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Author Topic: Paris shootings  (Read 1887 times)

GuitarIv

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Paris shootings
« on: December 03, 2015, 05:07:31 AM »
I'm sure I'm not the first one that's been thinking about starting such a thread here, eager to hear your opinions on the topic.

Exactly a week ago I was at a concert headlined by Lamb of God with Children of Bodom and Sylosis as support acts. As soon as I got to the venue there was a sign at the check in stating "Lamb of God cancelled, 10 bucks refund". I was mainly there to see Sylosis as they are my alltime favourite band so no real bummer here, yet the fact that LoG would cancel their whole remaining Europe dates kinda left a bitter taste. I live in Vienna and so far Austria has been spared any bigger terrorist attacks (for how long remains to be seen) so I probably cannot imagine how someone must feel when something terrible like the event in Paris happens in your hometown. Yet it's a statement when a well known band (and I know LoG aren't the only ones) cancels their shows out of fear that something might happen - the goal of the people responsible for the attacks is reached.

Alexi from Children greeted the crowd and these were his words: "Thank you everyone for being here with us tonight, despite all the shite going on right now."

I felt like the whole room had a certain chemistry going on after this. People were only banging their heads harder.

So what do you personally think? I'm kinda having a bipolar opinion here: on the hand I do understand that people fear for their lives, on the other if we all start giving in we might just as well stay at home and never leave the house again...

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Dave Sloven

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 01:23:07 PM »
I agree.  There are a lot of parts of the world where people have far greater threats of violence on a daily level and they keep going around doing stuff.  Hell if I was in the USA right now I'd have more fear of being shot by some wingnut than if I were in Europe!  Apparently the USA have been issuing travel warnings to people traveling to Sydney because of one idiot killing a few people in a siege there months ago while every week there seems to be some mass shooting happening at some random place in the USA and our government has not issued a travel warning to Australians traveling to the USA ...
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dave_mc

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 09:11:16 PM »
It definitely sucks when people don't come because of terrorism- that happened here for years (northern ireland).

On the other hand, at the same time it's hard to blame them. Why would you put yourself in harm's way if you don't have to?

Maybe more importantly, it's worth noting that they're more at risk than the average person going to a gig- they're playing every night (or nearly every night), so the odds are much higher. A bit like the way the dentist goes out of the room when you get an x-ray, because he/she isn't just exposed to the one x-ray like you are as a patient.

GuitarIv

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 12:58:32 PM »
Yeah I can totally see that, I don't blame them. But what are the odds for you to go outside today and be struck down by lightning? Or to slip and fall, break your neck on a table etc.? Less likely to happen yet people have died stranger ways before. Don't get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying but death is the only thing certain in life and the moment we must leave this world eventually comes sooner or later. People will panic when something like the event in Paris happens, security levels will be hightened, new laws for more control get passed and then time goes by and everyone eventually forgets about it until the next catastrophe occurs. My point here is that hiding in fear sends the wrong signal. Again I'm in no position to judge, just trying to get a healthy discussion started  :smiley:

Plenum n Heather

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 01:09:44 PM »
People panic in part because mass media breeds fear. ISIS has one of the PR firms on the planet: CNN!

dave_mc

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 08:47:02 PM »
Yeah I can totally see that, I don't blame them. But what are the odds for you to go outside today and be struck down by lightning? Or to slip and fall, break your neck on a table etc.? Less likely to happen yet people have died stranger ways before. Don't get me wrong, I totally get what you're saying but death is the only thing certain in life and the moment we must leave this world eventually comes sooner or later. People will panic when something like the event in Paris happens, security levels will be hightened, new laws for more control get passed and then time goes by and everyone eventually forgets about it until the next catastrophe occurs. My point here is that hiding in fear sends the wrong signal. Again I'm in no position to judge, just trying to get a healthy discussion started  :smiley:

Yeah. I was just making the point that if I hadn't been born here I'm not sure I'd have chosen to move into it- there's always someone worse off but it's not much of an argument that the people who aren't should make themselves worse off as a result (because making yourself artificially worse off will rarely make the lives of those who are worse off better, it'll just salve your conscience), or that the people who have a relatively decent life have no cause to complain about anything. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation )

The other thing is, I don't really agree with your argument about other things being riskier. You're absolutely correct that some everyday things are pretty risky, but the difference is that those are risks that you can't avoid. Just because you can't avoid some risks doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to avoid other, possibly smaller, risks that you can avoid, if that's what you want to do.

Also what you're saying sounds awfully close to fatalism, which I don't agree with either.

Of course whether the approach you take to avoid those risks actually reduces the risk is another argument. :laugh:

gwEm

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 09:43:35 AM »
People panic in part because mass media breeds fear. ISIS has one of the PR firms on the planet: CNN!

This morning the station I use - Liverpool Street - was evacuated. People were scared and worrying about terrorism. But the truth of it was it was just a fire alarm which was wrongly set off.

People are jumpy about terrorism right now, and for good reason in some cases. I am going to see Gamma Ray tonight and I won't be worried about any terrorist activity there(!)
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GuitarIv

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 08:34:31 AM »
Dave: I am somewhat a person that rather sees the glass half empty, so maybe my comments come of as too pessimistic. The "people are starving in Africa" argument is usually something that annoys me to death, so if I gave the impression that it was my aim to delve into such territory I apologize hereby. I agree that people shouldn't take risks they can avoid or lay on their back and resign just because we live in a very messed up world. I lack the words to exactly express my thoughts over the internet, I guess this is rather a matter one should discuss in person over a pint of beer. It just saddens me that we are all being affected in our everyday lives by something that is nothing more than a political game. And I agree that big media isn't helping exactly.

dave_mc

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 07:30:48 PM »
No worries, sorry if I read too much into what you were saying.  :smiley: I have no problem with pessimism, for what it's worth. And I don't disagree with anything you said in your last post. :grin:

GuitarIv

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2015, 02:40:49 AM »
Well, it's the internet after all, I'd take a pint over it every day hahaha  :tongue:

38thBeatle

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2015, 08:08:25 AM »
A few years ago, the Mrs and I were supposed to be going on a jolly to Switzerland. I was really looking forward to going. There as some terrorist atrocity involving an aeroplane and she was scared stiff of the journey and in spite of my reasoning ( or maybe because of ha ha) we ended up bailing out. The fact that I can't recall the exact atrocity to me says it all. For sure, we have to keep our wits about us but we sacrificed a trip that would , by now, have been a pleasant memory from something I can't even remember now(though I am sure the Mrs could). I am not sure whether there is any point to my ramble except to say that I do not like seeing terrorism "win" but then again, I grew up and have lived in a relatively stable and safe environment all my life so it is easy for me to say.
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dave_mc

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Re: Paris shootings
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2015, 08:07:46 PM »
Well, it's the internet after all, I'd take a pint over it every day hahaha  :tongue:

haha :grin: