Ibanez rgt: soft attack, thin sounding... solutions?

[pcarrion]

Hi everybody,

   First of all, though I’m not new to BKP pickups, this is is my first post. Second, english is not my native language but with your patience and my efforts we could get over the language barrier.

    I bought ten years ago an Ibanez rgt220ANTF: 5pc Maple/Wenge neck-thru, ash body wings, rosewood fretboard, floating trem. The guitar is a shred machine but, as expected from this kind of guitar, is thin sounding. I swapped the original bridge dimarzio/Ibz pickup for a SD Dimebucker (high output and ultra scooped). 2 years ago I decided to change again the pickups looking for a fuller/middier sound. I tried (chronologically):
- SD JB: thin sounding.
- Tonezone: fuller sound but I would say dull or muddy... I don't remember exactly how it was but I didn't like it in this guitar.
- Holydiver: felt like a step in the right path; fuller sound with some edge, but still there was something lacking. I love HDs but in this guitar sounded too much tamed.
- A-Warpig: was a suggestion from the BKP team following the HD path but with more output. And indeed the sound is fuller now, with growl but still... something was missing, and it’s not outuput neither body.

Two days ago I took the guitar to a local luthier and his point of view is that neck-thru guitars have less atack than bolt-on ones. A maple or ebony fretboard would add some snap, but this is not the case. And this soft attack is what I was not fully identifiying and giving different names as dull sounding, lack of aggresivity,... The easier solution –he told me- is swap the alnico magnet for a ceramic, since ceramic pickups are more percussive and with sharper attack.

Any suggestions about pickups? What do you thing about swapping magnets in a warpig? Any thoughts would be welcome. My favourite BKP pickup is the Holy Diver. I have 3 in different guitars (Les Paul custom, fender strat and EVH Charvel). I play mainly through a Kemper (Soldano and hot-rodded Marshall profiles) and George Lynch and others 80s shredders are my heroes.

Thanks,

Paco

[Telerocker]

For this guitar you might want to check out the ceramic or alnico Blackhawk. They have enormous power and clarity, yet clean up good too.

[Dave Sloven]

From what you are saying the Miracle Man bridge might be a good choice

HD/MM comparison video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd6odOQkCtQ

MM/Abraxas/HD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEBGySN6IVE

[ericsabbath]

alnico pig is pretty warm indeed

sounds like a painkiller job
maybe a juggernaut

[pcarrion]

Blackhawks are an obvious choice; power, clarity and the ceramic option could be exactly what I'm looking for. But it's hard to find clips. i always wondered why they don't share the popularity of other BKP metal pickups.
At first I had discarded Juggernauts because I had them labeled as "modern downtuned metal" and that is not my thing. But I have the feeling that tight pickups designed for downtuned guitars can provide the attack I'm missing (even in standard tuning).
I wasn't considering Miracle Man because I thought it was closer to the Dimebucker, but it sounds anything but hollow. I have heard the clips in the BKP website but (If I am right) they were recorded with Les Paul type guitars. I was afraid that with Ibanez RGs the scooped EQ would much more pronounced, but as I said, the sound is beefier than expected. By the way, the HD sounded great, it was not surprise, but the Abraxas... WOW, what a surprise!!
Painkillers... I had a set in a explorer and though being tight and aggresive I'm afraid it will be too bright for this guitar.

[Yellowjacket]

At first I had discarded Juggernauts because I had them labeled as "modern downtuned metal" and that is not my thing. But I have the feeling that tight pickups designed for downtuned guitars can provide the attack I'm missing (even in standard tuning). 

The pickups I've played with the most attack (articulation) are the Rebel Yell and Alnico Nailbomb.  Of course, I realize that these are both entirely useless for what you are wanting but I'm mentioning it for comparison sake.

