Thinking of going low output - thoughts?

[Telerocker]

The Mule can handle a decent amount of gain. Anything up to and including 80s rock levels is easily fine. I think Metallica levels of gain are a little too much, but still ok.

If you are worried you could go with some kind of combination. For example a Riff Raff bridge and a Mule neck, or even a Stormy Monday neck.

Sounds definitely like you would be better to go potted.

Nolly pulled of some ripping metal with a Mules-loaded Blackmachine. But any of the combinations gwEm mentions will work. Since the OP said he's plays highgain for 25% of the time on a gainy amp like the Rectoverb, he can stick easily to low output pickups. Potted for sure. Don't worry, potted Mules or RR's have plenty of mojo!

[Markdude]

Sounds like potted will be the way to go! I wish I could find a good comparison clip between potted and unpotted pickups though, but I've had no luck. I'd really love to hear the difference since everyone seems to rave about unpotted ones.

I think I've narrowed it down to Mule set or RR bridge/Mule neck. I just can't pick! Time to do some more forum searching I suppose! Ah, first world dilemmas.

[Kiichi]

Yeah, the potted, unpotted thing is a hard topic. From what I gather you can describe it a bit like this: When comparing BKPs to other pubs you notice that certain mojo, air, sparkel, 3Dness, depth, etc. Whatever you might call it. When comparing unpotted and potted you get even more of that, of all that goodnes. In turn you are more vurnerabel to feedback and microphonic problems. Therefore unpotted is usually prefered for lower gain applications. They can also be taken higher gain, but precautions are then recommended (propper shielding, etc). I have heard clips of unpotted Stormys do great things.

I dunno, I might even say go for unpotted. For a studio axe and with vintage pots it seems like a good way of maximising all that mojo to me.

I must declare however that I have not tried unpotted yet. My 10th anniversary are unpotted, but I have not fitted them as I do not have a worthy axe yet. However I am 100% that I would get unpotted for a guitar with only vintage HBs. That is me however.

[Telerocker]

I think I've narrowed it down to Mule set or RR bridge/Mule neck. I just can't pick! Time to do some more forum searching I suppose! Ah, first world dilemmas.

The Mesa is not an overly bright amp, so the RR would fit very well. I'm a big fan of the Mule, but don't go blind on my preference in this case. The RR is certainly a good option.

[Markdude]

The Riff Raff might make more sense, now that I think about it. IME, it's easier to use post-EQ to tame a bright sounding guitar tone than it is to make a dark one brighter (without sounding unnatural). Plus the Recto's EQ controls are a little strange. It seems like the lower you turn the treble, the thicker the tone becomes (all of it, not just a general cutting of treble). That's desirable to give the tone some body, but it's a tricky balance act getting the treble setting where the tone has enough body but also cuts well. Sometimes it seems if it has a good amount of treble, everything else is a little bit anemic. It's a really delicate balance. Perhaps a RR would be a good option for it since it would allow me to run the treble setting lower (giving more body), but the cut would be provided by the pickup's natural treble.

Plus, I saw a few posts from Nolly advocating a RR bridge and Mule neck as a killer combo. One even said "there's nothing an LP can't do with a RR bridge and Mule neck", and he mentioned he was going to have that combo in an LP-style guitar he was ordering (but that was a few years ago and I'm a pretty big fan of his, and I don't recall him ever getting that guitar after all). Even though he's primarily a metal player, he's got one of the best ears for tone (and just recording/mixing/sound in general) and I trust his judgement a lot.

[BigB]

Gaaaaaah. Still can't decide between a Mule bridge or Riff Raff bridge! Seems like the Riff Raff would be better for any kind of rock stuff and the Mule would be better for clean and low gain stuff

The Mule bridge is IMHO as good as the RR for rock stuff. FWIW, while the RR bridge / Mule neck is one of Tim's (and Nolly's) favs, I think the reverse combo would be very interesting too, at least if you do like a bright neck pup.

[Telerocker]

The Riff Raff might make more sense, now that I think about it. IME, it's easier to use post-EQ to tame a bright sounding guitar tone than it is to make a dark one brighter (without sounding unnatural). Plus the Recto's EQ controls are a little strange. It seems like the lower you turn the treble, the thicker the tone becomes (all of it, not just a general cutting of treble). That's desirable to give the tone some body, but it's a tricky balance act getting the treble setting where the tone has enough body but also cuts well. Sometimes it seems if it has a good amount of treble, everything else is a little bit anemic. It's a really delicate balance. Perhaps a RR would be a good option for it since it would allow me to run the treble setting lower (giving more body), but the cut would be provided by the pickup's natural treble.

