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Author Topic: Solid State Option?  (Read 8206 times)

Slartibartfarst42

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Solid State Option?
« on: January 15, 2015, 01:15:08 PM »
I've been using valve amps for a while now with a range of good quality pedals. I love the sounds I can get but I don't like the relative fragility of valve amps and their inconsistency can be a pain because whenever the slightest thing changes I have to tweak my settings  to get the sound right. The other day I was playing through a cheap practice amp and I was surprised it sounded remarkably good. This got me thinking that there might be a solid state amp out there that will give me a great tone that is consistent and can be used for both gigs and at home. I've already thought about modelling amps and multi-fx units but the tone just isn't that great so I thought I might be better off getting a really good solid state amp rather than one that is trying (and failing) to emulate valves. I'm looking for an amp that has a good range of tones as I play in a Rock covers band so I need to go from clean to Metallica levels of gain. At my age my heart primarily lies in 80's Metal tones though I do like Avenged Sevenfold too. My favourite guitarist is Gary Moore but I also like artists from Santanna to Andy James.

I'm completely stuck on what to look at or if such an amp even exists. The Randall RG1503 looked interesting but absolutely nobody around me stocks them and all of the reviews I've read seem to talk about Death Metal and Dimebag's tone, suggesting it might be a bit of a one-trick pony. If I were to change (by no means certain) I'd entertain a buget of up to £500 for either a combo or a head and cab. Either a 1X12 or 2X12 is fine. Any suggestions would be welcome as I really have no idea if this is even remotely viable. 
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littleredguitars2

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 01:34:02 PM »
i really like my orange cr120. its really great. the blackstar ID series looks promising too with tons of options
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Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 01:42:10 PM »
I looked at the Blackstar as that's what I use now but although it sounds good, it's nothing like as good as the valve amp I have from Blackstar now. I'll try to find an Orange CR120 somewhere to at least try it.
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Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 08:30:54 PM »
I've looked into this a bit more and I'm still unsure I'd change from valve but there are some I came up with that I thought may be worthy of further investigation:

Orange CR60C - Good reputation and probably does all I need but not sure if 60w solid state will work well enough at gigs. I also looked at the CR120C but that's just too expensive and way too heavy.

Randall RG80 - Seems to get good reviews but there is absolutely nowhere I can try one and I'm still concerned it will be a bit of a one-trick pony.

H&K Edition Blue 60 - Same concern as the Orange really and from what I can gather, the gain on tap is limited, though a pedal could get around that.

Fender Champion 100 - I wasn't really wanting a modelling amp as I only really use 3/4 core tones but as this keeps things very simple, it became of interest. My concern here is using it live as all the footswitch does is change between 2 channels so if I want any additional tones I either have to adjust it manually between songs or use pedals.

Fender Mustang III - Once I'd introduced some modelling with the Champion it seemed a logical extension to also look at this one. I have no idea at all if the modelling used on the Mustang is the same as the Champion or not but I'd like to find out. I assume it's different otherwise I see little point in the Champion.

Any thoughts on how any of these would compare to my Blackstar HT60?
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38thBeatle

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 10:33:57 PM »
Or an Award Session Sessionette.
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littleredguitars2

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 12:32:09 PM »
they make an orange cr120 head. i have one. its about 30 lbs and its really great
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Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 01:09:01 PM »
I looked at that one but as I currently have a combo, it would mean also buying a cab which is likely to have to be 2X12 and is therefore additional expense and space. However, it's encouraging that you rate these new Pro Crush models so highly as I'm going to try out a CR60C tomorrow. My Blackstar is a decent valve amp but I'm hoping that a really good solid state amp will stand up to it well. I may take a look at the Fenders too while I'm there but I suspect the Orange should be better.
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Dave Sloven

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 01:57:10 PM »
If I was in the market for a solid state head I would be looking for a Randall dealer (I have one near me).

The classic '80s thing was the Peavey Bandit clean channel plus pedals.  The silver stripe or red stripe are better options because they have a speaker out.

Otherwise for a recent one you could try the Peavey XXL head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEtOzvK9CCs
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littleredguitars2

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2015, 12:52:16 AM »
I looked at that one but as I currently have a combo, it would mean also buying a cab which is likely to have to be 2X12 and is therefore additional expense and space. However, it's encouraging that you rate these new Pro Crush models so highly as I'm going to try out a CR60C tomorrow. My Blackstar is a decent valve amp but I'm hoping that a really good solid state amp will stand up to it well. I may take a look at the Fenders too while I'm there but I suspect the Orange should be better.

its really a great amp. my only downside is that it is VERY orange. and to some people thats a great thing. its always going to sound like an orange. it does plenty of different genres well but it will always have that orange vibe to it. which can be a bit annoying if say you wanna cover something that doesnt sound like a british style for example.
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Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 01:17:20 AM »
Could you please elaborate on what exactly is the 'Orange' sound as I've never played any of their amps before. I can tell you that I love the Marshall tone, I love a lot of the sounds you can get from a H&K and I obviously love the Blackstar tone.

I just had a blast on my Blackstar and I really do love it but the fact remains that it has to be loud to really start to sing. Don't get me wrong, I can get a decent tone in the house, it's just that you can hear me playing down the street. I'm not sure I want the Orange or any other solid state amp if it's a lot worse than my Blackstar for tone but I'd sacrifice a bit of tone for greater tonal consistency wherever I play.
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littleredguitars2

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 02:19:55 AM »
its kinda hard to explain. just like a marshall sounds like a marshall. a mesa sounds like a mesa. its just one of those things i guess. the orange does sound good at low volume but i dont know if its as good as the blackstar.
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Alex

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 03:39:28 PM »
I never felt valve amps are that fragile as people say. I've pretty much grown up with valve amps and as a result have never found a solid state amp that I liked.
There are a lot of nice lunchbox valve amps out nowadays that IMO bridge the gap between the big and heavy (and impractical) valve amps and the small and more portable solid state practice amps.
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richard

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 05:14:50 PM »
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBckw1T1gvU

I would take a look at this. Lots of other demos on Youtube. Takes boost pedals really well.
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Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Solid State Option?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2015, 05:58:28 PM »
Well, I thought I'd report back on my progress. I did look at a Blues Cube and it was fantastic but at almost £100 more than the Orange, it was just too expensive.

