New versatile pickups for SG Standard. Double p90 or p90 +HB?

[Tomi]

Hello folks!

I´m about to get my first BKP pu´s and as I´ve spent hours and hours of trying to decide which to choose, I´m still a bit confused :)
So, I mailed the BKP staff and while waiting their answer I thought, why not ask the opinions also in here.

My guitar is Gibson SG Standard (atm SD SH-2 and JB). With our band we are trying to mix a very versatile styles in our own music.
Basically we are quite heavy riffing rock band, but we´re going from funky and bluesy stuff to heavy stoner /sludgy /doomy type of things.
Our main focus is in kinda Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin style riffing added with some a bit heavier stoner stuff.
My amp atm is Engl Powerball which isn´t really the best one for more vintage sounds, but it can do some and it also has a great clean channel for getting distortions from pedals if needed.

I´ve always liked single coils (my other guitar is a strat with texas specials), but now I need whole lotta more power. I guess p90 at least in neck position would suit me well. Neck MQ or Nantucket maybe?

The bridge is more difficult. Dunno if I should go for a humbucker or some of the p90s? Supermassive sounds really good to my ears from the clip. I´m often using quite heavy fuzz and effects and one concern for me is the unwanted noise of p90 compared to HB. Dunno if that is a real problem after all.

From HB section which one would you recommend for my needs? Also which p90 would you recommend supermassive, stockholm or even pig 90?

The important thing for me when going heavier stuff, I really don´t like the scooped and sophisticated metal sounds. I like it dirty and rauncy while still meaty. So a very meaty p90 or a very unsophisticated and raunchy HB.
I need a versatile setup able to go from beautiful cleans to very dirty distortion.

What do you think? Any recommendations are very much appreciated. :)

And sorry for a damn long first post :D

[Kiichi]

Hi and welcome mate. You think this a long post...I aprechiate that thought. =)

Ok, a SG, versatile, like single coils. Very important question, what is it routed for? P90s or humbuckers?

Moving on from that, one thing I can say without a doubt in my mind is that you should get MQ/Nantucket (pretty much the same just one HSP90 and one P90) neck just as you thought. Do I even need to explain why? Short version: Loves SGs, sings, screams, and is utterly wonderful.

For the bridge I am not quite as sure, but to be honest I can really see a P90 working here too. I personally would either go MQ here as well or Supermassive. Probably actually MQ. Thing is that the MQ can handle bonkers amounts of abuse. After all it is the main Muse pickup, so believe it can handle gain (p90s handle gain, and especially fuzz, like champs). Classic, suprisingly powerful and open rock sound, incredible versatility (a lot down to just insane definition) and working in SGs (picky guitar after all)? Win in my book.
All in all I always feel like bridge P90s are massivly underestimated.

I would also combine that with at least one push pull poti to put the middle in series and maybe a second one to add out of phase wiring for the middle too (put it in so you can put the out of phase middle in series or parallel).


In terms of hum, yeah you get more, but not as much as you think, especially with HSP90s (metal covers shielding). To a certain extend it always is part of the feel when going for that true feel. If I just want metal/brutalz I engage my noisegate and be good (sustain loss, but quiet). Depends on how much you mind hum. For me I can like a certain degree of it.

[Dave Sloven]

I have a Stockholm in the bridge of my SG Junior and it can go pretty heavy.  I wouldn't have any qualms about a Stockholm set in an SG with two pickups.

They can screech a bit though when playing through my high-gain Peavey amp, especially if in a cramped environment where you have to stand fairly close.  I've been adding shielding paint and a harness made of shielded military-grade wire to hopefully reduce that.  It worked on my Explorer (which used to do the same before I shielded it, when it had a Warpig set), so hopefully it will work on this one.  Also remember to cut a bit of the thin foam in the pickup box and put it on the bottom of the cavity.  That can also help as long as you don't use too much and interfere with the height adjustment.

I don't know if the Stockholm is exactly what you are looking for - it might be a bit 'modern' to reproduce '60s or '70s sounds - but this clip of a Epiphone 50th Anniversary SG with Supermassives (which are basically lower-output versions of the Stockholm) is encouraging.

