Aggressive Alnico IV Pickup.... is there such thing!?!!

[darkbluemurder]

So what about the VHII makes you think so, compared to the other options? I've never done a swap, but know you can buy magnets direct from mojotone....

The VHII bridge was the most aggressive BK humbucker I tried, right there with the Nailbomb and before the Miracle Man, Cold Sweat and Rebel Yell. In the guitar I had it in it had a bit of a mid dip which is what the A4 could balance out to some extent. Keep in mind that I did not try this mod as I could not keep the VHII bridge long enough. I guess you read my review of it - it was the only BKP humbucker I did not like in stock form.

And i assume the output would remain the same, as it's directly dependent on the wind, correct? (8.9-9.2k is literally perfect for me)

A weaker magnet would lower the output somewhat but that is not necessarily an A5 - A4 thing. A degaussed A5 would also give you lower output compared to a fully charged A5.

I fully agree with you that the Abraxas bridge is a great pickup but aggressive it's not. Smooth, creamy and round come to mind when I think of Abraxas.

Cheers Stephan

[Yellowjacket]

Well if a rebel yell rated along the lines of 7/8/8 in a guitar, then I'd hate to see what a warpig or miracle man would yeild! Somewhere in the teens, perhaps? Hahaha. ;)

The bass would be over nine thousand in that guitar. 

[gepetto33]

The VHII bridge was the most aggressive BK humbucker I tried, right there with the Nailbomb and before the Miracle Man, Cold Sweat and Rebel Yell. In the guitar I had it in it had a bit of a mid dip which is what the A4 could balance out to some extent. Keep in mind that I did not try this mod as I could not keep the VHII bridge long enough. I guess you read my review of it - it was the only BKP humbucker I did not like in stock form.

Wow... ok. I would have thought the Black Dog would be the most aggressive BK in that range, though i have never tried the VHII. It probably has the most mids (unless i'm mistaken) so i don't know how the BD might react to an Alnico IV. Probably would darken too much is what i would guess.

A weaker magnet would lower the output somewhat but that is not necessarily an A5 - A4 thing. A degaussed A5 would also give you lower output compared to a fully charged A5.

I fully agree with you that the Abraxas bridge is a great pickup but aggressive it's not. Smooth, creamy and round come to mind when I think of Abraxas.

Cheers Stephan

If only there was some way to make it so. Not sure if i would receive any favorable input from Tim on the VHII magnet swap, as he has done the development work on all these pickups and likes to have them remain true to his original intentions. Might just dive in and see what happens... I just hope the sound stays bright enough with the AIV.

[darthphineas]

I mean, don't get me wrong.... i love the sound of the Abraxas. The Mule deserves a place in pickup history, as being among the best and most articulate PAF copies. But onto a new generation, where pickup sounds are becoming truly intrepid....

Is there such thing as an AGGRESSIVE, high upper mid-dy Alnico IV pickup? Is it even possible? The reason i ask is because that's the exact sound i'd like to hear, and feel there's a gap in the sound of vintage hot pickups - in BKP especially. This actually caused me to look elsewhere (non BKP) for replacing pickups in my darker Telecaster HH guitar.... Though i still ended up at Alnico V to find the sound.

Tell me your thoughts on this, along with your experience using Alnico IV's (Abraxas, Mules, some real PAF's)......

the magnet is just part of the process.  for example, a typical A5 has a little more output and can have sharper lows and highs...where a typical A4 would have a less output than an A5 and a flatter EQ response than an A5.

all that says nothing for the other components or the way the pickup is wound.  then again, it also depends on what a person's idea of "agressive" might be.

for my own experience, I have generally used A4 magnets in neck pickups.  too many models have A5s and I find that they can be a little boomy or woofy or muddy for my ears.  when I've put an A4 in something like that, it can really balance it out and make the same pickup much more workable for my goals.

at the end of the day, I'm not a winder and I don't know as much as a winder does about how all the components work together with each other....just a wee bit from tinkering around.  lol!  if I have a comfortable rapport with a winder that I trust, the magnet or the wire is not of much concern to me.  let them know the tone you want and let them work the magic.

[gepetto33]

all that says nothing for the other components or the way the pickup is wound.  then again, it also depends on what a person's idea of "agressive" might be.

for my own experience, I have generally used A4 magnets in neck pickups.  too many models have A5s and I find that they can be a little boomy or woofy or muddy for my ears.  when I've put an A4 in something like that, it can really balance it out and make the same pickup much more workable for my goals.

at the end of the day, I'm not a winder and I don't know as much as a winder does about how all the components work together with each other....just a wee bit from tinkering around.  lol!  if I have a comfortable rapport with a winder that I trust, the magnet or the wire is not of much concern to me.  let them know the tone you want and let them work the magic.