The Juggerset is very interesting.  I have them in a bolt on guitar so I can't comment on the suitability for your instrument, but I can say this:  They are very musical and responsive pickups.  They can become aggressive if you pick hard and they also really hammer in the low mids.  But I'd quantify them as being more 'balanced' and 'musical' as opposed to straight up aggressive (like the Nailbomb.  I'd imagine the C bomb is even more aggressive than the A-Bomb)

Anyway, can you define what you mean by 'aggressive'?  What amp are you playing into?
Maybe you need an OD pedal?  In my experience, the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is an amp that lacks aggression.  It's saggy, slow, sloppy, and really 'nu-metal' / 90s sounding.  My BKP help A LOT but the character of that amp still remains.  The solution here is to use an OD pedal to hit the front end a bit harder and tighten up the signal overall.  The ReVv Generator amps, by comparison, are urgent, aggressive, and very immediate in the attack where the notes literally jump off the frets.  Is that what you're looking for? 

[Dave Sloven]

I have highlighted the things that suggest the Miracle Man to me in your original text in bold below

5pc Maple/Wenge neck-thru, ash body wings, rosewood fretboard, floating trem. The guitar is a shred machine but, as expected from this kind of guitar, is thin sounding. I swapped the original bridge dimarzio/Ibz pickup for a SD Dimebucker (high output and ultra scooped). 2 years ago I decided to change again the pickups looking for a fuller/middier sound. I tried (chronologically):
- SD JB: thin sounding.
- Tonezone: fuller sound but I would say dull or muddy... I don't remember exactly how it was but I didn't like it in this guitar.
- Holydiver: felt like a step in the right path; fuller sound with some edge, but still there was something lacking. I love HDs but in this guitar sounded too much tamed.
- A-Warpig: was a suggestion from the BKP team following the HD path but with more output. And indeed the sound is fuller now, with growl but still... something was missing, and it’s not outuput neither body.

Two days ago I took the guitar to a local luthier and his point of view is that neck-thru guitars have less atack than bolt-on ones. A maple or ebony fretboard would add some snap, but this is not the case. And this soft attack is what I was not fully identifiying and giving different names as dull sounding, lack of aggresivity,... The easier solution –he told me- is swap the alnico magnet for a ceramic, since ceramic pickups are more percussive and with sharper attack.

I would discuss this with BKP via email if I were you but I suspect what you are missing in the HD is a tighter kick in the bottom end and some crispness in the highs.  The MM has a great reputation with maple neck through body guitars, thinner bodies, and floating trems.  Of the BKPs it is one that is well suited to superstrats, SGs, and other bright instruments.  It's a bit scooped but despite your bad experience with the very scooped Dimebucker I suspect the pronounced bottom and top is part of what you are missing.  The MM will have more 'body' than the Dimebucker and I've seen the MM discussed as almost a ceramic version of a HD.  See for example Slartibartfast42's review of the MM:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28004.0

[pcarrion]

Anyway, can you define what you mean by 'aggressive'?  What amp are you playing into?
Maybe you need an OD pedal?  In my experience, the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is an amp that lacks aggression.  It's saggy, slow, sloppy, and really 'nu-metal' / 90s sounding.  My BKP help A LOT but the character of that amp still remains.  The solution here is to use an OD pedal to hit the front end a bit harder and tighten up the signal overall.  The ReVv Generator amps, by comparison, are urgent, aggressive, and very immediate in the attack where the notes literally jump off the frets.  Is that what you're looking for? 

When I say aggressive I mean this upper mids/high freqs that jump out... someone said "like a pitbull on a leash trying to break free". This was describing a Rebel Yell, that I find more "aggresive" than a Holydiver, having the last more output and being more modern sounding though. I heard/red people using "Hairy" for what I want to say.
I play mainly at home with a Kemper (Slo100 and hot-rod Marshall profiles). I have a Laney IR I used to play live but I pretend to use the kemper live as well. I'm sure that with OD pedals, different amps and tweaking'em I could get closer. But I prefer to keep things as simpler as possible... I know, I'm lazy, and maybe I'm asking too much from a pickup, but I think the pickup is the one link with highest ratio "Influence in the sound"/investment.

I would discuss this with BKP via email if I were you but I suspect what you are missing in the HD is a tighter kick in the bottom end and some crispness in the highs.  The MM has a great reputation with maple neck through body guitars, thinner bodies, and floating trems.  Of the BKPs it is one that is well suited to superstrats, SGs, and other bright instruments.  It's a bit scooped but despite your bad experience with the very scooped Dimebucker I suspect the pronounced bottom and top is part of what you are missing.  The MM will have more 'body' than the Dimebucker and I've seen the MM discussed as almost a ceramic version of a HD. 

