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Author Topic: NAD: New Ampeg Day  (Read 6817 times)

Dmoney

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NAD: New Ampeg Day
« on: July 18, 2014, 09:49:08 AM »

Got this little fella a while ago and people don't often post about these kinds of things so I thought I'd break my silence and little and drop this number on the folks here.

I picked up an late-ish 70's Ampeg VT22 combo (the combo version of the V4). This has the master volume as well as a couple of little changes from the earliest versions. The switches across the top are common the models. -9 -6 or 0dB input sensitivity for each channel, 'Ultra High' switch, which is sort of like a three position bright switch (in a way), and lastly the active mid circuit which offers a great deal of cut & boost at 300Hz, 1000Hz or 3000Hz. The bass and treble dials are a passive circuit. The amp uses some odd valves like the 6K11 triple triode and a 6CG7 as a reverb driver. The schematic also calls for a 12DW7 which is like a single 12AU7 triode on one side and 12AX7 triode on the other.

I could tell there were a few issues on playing it when I picked it up. 100Hz hum that usually signifies something wrong with the filtering and channel 1 has no gain. I'm part way through a cap job and I think I found the gain problem straight away (bad valve). However, the amp sounded good when I picked it up. Maybe the headroom isn't what it should be but the reverb is CRAZY! just sounds massive and swirly. Anyway... looking forward to getting this back to being healthy and then leaving it and never moving it anywhere! 40Kg is a LOT for a combo.





dave_mc

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2014, 05:55:13 PM »
Nice  :grin:

Wow 40kg, that's really heavy, I'm not pleased when things get much over 20kg... :laugh:

Telerocker

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2014, 09:42:13 PM »
Great catch if you can lift it. :wink: How does it sound?
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

Dmoney

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 10:53:42 PM »

Its a bit poorly.

The input 12AX7 on channel one was half dead (checked it with a orange valve tester) and some of the filter caps are bad. Channel 2 works fine and it's identical to channel one... i mean fine other than the power filtering that effects the whole amp.

I think when it's working 100% it'll have more headroom and less hum but as it was it sounded decent. My nailbombs would push it to breakup on the 0dB input setting and I could clean up be switching that to -6dB or -9dB. The active mid circuit is really cool and what I got the amp for, really. It actually has a bunch of circuits in it that you don't find in other stuff (not in marshall or fender based amps). It's meant to be an all round bass & guitar kind of head. The mid circuit lets you get some really "different" tones with a guitar. I like it a lot. The reverb is crazy though. at about 9 oclock on the dial you get a jump from a little reverb to absolute cavernesque style reverb, but it sounds really good... even with poor filtering. Really looking forward to hearing it fixed. It's meant to be a 100watt amp but I bet its way more than that at the 10% total harmonic distortion lots of people measure guitars amps at. Their rep is for being brutally loud across a wide audio bandwidth. The output transformer is huge! Definitely meant to be used clean. Would probably make a great amp to take pedals.

Unfortunately the amp uses a 6K11 and a 6CG7 valve and the main filter caps are 40uf+100uf dual cans caps, like the big blue ones you find in marshalls but much less common values. I've decided to pay a bit more and get some like for like replacements but the normal cost effective way to fixed the caps is to install singles or make an extra board to house the new filter caps. Bit of a pain. So yeah... its a cool design and it sounds great, but at the cost of it being a potential nightmare to maintain.


Telerocker

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 12:04:05 AM »
Seems that a total renovation doesn't pay of in terms or resale value.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

Dmoney

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 01:55:39 AM »
maybe not. depends on what you pay I guess. It's not really a total renovation though. Its just electrolytic caps, and I could probably get away without changing all of them. My meter shows that 2 absolutely need changing, but in total there are only four multi-section caps.

It would be worse if it had fried resistors, a damaged OT, or if the valves were all toast but really its the kind of thing that just slowly happens over time, and if you own an amplifier for a long period of time like 20 or 30 years, as the caps go bad it probably happens so slowly that you adjust to the change in sound and in your mind it never sounds any different. On the positive side the 7027A output valves test ok, and those would be very expensive to replace. It has the original Magnavox branded ones from when magnavox bought Ampeg. The 6K11 is fine, so is the 6CG7. One 12AX7 is bad. so really its 4 big filter caps and 4 small caps in that sit in the bias supply and the preamp. If I recapped it with singles its probably less then 30 or 40 quid in nice capacitors and it would work fine... I just fancied splashing out. I have spare 12AX7's kicking about so thats no big deal. I knew it would have some issue when I got it. I'd say most amps from the 70's would probably benefit from a cap job these days if they are still running the originals. I'm making it sound worse than it is.