You might want to ask BKP if they can do a Supermassive wind for the neck pickup for better cleans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pG2Rg4duI

The other guitarist in my band has the stock version of this guitar and personally I think these Supermassives kill what he has in there, but he's too cheap to upgrade it  :lol:

Also, see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3BX0wgwypQ

I'd also add this in case you decide to go humbucker:

Any of the BKP P-90s will work.  I'm not sure why, but they do. SGs are much more picky about humbuckers.

Avoid any humbucker with strong mids and low mids, like an alnico Nailbomb or a Painkiller.  You don't have to worry about a pickup being 'scooped'.  The SG has a natural mid hump so when you add a scooped pickup to that the guitar fills out the scoop and everything ends up nice an balanced.  I have a Cold Sweat in my SG Standard and it works beautifully.  I had an A-Bomb in there (before I moved it to my Explorer) and it was awful, no versatility, very nasal and awful for Sabbath (good for AC/DC though, but it could only do that, the Exploited, Poison Idea, etc). The Miracle Man is another scooped pickup that is perfect for SGs.  The C-Pig also works well in SGs.  Most of the great clips I've seen of a C-Pig have been in an SG.  A ceramic Nailbomb will also, from what I have heard, work okay.  Otherwise go for a low output one like a Riff Raff.

Avoid the Holy Diver and Crawler (they have a reputation for muddiness in SGs).  I would also probably avoid most of the Vintage Hot range.  Maybe the VHII would work, but I'm not sure.  I'd steer clear of the others.

The Mississippi Queen neck and Riff Raff bridge combo works well.

I'm assuming that your SG Standard has humbuckers as all Standards besides the 2012 P-90 Standard do, and you have a JB in there at present.

[Telerocker]

If you want to play also funk and blues, I would go MQ/Nantucket. I can see a Rebel Yell - the edge between vintage and modern - working in the bridge, paired with a MQ/Nantucket-neck.

[Dave Sloven]

If you want to play also funk and blues, I would go MQ/Nantucket. I can see a Rebel Yell - the edge between vintage and modern - working in the bridge, paired with a MQ/Nantucket-neck.

Heket installed a RY in her SG and found it somewhat lacking in bass.  SGs don't have a lot of bottom end, and if you are looking for that you might be disappointed.  Personally I don't think it would be an issue with my amp and cab, but she has a small home amp.

[Telerocker]

If you want to play also funk and blues, I would go MQ/Nantucket. I can see a Rebel Yell - the edge between vintage and modern - working in the bridge, paired with a MQ/Nantucket-neck.

Heket installed a RY in her SG and found it somewhat lacking in bass.  SGs don't have a lot of bottom end, and if you are looking for that you might be disappointed.  Personally I don't think it would be an issue with my amp and cab, but she has a small home amp.

Yeah, depends on guitar, amp and cab.

[Tomi]

Wow, pretty damn good information from all of you guys! And very helpful video clips. Thank You!

Seems like two p90s could be just the thing as this isn´t the first time when I hear people saying that SG and p90 loves each other.
The only real reasons for me to think about the bridge humbucker are the noise and the fact that I haven´t had p90s earlier so I guess I´m a bit afraid..of...something.. :D
Maybe I´m still thinking that they will lack some balls of the HB, even though I´m starting to be convinced these babies wont have that problem.

Have to wait also the suggestions from BKP crew, but it strongly seems to be MQ for the neck at least.
And yeah the guitar is wired for humbuckers, so for example for Supermassive I have to ask if it´s possible to make it humbucker sized. Stockholm seems to be /sounds to be pretty close one also. I think pig 90 might be too hot for my purposes.
From humbucker selection I was thinking maybe Black Dog could be good, but seems like it might not be the best solution for an SG?

Also thank you Kiichi for the tips about out of phase and series /parallel wiring. I have a little bit of an idea what I want things to sound, but when it comes to technical things like wiring, pots and stuff, I´m not at my strongest area to say the least :D

[Kiichi]

Also thank you Kiichi for the tips about out of phase and series /parallel wiring. I have a little bit of an idea what I want things to sound, but when it comes to technical things like wiring, pots and stuff, I´m not at my strongest area to say the least :D

yep, will be interesting to hear what our BKP folks say. There are possibilities for the bridge and there a HB that are wonderful in SGs, I just don´t know which one would work properly with a MQ neck, which I again have no doubt is for you.

