Eight-string humbuckers

[Fulgrim]

Hey guys, I've been lurking here for ages but this is my first post.
So, hello everyone, pleased to meet you.

I've picked up a load of information and ideas from various posts on here about pickups in general, so I thought it was the best place to ask for advice on my first BKP.

I play alt. rock/post-hardcore on an Ibanez RG8, it's a basswood eight-string with a bolt-on neck. I'm looking to replace the bridge pickup and I'm aiming for more clarity and detail, and an overall clearer and organic sound.
I play through an Orange TH30, what I tend to do is roll the volume back on the neck pickup for cleans and then switch to the bridge for a full distorted tone, so I'm after something that has a higher output than the stock neck, which I think is about 9-10k.
That said, I've been told that lower-outpup pups tend to have more clarity available and can be better for eight-strings.
I also like alnico magnets and I'm not really interested in ceramic, but I'm open to suggestions.

I've asked various people for opinions and advice, I'm currently torn between the Emerald (because of its moderate output and tight lows, also it's described as fairly clear), Holy Diver (higher output, punchy mids and supposed to work best in brighter, bolt-on guitars) and alnico Warpig (an odd choice, recommended to me by people who say it has really grainy mids, tight lows and is thick and warm, all of which sound ideal for me but I can't help being put off by the output).

So, anyone with any advice, or experience of those three pickups in an eight-string or low tuning?
The descriptions I've had of the Warpig make it sound pretty appealing but it looks really hot. I don't want mud and also I'm not a metal player so I don't need or use masses of distortion.
No idea how the Holy Diver or the Emerald is meant to sound in an eight, but both of them look like good pickups for differing reasons.
I'm hoping to get as good an idea as possible since I really need a new pickup but can't afford to buy another if I make the wrong choice the first time.


tl;dr - Emerald, Holy Diver or Warpig in an Ibanez Eight string?

[Kiichi]

Hi and welcome mate!

The Emerald sure is absolute ace in extended range guitars. It is bright and clear, thus keeping your low strings tight and defined, likely more than you can imagine. Our dear Nolly used to praise the Emerald for modern metal, especially in extended range guitars for a reason. It will also give you a great character as it is between modern and vintage. More open than most modern metal PUs and just more of that old goodness without the drawbacks. Really all you could want I recon.

I must however add that I do not know much about basswood, so while I am sure the low strings will be great I do not know if you might encounter high end trouble. If your guitar is really bright the Emerald bridge might have issues, hard to tell. If it does not strike you as bright though it is quite likely to work. It is still on the brighter side, but not shrill or thin.

Also I must then wonder how the balance with the neck PU will be in terms of voicing and output. It is hard to judge how output will compare with any of the BKP range, also because with all that clarity of BKPs they seem to eat gain. It is wonderful and you will love it, but it can screw with interaction. So if you already roll down the volume on the neck a lot this might throw things off even more. Also depeding on how dark the neck is the balance with an Emerald bridge might be thrown off.
I just feel BKPs do not combine super well with other makers as then the contrast really becomes apparent....so even if you mix I recon you will eventually get a neck BKP too ;)

Not saying this must happen, but they are things that are worth concidering.

A bit more ballsy and modern than the Emerald but still along the same vain and working well with these very low strings the Rebel Yell might also be worth a look for you. Glorious pickup.

[Dave Sloven]

I would avoid Warpigs in an 8-string.

You would be better off with a brighter, tighter pickup like an Emerald or Rebel Yell

I also know someone who is happy with Aftermaths in his eight string.

[Fulgrim]

Hi and welcome mate!

The Emerald sure is absolute ace in extended range guitars. It is bright and clear, thus keeping your low strings tight and defined, likely more than you can imagine. Our dear Nolly used to praise the Emerald for modern metal, especially in extended range guitars for a reason. It will also give you a great character as it is between modern and vintage. More open than most modern metal PUs and just more of that old goodness without the drawbacks. Really all you could want I recon.

