Aggressive Alnico IV Pickup.... is there such thing!?!!

[gepetto33]

I mean, don't get me wrong.... i love the sound of the Abraxas. The Mule deserves a place in pickup history, as being among the best and most articulate PAF copies. But onto a new generation, where pickup sounds are becoming truly intrepid....

Is there such thing as an AGGRESSIVE, high upper mid-dy Alnico IV pickup? Is it even possible? The reason i ask is because that's the exact sound i'd like to hear, and feel there's a gap in the sound of vintage hot pickups - in BKP especially. This actually caused me to look elsewhere (non BKP) for replacing pickups in my darker Telecaster HH guitar.... Though i still ended up at Alnico V to find the sound.

Tell me your thoughts on this, along with your experience using Alnico IV's (Abraxas, Mules, some real PAF's)......

[Kiichi]

I must ask: Have you had a look at the Rebel Yell? Yes it is AV, but it is not that modern in sound. It can do that very well, but it is rooted in a more modern take on the 80s sound not loosing that old school heart. It really does have that upper mid spike like nothing else I´ve heard, but with the AV the low end stays tight enough, yet the wire and voicing keeps it from getting harsh in the high end since that is mostly harmonic overtones it seems.

[Telerocker]

RiffRaff, Emerald, Rebel Yell. All alnico V. AIV has usally a very good balance, but - in my experience with Mules - also a tad softer bass and sweeter treble, although the highs are definitely present. Maybe AIV is not the magnet for agressiveness.

[gepetto33]

I must ask: Have you had a look at the Rebel Yell? Yes it is AV, but it is not that modern in sound. It can do that very well, but it is rooted in a more modern take on the 80s sound not loosing that old school heart. It really does have that upper mid spike like nothing else I´ve heard, but with the AV the low end stays tight enough, yet the wire and voicing keeps it from getting harsh in the high end since that is mostly harmonic overtones it seems.

Definitely! It's been in that same guitar (spalted maple telecaster HH), and while it worked for a while... it just lacked the aggression i needed. I actually must disagree with you bit on the strong upper mid spike part... if perhaps only because it came across very calm in that guitar. Pre the official BK site charts (around 2010 or so), i took part in the forum EQ/Tone chart and rated it a 5/7/5 (bass/mid/treb). For comparison sake a Cold Sweat in the same guitar i rated 7/5/8.

If you have a les paul custom, or a brighter guitar the RY's mid spike might show up more.... but i would consider a strong upper mid spike to be along the lines of black dog or painkiller, more than the RY.  It's important to keep in mind this is a very dark guitar... so while singing MID-midrange was EXCELLENT, it's best qualities simply didn't show up. Unfortunate, but it would be good to find something that's more Black Dog style in terms of aggression, but less low mids. With the "singing" midrange of the RY and Abraxas. It should also be noted that i LOVE the black dog, it's just a slightly different beast i'm after currently.....

[Telerocker]

Sounds like Emeralds. Maybe you can do some about the darkness with different pots and capacitors.

[Kiichi]

Interesting stuff. Since I do not have personal experience with the BD or the PK I think I bette thake myself out of the conversation then and just watch it. Should be educational.

[gepetto33]

RiffRaff, Emerald, Rebel Yell. All alnico V.

Other than the Rebel Yell (which i've already had) these are all pickups i've considered at one time.

Riff Raff - Great pickup! Needed something just the slightest bit hotter, but knew Tim could not physically fit any more wire in. The pickup i did go with (non BKP) is essentially a RR, plus more aggression, plus more output.... and it's on it's way now.

Emerald - Truth be told i have never heard a clip of these that sounded good to me. Official, youtube clips, anywhere... Trust me, i've looked. The output specs and EQ ratings look good to me, there's just never been anything that's convinced me it was the sound i'm after. This is something i trust - the Black Dog clips sold me a pickup that's stayed in my guitar for 4 years strong.

Sure, i could take a chance and try any of these... although the downtime involved is what kills me. I'm not in the UK, so going back and forth with these could mean weeks of having a pickup-less guitar... which isn't something i can endure currently. Wrong or right, when a BKP enters my guitar i know what's going on.... there's been 3 or 4 that went in and left within a day, and a couple that haven't changed in 4 years. It pays off to be concise towards a goal in such an exploration.

Maybe AIV is not the magnet for agressiveness.

Exactly the input i'm searching for with this query. Is it not!?!! Because goddamnit that would be cool to have the best of both voicings.... Mids and more mids. Midageddon.

