Bridge humbucker choice for 30" baritone - advice required

[Eylin]

Hi all,

Sorry for my first post being a new topic, didn't find all the info I needed with the search.
Here is my situation:

I am the happy owner of a BC Rich Bich SE Baritone ( http://www.guitariste.com/forums/photos/7485-1-big.jpg for whoever wonders how it looks like), of decent quality (not custom shop, not falling apart either).
Specs: Nato body, bolt-on maple neck with ebony board. 24 frets, 30" neck. strings-through TOM-like bridge.
Tuned to drop G (GDGCEA) with 14-74 d'Addario nickel wound.
Only one bridge pickup, with volume and tone controls.

Here is my plan:
Custom wiring, with both controls becoming push/push:
- volume pot: if up, split coil; if down full humbucker
- tone pot: if up, "standard" circuit: pickup->volume->tone->out; if down "straight out": pickup->out

in other words, volume and tone "controls" will only work if the tone push/push is in upper position. This is how I get more flexibility out of a single pickup, especially given that I mostly play through a single channel amp (Orange #4 sig).

So, what I need: a pickup with super fast and precise bass response (to handle a low G in 74) and global tight response to handle industrial riffs, for example. But also sounding very good when split and cleaning up nicely with the volume pot, so i can get a decent clean tone out of it when needed (by just pressing the push/push).

I have an Aftermath in my Schecter and i'm happy with it, but i'm afraid it may be too harsh or compressed for such low tuning with a maple neck.
Thinking Juggernaut could do, maybe. or a Black Hawk (although trem spaced humbuckers seem to work, i measured around 52-53mm over the pickup).

What would you suggest for such application? :)
sorry for the long post, I think it's better to explain how it's going to be used...
Thanks!

[Kiichi]

Hi and welcome!

Main thing about baritones is that the extra length adds high and low end, so youŽll ususally want a PU with a lot of mids. I can see the AM work for that reason, but I can also see your concern. Perhaps the absolute baritone favorite is the Blackdog. It is said to work with them like nothing else. Will not be too harsh, can handle metal with authority even in non baritone guitars. Cleaning up is no issue, only I do not know if it would be tight enough. I am not that familiar with baritones yet so I donŽt quite know how wobbly that low G is.

Dunno how the BH and Jugg would perform, sorry.

[Eylin]

Thanks for the reply :)
i'll see if I can get someone to let me try a Blackdog around here, although it's not easy (in Hong Kong, it's mostly about Djent when it comes to BKPs, so you mostly see very high output ones...
I get your point on the Blackdog and it's addition to mids, sounds about right, provided that it will be tight enough. The limited output would make it easy to tame for cleans, which is nice.

Regarding my low G, the 74 string gives it a decent amount of tension (I think most 8 strings have thinner strings on shorter necks and they go lower than G), which helps keeping some note definition. A tight pickup will complement that quite nicely I think :)

[Kiichi]

I personally have a 7 string where I used up to a 70 for the low B which I hated until I switched to a 65 with increased core strength. Liked the tension, did not get along with the thickness. My experience with baritones, thus far limited to guitar store tryouts (got my sights on a Hagstrom Viking Baritone though), lets me think it should go ok.

Do you use the amp with a boost or overdrive? I really dug it when I tried it, but with the wattage I could see that any tightness issues could be down more to the amp than the guitar if no overdrive or boost were used to tighten things up. EQ can also work to a certain extend. With any of those I would guess that the BD can give you a tight enough sound with a character that would really set you appart.

[Alex]

I have a Juggernaut in my baritone (27", tuned to B standard) and it handles the lows well, but the pickup's tonality is quite mid-focused anyway. I don't have a BD anymore, but considering you tune even below A I think either a BD, Mule or Riff Raff might work better. Basically you want it as clear as possible and lower output pickups usually do that. Then let the amp do the work.

From my experience, extended scale instruments can be quite a pain to find a pickup that works with them, because most pickups were never designed for them! With a 30" scale I'd be tempted to call your guitar a "bass guitar in disguise", all that's really different is the string gauge if you think about it.  :D

[Eylin]

Thanks both.

Kiichi, do you mind if I ask what strings you use with the increased core strength? So far I go with d'Addarios for two main reasons: they resist my skin PH quite well, and they are still find-able here in HK, at least the most standard sets, so it saves me a few bucks of shipping for my Les Paul, my Fenders, etc.
I however openly admit that 74 is a bit chunky, and if I can find a way to keep tension with a slightly thinner string, I probably wouldn't complain.
Regarding the amp, no boost or anything so far, mostly because:
1. it's a single channel, and if I have a boost in front of it, I can probably forget about cleans, unless I turn it off for that (so tap dance + guitar controls tweaking)
2. the current original BDSM BC Rich pickup (...) is one extremely hot thing, and it really didn't make me feel like throwing in anything to add to that.  :lol:  Also, I play lots of different guitars, thus keeping a simple rig saves me from tweaking everything when I change instruments.

I understand that the amp power is questionable, but to be honest I'm surprised everyday about how well this little thing handles everything nicely, from bluesy things on my Esquire to super high gain dropped riffing on my Schecter w/ Aftermath... and sadly I doubt my neighbours would tolerate a higher output anyway...

Alex, I get your point :)  although I still feel more guitar-ish than guys with 8 strings dropped to F :lol:  it's definitely an interesting sound territory to work on, and that's one of the reasons why I want to keep good cleans, because it really sounds like nothing too common. Kind of in between. Playing clean chords is really cool.