Which is why this forum works so great to bounce ideas around - We've all played on and are familiar with these pickups in different guitars, and can therefore discuss comparisons and options with each one.

This may be a situation where the character of AIV just doesn't do aggressive, but i wouldnt mind experimenting on something like a VHII or the like.

[darkbluemurder]

I fully agree with you that the Abraxas bridge is a great pickup but aggressive it's not. Smooth, creamy and round come to mind when I think of Abraxas.

If only there was some way to make it so. Not sure if i would receive any favorable input from Tim on the VHII magnet swap, as he has done the development work on all these pickups and likes to have them remain true to his original intentions. Might just dive in and see what happens... I just hope the sound stays bright enough with the AIV.

Another option could be a different magnet in the Abraxas bridge - A5 or even a ceramic but that would probably get it close to the Cold Sweat bridge.

Stock BKPs for a more aggressive sound and similar power as Abraxas bridge would be the Rebel Yell or Cold Sweat bridge pickups. Want more aggressiveness than these, go Nailbomb or VHII bridge. And - the VHII bridge is not lower in output than the Abraxas bridge due to the thicker wire used in the VHII.

Cheers Stephan

[Telerocker]

Yeah, VHII is nearly as hot as my Crawler.

[gepetto33]

Another option could be a different magnet in the Abraxas bridge - A5 or even a ceramic but that would probably get it close to the Cold Sweat bridge.

Stock BKPs for a more aggressive sound and similar power as Abraxas bridge would be the Rebel Yell or Cold Sweat bridge pickups. Want more aggressiveness than these, go Nailbomb or VHII bridge. And - the VHII bridge is not lower in output than the Abraxas bridge due to the thicker wire used in the VHII.

Cheers Stephan

Through the course of this search my lofty hopes/dreams about this golden goose "Aggressive Alnico IV" has dimmed a bit. In my scouring/digging i came across probably the most aggressive A4 that can be achieved - which was ironically right under my nose, haha. OX4 (which my store sells) makes a pickup called the "Hot Duane", and yeah it's clear and very high quality.... but could not be further from what i was looking for. No aggression in the mids, only just more crinkle-y, sizzle-y highs.... picture like an Abraxas with a paper-y, sizzle top end. Needless to be said i'd rather keep my Abraxas any day. It rules, it just ain't aggressive.

If the search is best left with Alnico V, then so be it. I trust Tim to affirm his pickups have the best voicing for what he has intended them to be..... especially since there's already multiple pickups he sells with multiple magnet options.

Of the other pickups you mentioned, i've actually tried them all except the VHII. The Cold Sweat was actually among those that went in and left a guitar within the same day... not what i'm looking for in the least. Anything remotely mid scooped isn't for me, which makes me think the VHII also isn't for me. Forum members whose opinion i trust highly told me as much, along with that the lows are very strong in the VHII - another thing I don't need, being as I'm tuned to C standard.

Seems like Alnico V will end up being the voicing for me, which fortunately has no shortage of the aggressive variety within the premium boutique makers. I've talked to Tim a few different times, and know i'm only going to be referred to things within his current lineup, and not offered any suggestion on custom ideas. I'm not let down by BKP in the least (and never will be)... i just know their emphasis is more on modern pickups than anything else (those outnumber the Vintage Hot options 2 to 1 anyways). Truth be told most companies these days are set up the same way... only with a different flavor spread of options. I'm just thinking my flavor lies elsewhere this time around.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, but i don't wanna skin (modify) a Bare Knuckle without Tim's input at the very least. Given his volume and intensity on his main work, i don't mind his lack of being receptive on the matter. And i don't mind looking elsewhere for the time being. 

[Kiichi]

i just know their emphasis is more on modern pickups than anything else (those outnumber the Vintage Hot options 2 to 1 anyways). Truth be told most companies these days are set up the same way... only with a different flavor spread of options.

Don´t forget that the "contemporary" definition is rather brought. I actually do not know what qualifies a pickup as such, but the Crawler, Holydiver, and Rebel Yell do not have that much in common with things like the Blackhawk and Juggernaut. The later are definetly contemporary, but the former could be placed in the vintage hot section almost. The contemporary section really kind of is two sections imho, because it both has pickups that are contemporary now and ones that would have been contemporary almost 40 years ago.