Plus, I saw a few posts from Nolly advocating a RR bridge and Mule neck as a killer combo. One even said "there's nothing an LP can't do with a RR bridge and Mule neck", and he mentioned he was going to have that combo in an LP-style guitar he was ordering (but that was a few years ago and I'm a pretty big fan of his, and I don't recall him ever getting that guitar after all). Even though he's primarily a metal player, he's got one of the best ears for tone (and just recording/mixing/sound in general) and I trust his judgement a lot.

Mesa's can be difficult to dial in. The eq interacts. Pumping up the treble has an effect on the mids too. The RR could be the right pickup to retain cut while keeping enough fundament.

Nolly is really an expert since he played the whole BKP-range for the clips on the site.  Besides that he's an amazing player.

[ericsabbath]

I never get tired of the riff raff/mule combo in my '73 les paul custom (the one in my avatar)
the riff raff does literally anything with the proper amp and pedals
I use a single channel modded '73 50w marshall jmp lead with master volume controls and extra preamp gain with shared input triodes
I can get amazing clean tones with the guitar knobs rolled off a bit, great classic, grunge, alternative and punk rock tones with gain half way, monster doom-like tones by using more gain, and cutting modern metal tones with a proper overdrive booster to cut the low end and add some upper mids
I can also get telecaster-like sounds by using a parametric or graphic equalizer in front of the amp, and I don't even have a coil split
if they can do that much with a single channel amp, you shouldn't have a problem with a rectifier

[Dave Sloven]

I can't imagine a world in which unpotted would be a viable option.  I have to stand three feet away from my amplifier at all times even with potted pickups and shielded cavities :D

[Zaned]

The Riff Raff / Mule combo is an excellent one, I have it on my 2002 PRS McCarty.

You can read detailed reviews from the sticky 'review collection thread', but here's my take on the pickups. With the BKP caps and pots especially, it's an amazing combination. https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29247

Btw, Riff Raff / Mule is very close to Page's LP (I remember reading that) and Pete Thorn played quite a few Zeppelin riffs on that video :)

-Zaned

[Markdude]

Okay, really close to pulling the trigger but I'm still hesitating based on a few concerns.

I think I'm going to take a chance and go with unpotted. Since this guitar will be used for direct recording 95+% of the time (I'm gonna buy a Kemper within the next few months, as well) at pretty low volumes, I think (or at least hope) I could get away with them. In fact, about the only thing I dislike about the state of direct recording these days (it's come a long way) is that it's harder to get feedback when you want it. I'm a big fan of sustained chords occasionally fading into musical feedback. It just makes the vibe of the song more exciting. I haven't been able to get feedback unless I crank the monitors and put the guitar right up next to them, and I really would actually like to get more "accidental" (but still pleasant) feedback (I guess 'happy accidents' would be a good term) when recording, which I currently can't get. Would going unpotted increase the chances of musical feedback in that environment? Or do they only contribute to undesirable microphonic feedback?

Another question I have about unpotted pickups is how it affects the frequency response of the pickups vs. potted pickups. I've heard they really open up the top end, which sounds great, but do they affect the lower frequences at all? For instance, do they make the bass any looser? Or do they pretty much just improve the high end and add harmonic content?

And lastly, I've almost decided on a Riff Raff bridge and Mule neck, since I've heard the RR is a little brighter and punchier, which would be good for cutting through a mix nicely. However, since I've heard unpotted adds a bit of treble and presence, would an unpotted Riff Raff be maybe TOO bright? If I'm going unpotted, would a Mule set be better? I saw Eric Hellstyle mention that an unpotted Mule would sound a lot like the Pete Thorn video (first one in my original post), and I really love that tone. The main reason I'm leaning towards the Riff Raff is actually because I actually envision it being close to that tone because people say it's bright, open, and punchy...but does going unpotted change the equation enough that a Mule would be a better fit?

[juansolo]

I am very likely going to have an unpotted mule neck pup up for sale shortly (I was hoping to have it swapped out by now but the replacement still hasn't turned up)... Raw nickel cover with the box and wotnot. £65 to you sir.

[Telerocker]

Okay, really close to pulling the trigger but I'm still hesitating based on a few concerns.