Thanks for the welcome.
The Emerald had been my first choice, basically for all the reasons you outlined in your post. People suggest the Black Dog as a great choice in ERGs but for me it doesn't have enough output, so the Emerald seems like the best balance of power and clarity.
As for the character of basswood, I'm not really sure. I wouldn't say it was overly harsh sounding but it's certainly much brighter than the mahogany set-neck baritone sixer that I've also got.
I've actually thought of the Rebel Yell before because of it's higher output and more modern character (actually it was described to me as being like an underwound Nailbomb, and I love the sound of the Nailbomb in my friend's seven-string) but I was advised that it might be very trebly and harsh-sounding in basswood with a bolt-on, since it's been designed for LP-style guitars which are obviously much darker.

I don't mind a bit of high-end for clarity but I wouldn't want anything icepick-y.

As to the neck pickup, ultimately it's my intention to replace it as well, but right now I can't afford two BKPs. In addition I basically just use the neck for crunchy semi-cleans with the volume rolled back over halfway. I seldom play with the neck volume on full so balance isn't too much of a concern, also I think a BKP might be wasted there with the way I play.
I use dynamics a lot to get different tones, using volume pots and switching positions to go between clean, crunch and solid distortion, so I actually favour mismatched neck and bridge pups for more contrast.

I would avoid Warpigs in an 8-string.

You would be better off with a brighter, tighter pickup like an Emerald or Rebel Yell

I also know someone who is happy with Aftermaths in his eight string.

Aftermaths look interesting but I prefer alnico magnets over ceramic. I also think I'd prefer something more organic and less compressed.
Could you elaborate on why the Waarpig might not be a good choice?
I don't play (or even like) djent so I'm not after a tone like that at all, which is annoying just because a lot of the demos I've seen of people using eight-string BKPs seem to be aimed towards that sort of style.
I'm not even a metal player so I don't need loads of distortion, just something higher than the bridge enough to slam the preamp harder.
I prefer a more grainy, growly character in the mids which is why I'd been recommended the Warpig. It didn't seem like the most intuitive choice to me either but I'm trying to get ideas on it.


And does anyone have opinions or experience of the Holy Diver?
The description on the site makes it seem like a great choice, fat mids, warm bass and rich highs, plus it's designed with brighter guitars in mind. Seems to sound a bit like a Seymour Duncan JB which is a pickup that I quite like.


This is an example of my playing and tone, if that helps at all.

Apologies for the wall of text, I'm just trying to get in as much information as possible. As a broke student I can only afford one BKP and if I make the wrong choice I'll be stuck with it, which I'm really keen not to happen.

[Dave Sloven]

Warpigs are quite dark.  I took my alnico Warpig set out of my Explorer and replaced it with an alnico Nailbomb set as it was just too dark.  It is a six-string tuned to D standard.

Extended range guitars like yours tend to place a premium on tightness and mids with the lower strings.  The Rebel Yell, Emerald, and VHII (out of the alnico pickups) all have a good rep in 8 strings.  I'm not sure if the VHII bridge works well, but I've seen the VHII neck paired with the RY bridge before.

[Sarkasis]

I think any pickup can work in an 8 string. It just depends on all the other factors that make things work in a guitar tone, but especially what you expect out of the low string.

The Holydiver is pretty metal, not sure if it's what you're looking for for alt rock.

Note that the Emerald is said to be brighter than the Rebel Yell.

[Fulgrim]

I didn't know the Emerald was brighter than the Rebel Yell, that's good to know.
Must say I'm tempted by the Holy Diver, looks similar-ish to the Rebel Yell but not so bright and better for use in bolt-on guitars.
I've seen the Rebel Yell recommended and used in mahogany set-necks a lot, I'm just concerned that there might be too much high-end going on with a pickup like that plus a bright-ish sounding guitar.

What do you mean by 'pretty metal' for the Holy Diver though? Is that just in terms of output, or voicing as well?
If the pickup was hotter I could keep the gain lower and get a cleaner tone from the neck pickup.

Sorry for the repeated questions, I'm just trying to gather info to make the best decision.