I am more and more getting into wiring stuff. I am more of a tweaker than a player unfortunentally, but sometimes it comes in handy. If you were to go double push pull (not an easy rewire but not hard either I feel) you would get a proper extra amount of switches. You have the three basic positions, plus three extra. The series middle essentially puts both p90s together to form a lovely super humbucker.  The out of phase creates a distinctive, classic sound. You could either have that in the normal way, which is mostly used for cleaner sounds for the output drop, or again in series, which gives back output and can make it a really cool distorted but low gain option.

With HBs you might have the extra split options, but I also always feel that P90s have a larger usable range with the vol and tone pot, making more than up for it. Again, though, there certainly also are good bridge HBs for you.

I do not know what kind of balls you want, but I have not had a lack of them in P90s yet. They have the response of SCs with the fatness of HBs, but going lower and higher than they do. The mids have a unique growl and are more open and less thick than most HBs. They can sing or scream depeding on vol and tone knobs. These are a looooot more important when using P90s.

If you were to go for P90s I would also highly recommend you try 50s wiring. Treble bleed alternative and changes the tapers of the knobs. Takes a bit of adjustment, but I feel that when you make use of the knobs this is worth it. The range and effect seem smoother and better to me.

[Dave Sloven]

The only thing I'd say against traditional P-90s is that through a high-gain amp with plenty of mids like my Peavey 6534+ they can be quite shrill.  They sound lovely through my friends Laney Lionheart though.

The Stockholm - and I assume the Supermassive too, as it's EQ curve is very similar - doesn't have that issue.

The Stockholm in mine is actually a regular P-90 format, as you can see in my avatar. Apparently this can be done in reverse too, a Supermassive in the humbucker format, but I'd ask Ben nicely ;)

The kind of music I play with my Stockholm is generally '80s style hardcore, especially the D-beat (Discharge style) stuff at the moment, in the heavier mode like Doom, Extinction of Mankind, Hellkrusher, etc.  The SG Junior was set up to work together with my Nailbomb-equipped Explorer, and I use both in that band, as backups for one another and maybe eventually specific ones for specific songs.  I hope that gives you a clearer idea.

The Cold Sweat set equipped SG Standard I have is used for rock and metal, right up to say Celtic Frost and '80s Slayer.  It is also great for Pantera.  It does a very nice 'Victim of Changes' too

[PhilKing]

I put Nantuckets into my 72 55 LP Special and they sound great.  They are voiced around the LP Junior pickup, which is one of my favourites.  I have Rebel Yells in my PRS Standard (which is all mahogany) and they work well in that.  I have Cold Sweats in BC Rich Mockingbird, which is also all mahogany, but has the full BC Rich preamp and switching.  It really sounds great but I know some of that is the switches (series/parallel and phase, as well as a 6-way tone switch).   

[metale]

I agree with a MQ set. Personally I would not pair a MQ with a Riff Raff since it nearly overpowered my Black Dog bridge.

[Tomi]

Hi and thanks again for your input, it´s been really helpful!
I got also mail from Chris from BKP and it´s pretty much the same suggestions as you folks have adviced.

Calibrated MQ set was the first suggestion and another solution for the bridge could be Supermassive. With SM Bridge I think I could achieve even wider range of versatility as we mainly do quite vintage stuff, but also mixing more modern sounds in there.
Neck pickup seems to be MQ for sure. I still have to think a little bit, if I go for a MQ or SM to bridge.
Getting close as there´s only two options now which I´m pretty sure I like both.

Now I´ll ask another questions about something which I´m not familiar at all.
I´ll go for two 500k push/pull potis for out of phase and series/parallel options. I guess 500k is the right value for these type of pickups?
Another thing is capacitors. I have no idea what kind of capacitors there are in SG standard with humbuckers and should I buy new ones?
Thank you in advance for helping a dummy :D

[Dave Sloven]

I've had a new harness made for my SG Junior with the single Stockholm.  If it works out I'll let you know the precise specs, but it is 500K pots with a 0.033uf cap and a treble bleed.  I don't know the specs on the latter and would have to check