I think I'm going to take a chance and go with unpotted. Since this guitar will be used for direct recording 95+% of the time (I'm gonna buy a Kemper within the next few months, as well) at pretty low volumes, I think (or at least hope) I could get away with them. In fact, about the only thing I dislike about the state of direct recording these days (it's come a long way) is that it's harder to get feedback when you want it. I'm a big fan of sustained chords occasionally fading into musical feedback. It just makes the vibe of the song more exciting. I haven't been able to get feedback unless I crank the monitors and put the guitar right up next to them, and I really would actually like to get more "accidental" (but still pleasant) feedback (I guess 'happy accidents' would be a good term) when recording, which I currently can't get. Would going unpotted increase the chances of musical feedback in that environment? Or do they only contribute to undesirable microphonic feedback?

Another question I have about unpotted pickups is how it affects the frequency response of the pickups vs. potted pickups. I've heard they really open up the top end, which sounds great, but do they affect the lower frequences at all? For instance, do they make the bass any looser? Or do they pretty much just improve the high end and add harmonic content?

And lastly, I've almost decided on a Riff Raff bridge and Mule neck, since I've heard the RR is a little brighter and punchier, which would be good for cutting through a mix nicely. However, since I've heard unpotted adds a bit of treble and presence, would an unpotted Riff Raff be maybe TOO bright? If I'm going unpotted, would a Mule set be better? I saw Eric Hellstyle mention that an unpotted Mule would sound a lot like the Pete Thorn video (first one in my original post), and I really love that tone. The main reason I'm leaning towards the Riff Raff is actually because I actually envision it being close to that tone because people say it's bright, open, and punchy...but does going unpotted change the equation enough that a Mule would be a better fit?

I don't know how much a difference potted and unpotted make, but it can't be miles away. I think you can adjust things with the amp-eq and the height of the pickup (which can make a dramatic difference with scatterwound pickups).

[Markdude]

Okay, really close to pulling the trigger but I'm still hesitating based on a few concerns.

I think I'm going to take a chance and go with unpotted. Since this guitar will be used for direct recording 95+% of the time (I'm gonna buy a Kemper within the next few months, as well) at pretty low volumes, I think (or at least hope) I could get away with them. In fact, about the only thing I dislike about the state of direct recording these days (it's come a long way) is that it's harder to get feedback when you want it. I'm a big fan of sustained chords occasionally fading into musical feedback. It just makes the vibe of the song more exciting. I haven't been able to get feedback unless I crank the monitors and put the guitar right up next to them, and I really would actually like to get more "accidental" (but still pleasant) feedback (I guess 'happy accidents' would be a good term) when recording, which I currently can't get. Would going unpotted increase the chances of musical feedback in that environment? Or do they only contribute to undesirable microphonic feedback?

Another question I have about unpotted pickups is how it affects the frequency response of the pickups vs. potted pickups. I've heard they really open up the top end, which sounds great, but do they affect the lower frequences at all? For instance, do they make the bass any looser? Or do they pretty much just improve the high end and add harmonic content?

And lastly, I've almost decided on a Riff Raff bridge and Mule neck, since I've heard the RR is a little brighter and punchier, which would be good for cutting through a mix nicely. However, since I've heard unpotted adds a bit of treble and presence, would an unpotted Riff Raff be maybe TOO bright? If I'm going unpotted, would a Mule set be better? I saw Eric Hellstyle mention that an unpotted Mule would sound a lot like the Pete Thorn video (first one in my original post), and I really love that tone. The main reason I'm leaning towards the Riff Raff is actually because I actually envision it being close to that tone because people say it's bright, open, and punchy...but does going unpotted change the equation enough that a Mule would be a better fit?

I don't know how much a difference potted and unpotted make, but it can't be miles away. I think you can adjust things with the amp-eq and the height of the pickup (which can make a dramatic difference with scatterwound pickups).

True, I was just wondering if unpotted might be inherently looser in the bass since they seem to be attributed to more vintage tone. I like the open, bright character of vintage tones but I've gotta be able to tighten up the bass for some circumstances (but that's not too hard with a Tube Screamer).

Anyone have any insight on whether unpotted pickups have more tendency to provide musical feedback too? Or just microphonic feedback?

[Telerocker]

Unpotted pickups are more prone to squeal, but Tim playes unpotted Mules with quite a bit of gain without troubles.  Never had unpotted pups, so I can't tell you exactly how much ampvolume/gain they can handle without any squealing.