[Sarkasis]

The HD has a focus and upper mid impact (due to the polysol wire) that's enough to make it ideal for late 80s metal while still sounding natural and organic in a way that ceramic pickups don't. If you were jamming out to Slayer the HD would be the first pickup I'd recommend, but for alt rock you might want to check other options first. Also note how light the wind is on the Holydiver neck, so while the bridge is hot enough for metal of any style it's not that "loud" in its output, so though it would be more versatile than something like an Aftermath I don't know if it has the dynamics you're looking for.

I guess it just depends on the kind of focus or intensity you want in your tone for what you do. Have you considered the Black Dog or Abraxas? They would be more versatile for lower-gain applications.

[Kiichi]

The HD has a focus and upper mid impact (due to the polysol wire) that's enough to make it ideal for late 80s metal while still sounding natural and organic in a way that ceramic pickups don't. If you were jamming out to Slayer the HD would be the first pickup I'd recommend, but for alt rock you might want to check other options first. Also note how light the wind is on the Holydiver neck, so while the bridge is hot enough for metal of any style it's not that "loud" in its output, so though it would be more versatile than something like an Aftermath I don't know if it has the dynamics you're looking for.

I guess it just depends on the kind of focus or intensity you want in your tone for what you do. Have you considered the Black Dog or Abraxas? They would be more versatile for lower-gain applications.

I must add to this before confusion arises. Yes the HD has upper mids in the voicing, but it is not upper mid heavy. That can be said about the Rebel Yell which has a really great and prominent upper mid scream. With the HD it is an integral part of the voicing, but much less upfront and agressive than with the RY. It is more of a center and low mid combination that defines the HD. I am still trying to figure out the proper words to describe this, but to someone like me who grew up with 70s and 80s rock sounds it feels warm, old school roary, progressive and just like home.

The HD is 80s rock and metal sound, the one with the more musically rounded high end and a certain roar. The RY is 80s too, but more of that screaming high mid hair metal sound if you compare them.

[Dave Sloven]

I always think of the difference between them like this:

HD = Whitesnake
RY = Ratt

Is that pretty close?

[Sarkasis]

I think instead of trying to go for a "louder" bridge, the more practical solution would be to choose the bridge pickup that gets the sound you like in general and then use a boost. Maybe that's a Holydiver or Warpig, but I would consider the clean tones you're going for and make a judgment from there.

[Fulgrim]

I guess it just depends on the kind of focus or intensity you want in your tone for what you do. Have you considered the Black Dog or Abraxas? They would be more versatile for lower-gain applications.

I emailed BKP with this same question before posting on the forums, and was advised against the Abraxas because the Alnico IV magnet might not have enough power for the low F#.
I'm also wary of the Black Dog because of it's low output, although it's tone chart makes it look appealing.

HD = Whitesnake
RY = Ratt

Hmm, I'm not a fan of either of those bands.
The tone I'm after is sort of Deftones-ish, but more open and not so compressed. Stef Carpenter from Deftones uses EMGs though, which have a quality I'm not really after.

I think instead of trying to go for a "louder" bridge, the more practical solution would be to choose the bridge pickup that gets the sound you like in general and then use a boost. Maybe that's a Holydiver or Warpig, but I would consider the clean tones you're going for and make a judgment from there.

That's not the way I approach gain and dynamics, I prefer to be able to control it all from the guitar using pickups and volume. I've modded my guitar to have a volume for each pickup rather than a master (which I find invaluable to do) and I change the tone by switching pickups, playing with volume and altering picking dynamics.
I also don't really play clean, and never with the bridge pickup. The clean tones I get always have at least a hint of grit to them, in varying degrees based on songs, and I get that from the neck pup with the volume back.
That way I can go from almost-clean to full distortion by switching from neck to bridge, or get a lower gain from the blend of both in the middle position.

This is an example of my tone, from a demo to a track I'll soon be recording. Basically, I'm after a pickup for the bridge that can do this but 'bigger', I guess.

https://soundcloud.com/confusual/like-yesterday-demo

Thanks to everyone for input and suggestions as well.

[Sarkasis]

It sounds like the Holydiver would work for you.