Username: Password:

Author Topic: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck  (Read 14560 times)

JimmyMoorby

  • Guest
The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« on: May 14, 2015, 05:43:02 PM »
I've read several times that the miracle man neck is pretty much identical to the bridge but with an alnico magnet.
I'm a fan on the EMG 81 in the bridge but also in the neck.

I have a couple of medium/hi output bridges knocking around neither of which have massive low end response.  A rebel yell and something from another brand similar.  I could experiment but I don't want to waste my time unnecessarily or waste strings etc.

What do people think about putting hi output bridges in the neck position?

I am thinking about hi gain leads etc rather than anything else.

Cheers

AnnunakiMassacr

  • Featherweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2015, 07:41:54 PM »
For me, I hate neck humbuckers in the sense they never seem to have that top end I get from the bridge. Which leads me to believe, it's not the pickup I dislike, it must be related to the higher tension near the bridge. I like the neck slot purely as it sounds more "tubular". But it lacks the cut from the bridge. Bridge pickups are normally more rounded to compensate for that "sharper" tone the bridge provides. Kind of the same way a fatter/warmer pickup is more suited to a brighter guitars, and how something like the Emerald or Cold Sweat is suited more to a darker guitar.

Now building on this point (no pun intended), there's many players out there hat use DiMarzio pickups that are highly suited to the bridge, in the neck spot. But you find 8/10, they're playing pretty bright guitars to begin with.

My logic from this is if you hate how warm a neck pickup is, in something, let' say, a Les Paul... putting the bridge pickup in the neck is going to completely take you in the wrong direction.

But as time has shown, you'd be surprised how often these rules have been broken. Seymour Duncan, himself, strongly advises against using the Alnico II pro neck in LP type of guitars. Saying it's way too warm. But also says that Slash, gets away by how bright his amp is. If anyone has played his choice of Marshalls, especially the AFD model, you will know it is "extremely" bright! So it adds that top end. The pickups purely provide that low output, organic feel. Whilst the amp provides the distortion/overdrive. And gives what is a very warm pickup, that added harmonically rich tone.

I think this leads o the next point: I'd say players are divided into the low output pickup users, who use the amp to provide the overdrive and distortion; and the players who use how output pickups, that hit amps hard and provide similar tone. The Rebel Yell pickup provides a lot of harmonics, whereas you might play a pickup that is very warm into an amp like the Marshall AFD, and it's the amp that provides the harmonics due to the EQ of it/

So for me personally, I prefer bright neck pickups. But if you fall into the other category where you use the amp for the brightness, you could definitely get away with a bridge pickup in the neck. But in this situation, I'd personally choose this if you like the feel of the pickup.

Hope this helps. I'm no GURU, and my opinions may be completely off. But this is what I've found from personal experiences. But normally high output pickup users use the pickup to hit the amp. So I'd use a bright mp if you want a hi output bridge pickup in the neck. But hey...people use the Dimarzio Tone Zone in the neck. So I say try it. My ears are different to yours :)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 07:45:40 PM by AnnunakiMassacr »
BKPs: ESP Eclipse I CTM FT w/Riff Raff bridge/Mule neck - ESP Eclipse I CTM w/Rebel Yells - LTD EC-1000 FT w/Aftermaths - Music Man JPIX w/Juggernauts

fdesalvo

  • Featherweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • Frank DeSalvo's Music on Soundcloud
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 07:44:04 PM »
I don't personally like HO pickups in the neck position.  I find medium output pickups sound better. Let the amp's preamp or your pedals handle the gain to maintain a little clarity in this situation. This is my opinion, but if you have  a specific tone in mind, there may be no other way to achieve it using any other method.

ericsabbath

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4702
    • Colidium
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 07:49:02 PM »
some bkp neck pups sound great in the bridge position, so I don't see why the opposite couldn't occur

just gotta be careful with volume matching

I installed a dimarzio k10 (70's version of the dimarzio super 2) in the neck and  alnico warpig in the bridge of a friends gibson flying v
they both sounded great, but the dimarzio heavily overpowered the warpig despite of reading 9k only
the dimarzio had a huge ceramic magnet and was really really loud
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

AnnunakiMassacr

  • Featherweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 07:55:08 PM »
some bkp neck pups sound great in the bridge position, so I don't see why the opposite couldn't occur

just gotta be careful with volume matching

I installed a dimarzio k10 (70's version of the dimarzio super 2) in the neck and  alnico warpig in the bridge of a friends gibson flying v
they both sounded great, but the dimarzio heavily overpowered the warpig despite of reading 9k only
the dimarzio had a huge ceramic magnet and was really really loud

I think with that, the DC shouldn't be regarding as an output indicator. If you look at a lot of DiMarzios, the DC can be 10-11 DC, but the ouput is loads. The best example being the BKP Black Hawks.

