Are Black Hawks 'hotter' than the Duncan SH-6?

[p4vl]

Does the Black Hawk Ceramic actually drive an amp harder than the SH6?

I have an Ampeg VL 503 that I use as a head into a 2x12 with Eminence V12's but I'm finding that even with an OD and RFT 12ax7 in V1 & TungSol 12ax7's in the preamp slots for the 3rd channel, it's still a bit muddy and lacking gain. 

Another question:  I bought the Eminence V12's to go with my XXX and they do actually get rid of high gain fizz but the Ampeg VL series were designed to be used with V30's (which I hate).  Should I replace the V12's with a couple of WGS V30 clones? 

And do the WGS Veteran 30/Retro 30's suffer from the same bedroom volume fizz that the Celestions do?

[Dave Sloven]

Pretty much anything sucks at bedroom volumes, at least if you are talking about amps and speakers designed to be played at gigging volume.  I know my Peavey 6534+ and 4x V30 cab does.  You end up cranking the presence, which only makes the fizz worse.

One issue you probably experience with V30s if they are never used at gigging volume is that they have never been properly broken in.  I pussied around with my amp on 1 for months and the speakers always sounded like shite. Then I started (following a fellow guitarist's advice) playing with my amp on 3 whenever the neighbours either side were all out (maybe easier where I live) and then and only then did the speakers break in properly.  They sound great now, but you still need to crank the presence if playing on low volumes.

My amp sounds brutal on 3 and above, okay on 2 with some presence cranked, and listenable on 1 with the presence and resonance right up.  For good bedroom volume performance you really need a little practice amp like the Iommi 15W Laney.  Even my Classic 30 sounds cr@ppy until you crank it to around 5.

Or maybe my ears are just shot?? 

[JimmyMoorby]

The black hawk will drive your amp that bit harder.

I've been fortunate that my last 2 amps a rockerverb and a 5150 iii both sound ace at low volumes

[Yellowjacket]

A big part of the issue with terrible low volume tone is a lack of proper speaker excursion.  I find for smaller stuff, I have a great sounding 1 x 12 I use.  It's the Mesa RA 27" 1 x 12.  It's wide enough to match Mesa's slightly shorter headshells and it gives a surprisingly great result from about 83db and up. 

[p4vl]

I understand that playing at bedroom volume puts, to put it mildly, limits on tone.  The V12's sound better than my old v30's at low volume and changed my tone more than changing pickups.  I don't know why the V12's sound better at low volume, they're double the wattage of a v30.

I'm not in a position to crank the amp and break the speakers in and that isn't going to change in the foreseeable future.  I've had health problems for a long time, so I'm not in a position to join a band (long boring story). 

Good to know that the Black Hawk won't be a lateral move in terms of output. 

[p4vl]

A big part of the issue with terrible low volume tone is a lack of proper speaker excursion.  I find for smaller stuff, I have a great sounding 1 x 12 I use.  It's the Mesa RA 27" 1 x 12.  It's wide enough to match Mesa's slightly shorter headshells and it gives a surprisingly great result from about 83db and up.

Thanks for the recommendation but I stick to closed back cabs.  The Thiele is tempting. 

[Toe-Knee]

I understand that playing at bedroom volume puts, to put it mildly, limits on tone.  The V12's sound better than my old v30's at low volume and changed my tone more than changing pickups.  I don't know why the V12's sound better at low volume, they're double the wattage of a v30.

I'm not in a position to crank the amp and break the speakers in and that isn't going to change in the foreseeable future.  I've had health problems for a long time, so I'm not in a position to join a band (long boring story). 

Good to know that the Black Hawk won't be a lateral move in terms of output. 

The v12s sound loads better at any volume than a v30 imho. All the benefits without the nasal mids and fizzy high end.

I think a better upgrade for your particular setup would be a tubescreamer of some kind.

[Yellowjacket]

A big part of the issue with terrible low volume tone is a lack of proper speaker excursion.  I find for smaller stuff, I have a great sounding 1 x 12 I use.  It's the Mesa RA 27" 1 x 12.  It's wide enough to match Mesa's slightly shorter headshells and it gives a surprisingly great result from about 83db and up.

Thanks for the recommendation but I stick to closed back cabs.  The Thiele is tempting.

I've used a Thiele and I used to have one.  It's really a giant killer cab.  It sounds kind of weird and boxy in the room but it sits well in a mix and it sounds absolutely enormous for a 1 x 12.  The greatest strength is how big it sounds for a  compact design and as such, it works best with the 200watt EV12L it was designed to work with.  The purpose is for the Thiele to stand in lieu of a 4 x 12.

The RA 27" 1 x 12 is a surprisingly tight and great sounding cab which sounds more open and less boxy. similar to a larger cab.  It has a huge, crunchy tone which really colours the speaker in a pleasing way.  Highs and mids are detailed, and the lows are huge, clear, and open.   I've got great results both live and recorded with it.  I wouldn't make so much noise but I believe it to be the single best sounding 1 x 12 I've ever heard, period.   The only downside is that it is large for a 1 x 12, after all it is the same box as the RA 2 x 12 but with a different baffle. 

[dave_mc]

Another question:  I bought the Eminence V12's to go with my XXX and they do actually get rid of high gain fizz but the Ampeg VL series were designed to be used with V30's (which I hate).  Should I replace the V12's with a couple of WGS V30 clones? 

I haven't tried them with the xxx but the v12s sound (to my ears, and at low volumes) like kind of mellower V30s. They kind of sound a bit like more broken-in V30s out of the box (though they also have a bit more of that "Eminence" type of tone to them, as well). They're a bit quieter too (they have a smaller magnet, and that's despite what eminence lists their sensitivity as!).

I haven't tried the WGS V30 clones- I think they have two different types, one supposedly a more "improved" V30, and one more of a straighter clone. As I said, though, I haven't tried them.

If the V12s do what you want I probably wouldn't bother.

[Yellowjacket]

In my experience, WGS speakers are great.