Well, after reading the MM review, I'm almost sold on it. Being the HD my favourite pickup, if the MM add some tightness, power and crispness/hairiness/aggression, that's the way to go. I'm going to ask BKP team about it. Thanks a lot.

Paco

[Yellowjacket]

When I say aggressive I mean this upper mids/high freqs that jump out... someone said "like a pitbull on a leash trying to break free". This was describing a Rebel Yell, that I find more "aggresive" than a Holydiver, having the last more output and being more modern sounding though. I heard/red people using "Hairy" for what I want to say.
I play mainly at home with a Kemper (Slo100 and hot-rod Marshall profiles). I have a Laney IR I used to play live but I pretend to use the kemper live as well. I'm sure that with OD pedals, different amps and tweaking'em I could get closer. But I prefer to keep things as simpler as possible... I know, I'm lazy, and maybe I'm asking too much from a pickup, but I think the pickup is the one link with highest ratio "Influence in the sound"/investment.

Pickups do A LOT!

Well, after reading the MM review, I'm almost sold on it. Being the HD my favourite pickup, if the MM add some tightness, power and crispness/hairiness/aggression, that's the way to go. I'm going to ask BKP team about it. Thanks a lot.

Paco

You want hair, crispness, aggression, and Tightness?  Seriously, don't overlook the C-Bomb.  You'll get loads of hair and upper mids!!! 

[pcarrion]

Ceramic Nailbomb!!!

After reading your comment I've looked for reviews and found that:

Ceramic Nailbomb (B) – This was my first BKP. I went from EMGs in 2 different guitars (81, 85x) to this and holy cr@p what a positive difference. It really was like a breath of fresh air after being stuck in a submarine full of farts… or something. I’ve tried it in 2 guitars, both maple neck through w/Floyd, but one was very bright mahogany body (ltd m1000) and the other an alder body (Jackson rr24). I found it to be bordering on too bright in the m1000, maybe even a little brittle at times depending on the amp used, but in the rr24 which is more neutral sounding I found the CNB to really shine. It’s a very metal pickup no doubt, but don’t think it can’t do more than that. I enjoy the clean tone I get out of it, and it even splits well. Granted there are other pickups that can do those things better, but not one that can cover so much ground. Tonally it slices and dices while being hot, thick and full; it’s very articulate and insanely tight and is just metal as all hell. It’s also a very quiet pickup; I find it to have the least background noise out of any pickup I’ve ever tried. I find it almost as tight as the EMG 81, I’d say about 90% as tight, but probably 2-3 times better sounding. It’s very responsive so if you have shiteeeety technique you’ll hear it. Chainsaw-esque sounding… I like it a lot for metal, and for fast tech stuff it really shines.
9/10 for rhythms, 9/10 for leads, 8/10 for cleans.[/i]

It seems to offer what i was looking for in the MM, but with fuller body, and reviewed in maple neck-thru guitars.

[Yellowjacket]

Totally!  Check this video out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2kvQkpz5sM

When I heard these pickups in a Blackmachine BII, I was convinced they are at home in more than a Gibson LP Traditional or an Explorer!

[Dave Sloven]

yeah i'd say it's between the C-Bomb and the MM.  I'd ask BKP for an opinion.  Both will work with your woods and construction

[pcarrion]

And my guess is that ceramic warpig would a step beyond the C-Bomb, being the sequence in increasing mids and lows; Miracle Man, then C-Bomb and finally C-Pig.

[Dave Sloven]

I think the MM and C-Pig are both more scooped than the C-Bomb.  The alnico Warpig is not as middy as the alnico Nailbomb, I know that from owning those two, so I suspect the C-Pig will be a bit more scooped than a C-Bomb.  A lot of people find the C-Pig to be too bassy. Apparently the MM has more bottom end than a C-Bomb.  I'm not sure about that though.  I do know that the A-Bomb has a lot of treble detail, with hairy mids that can tend to be raspy in the wrong instrument.

[pcarrion]

Finally, after asking Ben, I went for the Miracle Man. Now the guitar is refretting. I guess stainless frets will add some snap. When the "reconstruction" work is over I let you know how it sounds.