[Telerocker]

If you want more mids in the vintage(hot)range I can only think of the BD and the Abraxas. The middy BD still has quite some highs, where the - compared to the Mule - Abraxas has a rounder, but still chimey topend.

[darkandrew]

I've got an earlier version of the same guitar (pre SD) and the only pickups I could ever get any aggression with was the original Fender Atomic although Nailbombs came close.  I also tried Mules, an SD Custom 5 / Jazz combo and even an EMG 81/60 pairing  (amongst others) but I never found anything else that really works in this guitar - I put it down to the chambered mahogany body as much as anything else.

[gepetto33]

If you want more mids in the vintage(hot)range I can only think of the BD and the Abraxas. The middy BD still has quite some highs, where the - compared to the Mule - Abraxas has a rounder, but still chimey topend.

I'm not sure if you've read the entirety of this thread or not. Maybe give a glance back through and we'll all be on the same page ;).

Edit: Unless you just wanted to re-mention pickups i own and are already familiar very with! hahah. Cheers.

[Yellowjacket]

I must ask: Have you had a look at the Rebel Yell? Yes it is AV, but it is not that modern in sound. It can do that very well, but it is rooted in a more modern take on the 80s sound not loosing that old school heart. It really does have that upper mid spike like nothing else I´ve heard, but with the AV the low end stays tight enough, yet the wire and voicing keeps it from getting harsh in the high end since that is mostly harmonic overtones it seems.

Definitely! It's been in that same guitar (spalted maple telecaster HH), and while it worked for a while... it just lacked the aggression i needed. I actually must disagree with you bit on the strong upper mid spike part... if perhaps only because it came across very calm in that guitar. Pre the official BK site charts (around 2010 or so), i took part in the forum EQ/Tone chart and rated it a 5/7/5 (bass/mid/treb). For comparison sake a Cold Sweat in the same guitar i rated 7/5/8.

If you have a les paul custom, or a brighter guitar the RY's mid spike might show up more.... but i would consider a strong upper mid spike to be along the lines of black dog or painkiller, more than the RY.  It's important to keep in mind this is a very dark guitar... so while singing MID-midrange was EXCELLENT, it's best qualities simply didn't show up. Unfortunate, but it would be good to find something that's more Black Dog style in terms of aggression, but less low mids. With the "singing" midrange of the RY and Abraxas. It should also be noted that i LOVE the black dog, it's just a slightly different beast i'm after currently.....

575 tone for the Rebel Yell Bridge?  Are you kidding me?  It was like a 3 8 7 in my Les Paul and it's more of a 7 8 8 or so in my very dark Godin LG.  It DEF has a lot of upper mids.  It sounds to me like you're encountering more of a guitar problem than a pickup problem, just my $0.05.

[gepetto33]

Well if a rebel yell rated along the lines of 7/8/8 in a guitar, then I'd hate to see what a warpig or miracle man would yeild! Somewhere in the teens, perhaps? Hahaha. ;)

The cold sweat came out just as expected, so it's nothing too crazy with the guitar. It's just certainly not upper-middy as something like the black dog or painkiller. It's not what I would call an aggressive pickup, when compared to those.

[Telerocker]

Yeah my bad, you tried the Abraxas.   

[darkbluemurder]

I mean, don't get me wrong.... i love the sound of the Abraxas. The Mule deserves a place in pickup history, as being among the best and most articulate PAF copies. But onto a new generation, where pickup sounds are becoming truly intrepid....

Is there such thing as an AGGRESSIVE, high upper mid-dy Alnico IV pickup? Is it even possible? The reason i ask is because that's the exact sound i'd like to hear, and feel there's a gap in the sound of vintage hot pickups - in BKP especially. This actually caused me to look elsewhere (non BKP) for replacing pickups in my darker Telecaster HH guitar.... Though i still ended up at Alnico V to find the sound.

Tell me your thoughts on this, along with your experience using Alnico IV's (Abraxas, Mules, some real PAF's)......

You probably will get closest in the BKP line if you take a VHII bridge and swap the A5 for A4.

Cheers Stephan

[gepetto33]

You probably will get closest in the BKP line if you take a VHII bridge and swap the A5 for A4.

Cheers Stephan

Very interesting Stephan.....

So what about the VHII makes you think so, compared to the other options? I've never done a swap, but know you can buy magnets direct from mojotone....

And i assume the output would remain the same, as it's directly dependent on the wind, correct? (8.9-9.2k is literally perfect for me)