Wouldn't a split Black Dog be really low output?  as I'll have that split option installed, it's better if both settings remain audible.. :)  Thanks!

[Kiichi]

I now mostly use DŽaddario too, pretty good and available. Prefer DR a little though they are much harder to come by. The ones with increased core strength I used were custom Newtones. Hardest to come by by far, but my fav strings. Ordering from them directly takes months cause they are so swamped, but you can get custom sets, material gauges and if you want higher core strength and such.

Dunlop makes heavy cores too, but I have not tried them and have heard mixed things. Sides that I guess that Ernie Balls have low core strength the way they feel.

I can see the issue with playing lots of guitars and such when it comes to boosts. A clean boost would be the best option (different than a high output PU) and they are very cool I find, but with cleans that might become and issue on a single channel as you point out.

Thing with the low wattage is not the power or volume, just that the lower the watt the more issue they have with handling low end. Bass players using high wattages is not just about clean headroom.

[Dave Sloven]

Personally I would be taking the Aftermath out of your Schecter (assuming that it is a six-string with the same leg length etc) and trying it in the BC Rich.  It's a lot of stuffing about with the soldering iron and a couple of sets of strings but at least then you can (1) see if another Aftermath is the ticket or (2) have a great basis for assessing what other BKP might work.

[Eylin]

Agent Orange, I wish I could, but my Schecter is narrow spaced (49mm) when my Bich is a wide machine (52-53mm although it's a fixed bridge, I think they just made sure there would be room for thick strings, can't blame them for that), so the magnetic field of my Schecter's Aftermath wouldn't cover everything on my baritone.
Just saying, if you guys ever get your hands on a Schecter Devil Custom, get it and swap the pickups. Great, cheap guitar. :D

Kiichi, I get your point. Not really willing to upgrade my amp for now, but I'm in the process of assembling my full pedalboard with all the stompboxes I bought over the years (and that's a lot) so I'll get my RC booster out of its box and give it some fresh air :)

[Dave Sloven]

I actually don't think the pole spacing would make too much difference for a simple test, especially if what you are doing is riffing, as long as the legs are not too long to fit in the BC Rich.  Once you've tested it that way you should have a good idea as to whether an Aftermath might be right for it or whether you would be better off with something else.

BTW I hated the Dunlop Heavy Cores, FWIW.  I prefer their Ernie Ball strings (I use Beefy Slinkys for D standard, regular Slinkys for E standard).  D'Addarrio I've tried but they dull quickly.

I'm wondering how an alnico Nailbomb or even a Painkiller might fare with your tunings.

[Eylin]

Agent Orange, I'll see if I can give this a try, the main issue being that here in Hong Kong housing comes in small units and I'm lacking space to store tools. Which basically means that I'd need to have one of my friends doing the swap for me, etc. Feasible, just more complicated than it should be... :?

Your suggestions sound good. Funny to see that according to BK tone charts, the Painkiller and the Black Dog have a rather similar response, but one is a hot ceramic while the other is a more vintage styled alnico.
I have a Nailbomb neck that I find to be a bit weak, but at least it does good cleans. Never got the chance to try a bridge one.
If that helps anyone, I quite like the sound Karyu got when in D'espairsRay, where he used to play baritone versions of thishttp://www.espguitars.co.jp/artist/karyu/index.html up to very long scales, but always with the SH-5.  Hard to tell what gear he was using besides that, not much info found. You may have a look at this video, if japanese rock doesn't bum you out http://youtu.be/W2KopQb4iv8

So we have here suggestions of
- Black Dog [2 votes]
- Painkiller [1]
- Alnico Nailbomb [1]

Anything else?   so far leaning towards either a Black Dog (slightly worried about output when split and tightness) or Painkiller (as I tend to like ceramic bridge PUPs, but then, slight worry on too compressed?)

[dvorak]

One more vote for the black dog here. I just put one in my 27" Blacktop Tele and it rocks.

Very tight in that guitar, and put out more punch than I thought (probably because of the extra scale length and more massive strings). I am though a big fan of low output pickups, and I would consider the BD quite hot in my baritone.

In a 30" guitar I would be very cautious of using a high output pickup. It can be a mass of just too much output and a carpet of sound if you are unlucky.q

[mongey]

drop G I'd be sticking with ceramic personally.

I have a 6 string tuned in all 5ths with a low G  with a 76 and I chucked in alnico warpig  that I had unused . it sounds  good but i'm just experimenting this all 5ths thing on a spare guitar . If I was gonna gig some songs with it I'd want more cermaic tightness in the bottom end

[Eylin]

Thanks all for the advice :)

Mongey, I understand your point and was leaning towards a ceramic, but then listening again and again to the soundclips got me thinking: ceramics seem to have a sharper attack, which comes in handy when it comes to cutting through a mix. But... I play 14-74 strings on a 30" neck, which is quite some tension and already gives a rather aggressive attack, plus I use abrasive picks... I'm afraid that a ceramic will give me lots and lots of this sharp attack, and less of the rest, namely the round, warm note itself.

So I'm very likely to get a Black Dog. at least if it doesn't bite enough I know what I'll have to do: ceramic instead.

One question for all of you: do you know how to request a feasible but non-listed option when ordering?
To be precise, I'm thinking of black or black battleworn, but with gold screws, so it'll look a bit different.

Thanks! :D

[Kiichi]

I think that should go in the comment box. When in doubt a quick email to the team always works. The guys and service are exeptional.