that. Secondly, my other PRS (same model) uses a Crawler in the bridge, which is naturally much darker, fatter and richer than the Holydiver so playing the Holydiver straight after the Crawler makes the Holydiver sound quite bright and tight in comparison. When I first got the Crawler I found it to be so dark and fat that I used Kiichi's trick of lowering the pickup and raising the pole pieces but over time I've gradually returned the pickup to a more normal position so I have it 2mm from the strings with the pole pieces in their conventional positions and it sounds awesome.

I get the impression that a lot of people on the forum naturally like things a bit brighter than me. I also think (I may be wrong) that 'muddy' is sometimes misunderstood as a term. If a pickup is quite thick sounding, or positively fat in the case of the Crawler, and has a bit of compression, the resulting sound is sometimes seen as 'muddy' when there's quite a bit of gain. I think that sometimes people might be more accurate if they say it's too compressed and they want something more open sounding but a pickup can be compressed, like the Crawler, but retain a high degree of articulation. I know I always used to get confused between 'tight' and 'articulate' because I thought they meant the same thing but now I realise they don't. A tight pickup will generally be an articulate pickup (Nailbomb) but a pickup that isn't as tight can still be articulate (Crawler). I've never yet experienced a Bare Knuckle pickup turning to mud. I can see how Case Report might find the Holydiver too dark if he naturally likes bright pickups. He likes the Holydiver in the Charvel but in an alder and maple guitar, possibly with a Floyd, the Holydiver will still be relatively bright, certainly by my standards. If that's the case, I can see that he might find it too thick at the bottom end in a darker guitar and miss the 'brilliance' but I very much doubt it's muddy.

[Dave Sloven]

Slarti I think you would probably enjoy an A-Pig in a mahogany guitar, you should try it sometime.  Evil and dark sounding, but not 'muddy' ... the OP should keep away from that combo though!

[Slartibartfarst42]

It's a pickup that has long appealed to me, especially when GuitarIV told me it was like the next logical step on the line from Holydiver and Miracle Man. The trouble is that I'm not a man with any great desire to own loads of guitars so each one has to cover a reasonable amount of ground and I don't generally associate that with a Warpig. I've only recently gone to three guitars and I have no desire at all to buy a fourth so sadly I may never get to try the A-Pig  :(