I wish BP would start using an output reference. As well as putting more descriptions about the neck pickups, and how their EQ compares to the bridge. There are so many popular neck pickups by BKP, that I actually see more threads these days about "what neck pickup would suit better", that BKP need to start advertising neck pickups, rather than focussing on the bridge, with a brief description of the neck. I think out of the entire range, only the Cold Sweat is mentioned the most, and that only says it's suited to shred and effortless sweeping
BKPs: ESP Eclipse I CTM FT w/Riff Raff bridge/Mule neck - ESP Eclipse I CTM w/Rebel Yells - LTD EC-1000 FT w/Aftermaths - Music Man JPIX w/Juggernauts

Alex

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2004
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 09:07:34 PM »
Just try some, normally the only problem with neck pickups is that they can be too low output and you can't raise them enough. A too loud one can always be lowered. Just think of the EMG85 - it has even more output than the EMG81, yet it is probably more used in the neck position than in the bridge.
The DiMarzio Air Norton, I think, was also originally intended as a bridge model, not a neck model, until people found it out it worked great in the neck.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog

JimmyMoorby

  • Guest
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 09:08:20 PM »
Interesting stuff guys.  Thanks very much.

I think im just going to go for it and try it.  The miracle man neck is the same as the bridge but with alnico as far as I know and I really like an emg 81 in the bridge and neck. 

I have a medium/hi output ceramic bridge pickup without a home and it wont go for much on ebay as its made by an 'obscure' brand' but I also paid a lot for it.  It's bright with lots of harmonics and has a tight bass so it might well work.  It's a Les Paul Custom and the alnico black hawk bridge is perfect.....the neck is ok but if this bridge ceramic can replace it i can make some money back from the black hawk neck on ebay.

If the cleans are good its a bonus but this guitar is meant purely for hi gain riffs and solos.  I have other guitars for nice cleans and other styles.

Just put an alnico warpig in my SG Last night.  Only played it at low volume but it's thickened up the sg just like i wanted.  Very cool Black Sabbath/Mastodon type sound.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 09:09:53 PM by JimmyMoorby »

Dave Sloven

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4312
    • Get our album here (alnico Black Hawks)
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 11:34:56 PM »
I would try the RY bridge in the neck slot and see what it sounds like.  Easy enough to change it again if it's already paid for
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

JimmyMoorby

  • Guest
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 11:52:12 PM »
I would try the RY bridge in the neck slot and see what it sounds like.  Easy enough to change it again if it's already paid for

What makes you think the rebel yell bridge would work in the neck?  Any particular type of guitar?

Cheers

P.S - As per AM's post I agree it's about time BKP went into more detail in their descriptions re the neck pickups.  I've always found the description of the bridges 100% accurate.  I feel i;ve had to experiment unnecessarily with neck pups!

Yellowjacket

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 853
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 08:22:18 AM »
For me, I hate neck humbuckers in the sense they never seem to have that top end I get from the bridge. Which leads me to believe, it's not the pickup I dislike, it must be related to the higher tension near the bridge. I like the neck slot purely as it sounds more "tubular". But it lacks the cut from the bridge. Bridge pickups are normally more rounded to compensate for that "sharper" tone the bridge provides. Kind of the same way a fatter/warmer pickup is more suited to a brighter guitars, and how something like the Emerald or Cold Sweat is suited more to a darker guitar.



This is exactly the case.  The bridge position for the pickup gives more overtones in relation to the fundamental which is why it is a brighter, more cutting, and more focused tone.  The Neck position emphasizes the fundamental which is why it is a darker and more vowel sort of a tone.  I notice this same phenomenon on my Cello save for one difference, bowing near the bridge gives a louder tone because you can really dig in with the bow.  On a guitar, you end up with less amplitude over the bridge pickup so if the pickups had the same output, the neck would be far louder.  Personally, I always prefer less output on a neck pick and more on a bridge, which I guess is kind of a strange thing but it works well with my approach to playing. 

ericsabbath

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4702
    • Colidium
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 01:26:40 PM »
what about a neck painkiller?
13k ceramic seems promising
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

gwEm

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7456
    • http://www.preromanbritain.com/gwem
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 02:49:50 PM »
whatever sounds good really..

i thought neck pickups were a waste of time dirty  - no cut, muddy, too much bass. i only really got into them after I tried a strat and realised they can sound awesome. Now I use strat coils, mini humbuckers and parallel wired full humbuckers in the neck to brighten things up a huge amount.

i think my neck tones to be as bright as the bridge and just as hot. even then they keep their fluid neck position sound, except you can hear them in the mix!
Quote from: AndyR
you wouldn't use the meat knife on crusty bread but, equally, the serrated knife and straight edge knife aren't going to go through raw meat as quickly

Slartibartfarst42

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2125
  • Random Solution
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 08:03:11 AM »
I would certainly agree that BKP need to provide more information about the neck pickups. I've lost track of the number of times people mistakenly think the Emerald neck is super bright because of an EQ chart that only relates to the bridge or that the Holydiver neck is all mids, hot and aimed at 80s shred when the reality is VERY different.

My only experience of putting a bridge model in the neck position is a friend's guitar that uses a bridge Mississippi Queen in the neck and it sounds superb. Having said that, for all I know the actual neck model of the MQ might sound even better.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

darkbluemurder

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2246
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 10:17:42 AM »
I would worry about too much bass coming from a high output pickup in the neck position. On the other hand, if you have a bridge pickup with a very tight bottom end it could work well in the neck position. But it's all personal preference and for what you use the neck pickup - if you use it only to play leads on the top strings above the 12th fret, even a Super Distortion would work for that.

Cheers Stephan

JimmyMoorby

  • Guest
Re: The wisdom of putting bridge pickups in the neck
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 01:35:18 PM »
Nice one that's it then.  I can see it working out to be fair given it does have tight bass and I can keep it away from the strings.  It probably has less output than a painkiller neck im guessing.....

Cheers