The Fender Champion 100 is undoubtedly a hell of a lot of amp for the money, coming in £120 less than the Orange with double the number of speakers, almost double the power and weighing less. What's more, the tones are very good too. It has a lovely clean channel on it and the models on the drive channel are all good too with loads of gain available on the 'Metal' setting. Unfortunately, there were things I didn't like about it. Having a 2-button footswitch with one of those buttons just turning effects on and off while the other simply moves from 'Clean' to 'Drive' is ridiculous. With quite a few models available on the Drive channel, this means that to switch gain settings at any time in a show, you have to do it manually at the amp or use an external pedal and that just seems silly to me when for the cost of a few more buttons the amp could have done so much more. The other problem was the tone. Although listened to in isolation it was very good, it was noticeably digital sounding when directly compared to my Blackstar. Now I didn't expect the tone to be a match for a valve amp but in this case the difference in quality was enough that I couldn't entertain the notion of such a change. On to the Orange.

Physically it looks tiny compared to the Blackstar, which is unusually big for a 1X12 and though I've read reports saying it's heavy for a solid state amp, I found it positively featherweight compared to the Blackstar. Build quality appears to be excellent. Good start.  :smiley:  I tried the Clean channel first and was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the tone. It was clear and warm and while it didn't have the richness of a good valve amp, it was still good enough for me. That's partly because I don't use the Clean channel much but mostly because I've never been that struck on the Clean channel on my Blackstar. Treachery as it may sound, I preferred the Clean channel on the Orange to the Blackstar.  :smiley: I then set the Clean channel just to the point of break-up and asked the shop to give me an Overdrive pedal to put in front of it and they brought a Marshall GV-2. The result was reasonable but hardly spectacular and I was left somewhat disappointed that I couldn't get a better crunch tone that way.  :sad: 

Next I tried the Drive channel and I was initially disappointed. On the Blackstar, setting the gain to '3' gives me plenty of distortion for a good AC/DC sound but on the Orange the sound was still pretty much clean.  :sad: Instead, I moved the gain to maximum and tried again. This time there was plenty distortion and for the first time I noticed the 'fuzziness' I'd read about Orange amps in some reviews. It wasn't bad at all and in a way I quite liked it but it was certainly different to what I'm used to.  :undecided: Next I tried moving the gain to about halfway and found that between 50% and 75% is where this amp likes to live. The distortion was really quite impressive with very good articulation and what was even better was that the GV-2 seemed to work rather better on the Drive channel, giving me the extra distortion I might want without the fuzziness.  :smiley: The sales girl told me that she owned one of these amps and she used hers that way too. At this point I decided that the GV-2 might just not be very good so I brought out my Carl Martin Quattro that I'd taken along just in case. Hooking this beauty up to the Orange made a huge difference. Engaging OD1 from the Quattro on the Clean channel produced a drastically improved result and OD2 just gave me more distortion with the same good quality tone. Ironically, I've never liked using the overdrives on the Quattro with the Clean channel of the Blackstar but on the Orange it was a revelation and I loved it.  :smiley: Encouraged by this, I returned to the Drive channel on the Orange with the gain set at 50% and engaged OD1 on the Quattro. Mmmmmmmmmm; a REALLY nice sound and once again, moving to OD2 on the Quattro did nothing to remove the quality of the tone. Smooth, very articulate and very 80's Metal in style but with more gain. Once again I found myself very impressed  :smiley:

Next up was to do a back to back comparison with the Blackstar and this is where it got tricky. God I love that amp and in the cold light of day, the tone from the Blackstar was definitely superior. It had more depth, more richness and more complexity in the tone compared to the Orange  :sad: BUT the Orange amp did have some redeeming qualities.  :smiley: If you approach the Orange looking for a perfect valve tone, you might be disappointed. It certainly has some valve-like qualities to it but that doesn't make it a direct substitute for valves. If, however, you approach the Orange just looking for a good quality tone that is its own thing then I think you may be pleasantly surprised as the tone is really good. It has a lot more to it than solid state amps I've tried before even if it doesn't quite have the harmonic richness of valves and to be frank, I liked it. Furthermore, strange as this may seem, the Carl Martin Quattro seemed to work even better on the Orange than it does on my Blackstar and I found that using it with the two channels on the amp set up how I liked them, I could end up with six very useable tones whereas I can't get that many on the Blackstar. I have absolutely no idea at all why that should be the case as I know nothing of electronics and I would have thought that effects from Carl Martin would be tailored more for higher end valve gear but to my ears it just worked better with the Orange.  :smiley:

Decision time. On the one hand I really struggled to get past the fact that the ultimate tone on the Blackstar was better  :sad: but against that, the Orange was smaller, lighter, worked better with my primary pedal, had a more consistent tone in relation to volume and I'd no longer have to fork out a chunk of cash to replace valves! On top of that, I DID like the tone and while the valve amp may have been superior, it wasn't by anything like as much as I'd feared. In conclusion, I took the bull by the horns and decided to make the change. I'm part exchanging the Blackstar and even including the optional footswitch with the Orange, it's still costing me very little to change. I didn't have my own amp with me today as I used one of their Blackstars for the comparison so I'll be picking it up next weekend.
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