Resale value is a good point though. If an amp is "your baby" sometimes you might want to go all out on parts. If you're fixing something up just to sell it and you want to make the maximum amount of cash back, maybe that would be the wrong idea. 

Philly Q

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 09:20:47 AM »
Anyway... looking forward to getting this back to being healthy and then leaving it and never moving it anywhere! 40Kg is a LOT for a combo.

40kg?!!  :shocked:  That's more than two thirds of my body weight.

Since you mentioned picking it up three times already, I should think you need to get yourself back to being healthy!  :wink:

Anyway, sounds like an interesting catch.  The amp tech talk is all Greek to me but I know you enjoy your amp projects, have fun getting it sorted out! 

BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Dmoney

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 09:44:35 AM »
I actually did put a twinge in my back lifting in into my brothers car! Shipping it from Liverpool way back to London was nerve wracking. The chassis is actually mounted on some rudimentary shock absorbers and the reverb tank has a 'reverb lock' that locks the springs in place in transit. So when it is time to move it around you probably are way more likely to damage your body than anything in the amp.


Philly Q

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 10:02:32 AM »
Quote
Gazing upon the inevitable soccer field of human emotion; Devotion; stands alone on the sidelines of posterity.

What?!

And then my eyes stopped working.  Oh for an HD monitor.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Dmoney

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 10:04:00 AM »
I know what you mean! I think I just blinded myself trying to read that.

after a google...
"Gazing upon the inevitable soccer field of human emotion; Devotion; stands alone on the sidelines of posterity. It cannot be seen with the eye; or seized with the hand; but peel away the ever changing; chromeplated; vinyilized skin of obscurity; and there. . . There it is; as perpetually melodic as the bosom of mother nature herself; yet: quiet as unlit dynamite - Motionlessly waiting to perform the one and only purpose of its hundred watted existence; and that is; to serve. It is said that devotion cannot be bought or sold. We happen to think differently."

Now that is how to sell a product!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 10:06:47 AM by Dmoney »

Philly Q

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 10:22:08 AM »
Weren't the '70s great?!  :grin:

The wacky picture even looks like it was drawn by someone who sort of understood what they were doing (as far as I can tell).  Like maybe the artist was an Ampeg employee rather than just some bod at an advertising agency.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Dmoney

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 10:43:21 AM »

I was actually just thinking to myself how much I like that advert. I know what you mean about how it's drawn.

I was just trying to figure out what the parts were. I can see the valves and transformers. The faces in various degrees on contortion seem to be part of the input sensitivity switches, and that stack of 3 weird things is the 'ultra high' switch, and the bizarre mushroom looking things have something to do with the mid circuit. crazy.

The guy who i got it off also gave me a review of a VT22 from back when they came out. It's really interesting and a fair bit more technical than any magazine review I read growing up. Just the comparison in writing style is interesting. 70's guitar mags are before my time though, so i cant compare. ha

Philly Q

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 12:56:26 PM »
The guy who i got it off also gave me a review of a VT22 from back when they came out. It's really interesting and a fair bit more technical than any magazine review I read growing up. Just the comparison in writing style is interesting. 70's guitar mags are before my time though, so i cant compare. ha

I've been reading Guitar Player since the very early '80s.  I don't remember the gear reviews specifically, but I do recall that guitar magazines in general had a whole lot more text and a whole lot fewer pictures!  The interviews were really in depth and took ages to read.   On the downside of that, a lot of it was quite tedious detail about strings and picks and things, nowadays I prefer to get more of an insight into the player's personality and music.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

gwEm

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 02:16:08 PM »
Well I must say this post has all kinds of cool aspects to it. Have enjoyed going through it all. Congrats on the new amp. Ampeg is so rock!
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gordiji

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Re: NAD: New Ampeg Day
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2014, 03:45:20 PM »
Congrats. I thought my fender twin reverb held the weight record at 37kg & that was 100ish watts. I'm i right assuming this beast is only 22W, or 2kg/W ?