[Dave Sloven]

If you are prepared to do a magnet swap and want something really aggressive you could try an A4 mag in an A-Bomb.

No idea how it would sound but it would most likely be the most aggressive A4 pickup out there.

[gepetto33]

If you are prepared to do a magnet swap and want something really aggressive you could try an A4 mag in an A-Bomb.

No idea how it would sound but it would most likely be the most aggressive A4 pickup out there.

Yeah, along with myself i'm assuming most of the people on this board don't know the esoteric workings of pickup winding (where's feline guitars in this thread when you need him :P). More and more i'm thinking the magnet has a shiteload to do with the character, to where creating a mismatch is like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip - it just ain't happenin. Perhaps not though.

Like i said before.... not being aware of these inner workings myself they could certainly surprise me within the experimentation process... Which would be awesome. By your theory taking an already aggressive pickup (A-bomb) and placing an A4 magnet in it should yield an aggressive result. In that case, fuçk it... why stop there, when you could just go all the way and try that with a Painkiller. Hahah...

If we're already fighting the "subdued" aggressive effects of an Alnico IV magnet, then we might as well just use it on the most aggressive pickup BK makes and work back from there. 

[Yellowjacket]

The most 'aggressive' AII pickup I have tried is the Seymour Duncan Custom Custom.  It is really warm in the highs, squishy in the lows, and has amazing lead / solo tones for days.  Overwinding a weaker magnet yields a bit of a sloppy character to the tone which is really quite the opposite of what you want.

I wonder what a Painkiller would sound like if it has the hybrid ceramic / alnico V setup like a Juggernaut.  With the amount of fine tuning that goes into a pickup design, I would guess the immediate result may not be entirely favourable and may need to be tweaked a bit.

I'm still curious how you would get on with the Rebel Yell..  It's a pretty phenomenal pickup, especially in a dark guitar!

[gepetto33]

I wonder what a Painkiller would sound like if it has the hybrid ceramic / alnico V setup like a Juggernaut.  With the amount of fine tuning that goes into a pickup design, I would guess the immediate result may not be entirely favourable and may need to be tweaked a bit.

I'm still curious how you would get on with the Rebel Yell..  It's a pretty phenomenal pickup, especially in a dark guitar!

Well...

575 tone for the Rebel Yell Bridge?  Are you kidding me?  It was like a 3 8 7 in my Les Paul and it's more of a 7 8 8 or so in my very dark Godin LG.  It DEF has a lot of upper mids.  It sounds to me like you're encountering more of a guitar problem than a pickup problem, just my $0.05.

Hmmm... it seems you may have forgotten we had this conversation previously. Hahah!

Obviously i've tried them... and in that guitar it's definitely a no go. However, there's a chance it may work in my Jazzmaster, where i'm contemplating taking out the Abraxas. It's not quite as aggressive as i'd like to go, but has some great tonal qualities otherwise.

That hybrid magnet painkiller idea sounds very interesting....

[Yellowjacket]

HA!  Deja Vu.

You could pester BKP and see if they would try a hybrid ceramic / alnico V setup for a painkiller.  It may work, it may not. 
That tele sounds interesting.  Maybe you just need a more aggressive guitar?  Have you tried heavier strings and a thicker pick while playing? 

[gepetto33]

HA!  Deja Vu.

You could pester BKP and see if they would try a hybrid ceramic / alnico V setup for a painkiller.  It may work, it may not. 
That tele sounds interesting.  Maybe you just need a more aggressive guitar?  Have you tried heavier strings and a thicker pick while playing?

HAH! Truth be told, a different guitar might suit much better, but.... this guitar actually plays fuçkin awesome! So tragic...

My strings/gauges fit the tuning we play in, which is C standard/56-13. I have a pickup on the way from another manufacturer which i'm expecting to sound pretty good. I'm not even extremely worried about this guitar for the moment, my main focus of this thread was pondering the possibility of aggressive sounding A4 pickups. This was mainly sparked by me wishing the Abraxas sounded a little more grindy in my other guitar (Jazzmaster), after coming to terms it really isn't that kind of pickup.

I'm still going to keep a lookout for what might better serve that purpose.... It's out there somewhere, "i want to believe"! Tim has never come close to abiding a custom wind project for me, so i might refrain from asking for now... Though the ceramic/alnico painkiller does sound pretty rad.