Black Dog vs. Riff Raff - I'm really having a tough time deciding.

[guitarded_1]

Hello.  I have followed the forum for quite a while, but this is my first post.  I got turned on to BKP by way of the Irish Tour set.  I’m not usually a single coil guy, but wow, that set sounds incredible.

I have done a lot of research and read many posts, and I’m hoping that you guys can help me narrow down my choice.  First off, for better or for worse, I have pretty good ears.  I really wish that all pickups sounded the same to me, but they don’t.  Up to now, Motor City pickups have been my “go to” for humbuckers, but their lead time is around 3 months, and I just can’t go through that wait again.

I have a Gibson 58 reissue Les Paul on the way, and I will likely change out the Custom Buckers for something a bit more robust.  My main amp is a 1980 Marshall JMP 2204, and I run it through a greenback loaded cabinet – pure rock and roll.  I play in an original band, but as an example, my levels of gain range from Thin Lizzy to Foo Fighters to Alice in Chains – but I’m not a metal guy.  Hard rock is my thing.

I’m looking for a medium output PAF type pickup.  I don’t like upper mids (snarl) – but I dig punch mid mids (if that makes any sense).  I hate sizzle, but I like clean, clear high end.  I don’t want a pickup that is dark, overly round, or too polite sounding.  I want vintage tonality/complexity with some modern punch and low end (probably alnico V).  It needs to be very dynamic at all volume levels.  Let’s just focus on the bridge pickup for the moment.  A few thoughts:

The Mule – I’m 90% certain that although this is a great sounding pickup, it’s just a tad too low power/vintage for my taste.

Black Dog – This seems to be a contender, but does it still have some bite/grind?  Some of the clips I have heard make it sound a bit dark/smooth.

Riff Raff – This one looks interesting, but I wonder if it has too much top end and not enough mids?  My greenback speakers, by nature, have semi-hollow-mids, so a bright pickup without punchy mids might prove to be too much.

So right now, it boils down to Black Dog vs. Riff Raff.  Thoughts?  Are there other models I should be looking at?  Cheers.

[Serratus]

If I were you I would try the Black dog first. I have one in a singlecut 7-string and it's ballsy and fat, with plenty of low mid grind and kick. Fat without being overly bassy. I have heard other people say they find it really toppy but that's not been my experience at all (quite the opposite), so maybe it depends a lot on the guitar and amp setup, etc. I had a riff raff years ago but I found it a bit too light in the bass and low-mid frequencies for me (but perfect if you want to be Angus!).
You could also look at the Holy Diver, I've found that to be very similar in overall tone to the Black dog but maybe with a bit more bite due to the higher output (and its still a very versatile pickup, quite vintage-hot in feel despite the higher output imho). Also if you like the idea of the riff raff then also look at the Emerald - I have one in another singlecut 7-string and its not as bass light as the tone chart on the BKP site seems to show, but it is much smoother in the high end than the HD or BD.

[Dave Sloven]

'58 reissue is not weight-relieved, right?

You could go for the Riff Raff or even the Emerald with that and be okay with regard to brightness.  I put Emeralds in an early '90s LP Studio, and while they sound great there I think they'd sound even better in yours.  They do give the Brian Robertson Thin Lizzy sound that they claim when in the right guitar

[_tom_]

I don't find the Black Dog dark, it's quite bright in my SG. I still have to roll the tone knob down to about 6 or 7 to take away some of the high end but perhaps my guitar is just really bright. The Mules are great pickups in a Les Paul though, really versatile.

[darrenw5094]

The Abraxas is another to think about 

[guitarded_1]

I think I'm more confused now. 

[Telerocker]

I have Mules and I think the Mule-bridge does the trick in a '58 RI Les Paul. The Mule has a very nice chimey topend, which cuts enough for me. It's everything but not dark.
The RiffRaff is certainly a good option, just has a tad more mids -  with the emphasis on the uppermids - and more topend than the Mule.

[nkay]

I have never used the Riff Raff, but in the all the clips I've heard, it's a little too light and jangly for my tastes, probably very hollow in the low-mids. I've heard they are similar to the old Gibson t-tops.

I do have the Black Dog and I really like it, it's got lots of beef and low mids, highs are there, but more rounded. Nice growl to it, sounds like a grindier, more open, low-output Holydiver.

[Alex]

The Black Dog isn't dark, but its highs are more rounded and full sounding, and its low mids are very prominent. That gives it a generally darker feel than a vintage pickup.

[guitarded_1]

The Black Dog isn't dark, but its highs are more rounded and full sounding, and its low mids are very prominent. That gives it a generally darker feel than a vintage pickup.

I appreciate it.  The part about the rounded highs is what concerns me – I have seen others mention the same thing.  Can this pickup still crunch/chunk/ grind when needed?

[ericsabbath]

I wouldn't classiry the black dog as a PAF type, despite of the low/medium output
it has a quite late 70's/80's dense midrange, so it has more modern approach, not only a matter of output like the vhII, which is a hotter and stiffer riff raff/mule-like pup
I always had the impression that the dog it's more like a mellow voiced tamed down dimarzio super distortion or duncan jb than the usual hot rodded PAF case, despite of the mule analogy on the pups official page
it sounds nothing like a mule at all
if you're looking for that sort of in-your-face wall of mids without going high output, you'll love it
it does have round highs, but it's not dark, fuzzy or muffled sounding
it's not as open as a riff raff or mule, but it stills sounds pretty articulate

[guitarded_1]

Well I did it - ordered a Black Dog bridge and an Emerald Neck.  I'm not entirely sure what to expect, but I'm looking very forward to finding out.  Thanks for everyone's input.

[Lucas]

Well I did it - ordered a Black Dog bridge and an Emerald Neck.  I'm not entirely sure what to expect, but I'm looking very forward to finding out.  Thanks for everyone's input.

Nice combo. I am really curious especially about BD bridge, come back to us with some review please.

[guitarded_1]

Well I did it - ordered a Black Dog bridge and an Emerald Neck.  I'm not entirely sure what to expect, but I'm looking very forward to finding out.  Thanks for everyone's input.

Nice combo. I am really curious especially about BD bridge, come back to us with some review please.

I definitely will.  The descriptions of the Black Dog tend to vary greatly - from being dark to having a lot of high end.  I'm really curious to see how they shake out in my guitar.  I will report back as soon as I spend some time with these pickups...