Looking for a chunkier Riff Raff? Also difference between Mule & Black Dog neck?

[AnnunakiMassacr]

I've been playing with my Riff Raff/Mule for a couple weeks now (review coming soon), and whilst I love the dynamics, touch sensitivity, etc. I find it to be lacking a bit of chunk for solos. Not saying it doesn't have it! I would just prefer something a little bit more weighty, but with similar output and characteristics. Is this a Black Dog?

Regarding the neck pickup, I love the Mule. But I'm curious about the Black Dog neck. Could someone explain the difference between these 2 pickups?

:)

[FELINEGUITARS]

Black Dog is wound with a thinner gauge of wire than the mule or riff raff
It's a metric "in-between" size which is very useful as it tightens up the bass a little and adds a bit of midrange growl, without making the step to 43 gauge.
Sometimes been called 42.5 gauge, although it's slightly closer to 42 than 43 gauge.

A few of the BKP neck pickups seem to use it to great effect - Rebel Yell and Cold Sweat.
Can be useful for keeping the neck pickup in a Les Paul from being too flubby when playing chords.

Also look at VH2 which is still 42 gauge but wound to the limit pretty much and has a winding offset that adds a touch more top and bottom too which is welcome in a fat PAF style pickup sometimes.

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Black Dog is wound with a thinner gauge of wire than the mule or riff raff
It's a metric "in-between" size which is very useful as it tightens up the bass a little and adds a bit of midrange growl, without making the step to 43 gauge.
Sometimes been called 42.5 gauge, although it's slightly closer to 42 than 43 gauge.

A few of the BKP neck pickups seem to use it to great effect - Rebel Yell and Cold Sweat.
Can be useful for keeping the neck pickup in a Les Paul from being too flubby when playing chords.

Also look at VH2 which is still 42 gauge but wound to the limit pretty much and has a winding offset that adds a touch more top and bottom too which is welcome in a fat PAF style pickup sometimes.

Does all this just apply to the neck pickups? If so it helps a lot. Thanks :)

Just incase I wasn't clear though, I'm looking for a chunkier Riff Raff bridge.

[darrenw5094]

Chunkier, but darker would be the Abraxas. If you need the treble like the RR, then maybe the Emerald might be a closer option.

BD is not as balanced as the RR, but is fatter in the low mids and quite bright also.

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Chunkier, but darker would be the Abraxas. If you need the treble like the RR, then maybe the Emerald might be a closer option.

BD is not as balanced as the RR, but is fatter in the low mids and quite bright also.

Yeah it's a bit more low mids I'm after as well. I want to keep the aggressive rock character, just a bit more fuller. I wouldn't say I find the Riff Raff bright, I just think it's missing that low mid chunk as it's very hi-mid focussed.

I never considered the Abraxas as I assumed that it might be a bit too polite for what I'm after

[darkbluemurder]

Yeah it's a bit more low mids I'm after as well. I want to keep the aggressive rock character, just a bit more fuller. I wouldn't say I find the Riff Raff bright, I just think it's missing that low mid chunk as it's very hi-mid focussed.

I never considered the Abraxas as I assumed that it might be a bit too polite for what I'm after

Have you considered the Rebel Yell bridge? That would give you the aggressive rock character with a fuller sound than a PAF type pickup. And since it's wound with 43 awg, the DC resistance of 14k will not mean it's almost twice as loud as the 8.2k 42 awg Riff Raff.

Cheers Stephan

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Yeah it's a bit more low mids I'm after as well. I want to keep the aggressive rock character, just a bit more fuller. I wouldn't say I find the Riff Raff bright, I just think it's missing that low mid chunk as it's very hi-mid focussed.

I never considered the Abraxas as I assumed that it might be a bit too polite for what I'm after

Have you considered the Rebel Yell bridge? That would give you the aggressive rock character with a fuller sound than a PAF type pickup. And since it's wound with 43 awg, the DC resistance of 14k will not mean it's almost twice as loud as the 8.2k 42 awg Riff Raff.

Cheers Stephan

Yeah I already have a set. But I want to keep the dynamics of a vintage-vintage hot. The Riff Raff just feels a lot more responsive, dynamic, touch sensitive, compared to the Rebel Yell. Don't get me wrong, I do love my Rebel Yell. I just prefer the feel of something lower output for this guitar.

[Telerocker]

VHII!

[Dave Sloven]

The Emerald is the middle step between the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell.  If you don't find the RR bright then you might want to consider the Emerald, as your guitar sounds like it could be fairly dark

[AnnunakiMassacr]

The Emerald is the middle step between the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell.  If you don't find the RR bright then you might want to consider the Emerald, as your guitar sounds like it could be fairly dark

It's actually fairly bright...well its got a pretty loud acoustic tone. And whilst I do like the Rebel Yell, I don't want something too familiar or hot. The Emerald was an idea, but after reading Slartis review, it seems to bright. Or too much shifted towards the hi-mids. It also seems a little bit hot as I want to back off it lighter styles as well. I have my Rebel Yell for the harmonics that that upper mid bite gives. I think this is one I may need a little bit of time. Come to think of it,I think it's the aggressiveness of the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell that I'm actually trying to shift away from with this guitar.

This is a hard one. I just don't want to get it wrong this time

[gepetto33]

The Emerald is the middle step between the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell.  If you don't find the RR bright then you might want to consider the Emerald, as your guitar sounds like it could be fairly dark

It's actually fairly bright...well its got a pretty loud acoustic tone. And whilst I do like the Rebel Yell, I don't want something too familiar or hot. The Emerald was an idea, but after reading Slartis review, it seems to bright. Or too much shifted towards the hi-mids. It also seems a little bit hot as I want to back off it lighter styles as well. I have my Rebel Yell for the harmonics that that upper mid bite gives. I think this is one I may need a little bit of time. Come to think of it,I think it's the aggressiveness of the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell that I'm actually trying to shift away from with this guitar.

This is a hard one. I just don't want to get it wrong this time

Looking through all this i got a bit confused to what your original intention was. Then i realized you were asking two separate questions for two separate applications, which makes more sense.

For bridge pickups - from everything you listed i can tell you that the Black Dog seems like a great option. Out of all the BKP's i tried it stayed in the longest.... about 4 years. Picture a riff raff, but with the mid spectrum shifted down a bit, from high-mid emphasis to low mid emphasis. It doesn't have a ton of highs, which might work great if you already have a bright guitar. The highs are smooth and balanced. The lows are enough to fatten up any standard tuned guitar, and give more heft to down-tuned ones.

It all depends on the kind of music you play. I find it crazy to hear people saying it's their least favorite BKP, but then take into account the fact it may not work for their personal/musical needs. Hope this helps!


-Z

[AnnunakiMassacr]

The Emerald is the middle step between the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell.  If you don't find the RR bright then you might want to consider the Emerald, as your guitar sounds like it could be fairly dark

It's actually fairly bright...well its got a pretty loud acoustic tone. And whilst I do like the Rebel Yell, I don't want something too familiar or hot. The Emerald was an idea, but after reading Slartis review, it seems to bright. Or too much shifted towards the hi-mids. It also seems a little bit hot as I want to back off it lighter styles as well. I have my Rebel Yell for the harmonics that that upper mid bite gives. I think this is one I may need a little bit of time. Come to think of it,I think it's the aggressiveness of the Riff Raff and Rebel Yell that I'm actually trying to shift away from with this guitar.

This is a hard one. I just don't want to get it wrong this time

Looking through all this i got a bit confused to what your original intention was. Then i realized you were asking two separate questions for two separate applications, which makes more sense.

For bridge pickups - from everything you listed i can tell you that the Black Dog seems like a great option. Out of all the BKP's i tried it stayed in the longest.... about 4 years. Picture a riff raff, but with the mid spectrum shifted down a bit, from high-mid emphasis to low mid emphasis. It doesn't have a ton of highs, which might work great if you already have a bright guitar. The highs are smooth and balanced. The lows are enough to fatten up any standard tuned guitar, and give more heft to down-tuned ones.

It all depends on the kind of music you play. I find it crazy to hear people saying it's their least favorite BKP, but then take into account the fact it may not work for their personal/musical needs. Hope this helps!


-Z

It's funny as I'm not trying to emulate a tone. I just felt something else was needed for my style. But I think deep down I was looking for the Black Dog and trying to find reasons not to haha. Kind of like when you hide 2 things behind your back, and when a person picks one, you wish they'd picked the other haha. Have you any info on the neck?

[gepetto33]

It's funny as I'm not trying to emulate a tone. I just felt something else was needed for my style. But I think deep down I was looking for the Black Dog and trying to find reasons not to haha. Kind of like when you hide 2 things behind your back, and when a person picks one, you wish they'd picked the other haha. Have you any info on the neck?

Sure, but in the interest of getting you on to playing and off the forums i wanted to re-affirm your faith in the Black Dog's.  They $%&#ing rule if you want a full mid-rangey, articulated, heavy sound. If you did blues, shred-dy stuff, or djent-core metal then that would be outside my realm of avocation, just to note. But in my experience they do heavy stuff GREAT. 

I don't really do neck pickups until just recently i put an order in..... but mine are for high gain rhythm and not solos/blues-y stuff. So even when i do get them it would be a more subjective interpretation thereof. Perhaps just throw out the question (to Tim or whoever) about what neck matches best with the black dog bridge PU.

[AnnunakiMassacr]

It's funny as I'm not trying to emulate a tone. I just felt something else was needed for my style. But I think deep down I was looking for the Black Dog and trying to find reasons not to haha. Kind of like when you hide 2 things behind your back, and when a person picks one, you wish they'd picked the other haha. Have you any info on the neck?

Sure, but in the interest of getting you on to playing and off the forums i wanted to re-affirm your faith in the Black Dog's.  They $%&#ing rule if you want a full mid-rangey, articulated, heavy sound. If you did blues, shred-dy stuff, or djent-core metal then that would be outside my realm of avocation, just to note. But in my experience they do heavy stuff GREAT. 

I don't really do neck pickups until just recently i put an order in..... but mine are for high gain rhythm and not solos/blues-y stuff. So even when i do get them it would be a more subjective interpretation thereof. Perhaps just throw out the question (to Tim or whoever) about what neck matches best with the black dog bridge PU.

Cheers for that. i'll get a Black Dog to compliment my Mule :) Nothing ventured; nothing gained :)

[ericsabbath]

the vhII definitely sounds like a chunkier riff raff for rhythms, but I don't think there's an improvement in the lead sustain and thickness
the rebel yell sounds like a safer bet

I'm about to try an emerald in my '73 lp custom, but I have no idea what to expect compared to the riff raff I have in it