Holydiver or Miracle Man - A little advice

[neuk01642]

I've been in contact with the good folk at BKP a few times (Ben, very helpful chap).

I've got a PRS SE Tremonti Custom (mahogany body, maple neck, spalted maple top), playing into a Marshall JVM205.

Playing mostly metal (alt mainly - think Tool type tones) with a wandering into more modern sounds (Love the Mastodon/Meshugga tone, not so much for the Periphery sound).

I'm looking to upgrade my pups and wanted something high gain with plenty of bite that avoided the barkiness of the ultra modern toned pickups (Warpig, Juggernaut etc).

Talking to Ben at BKP he suggested the Holydiver and in principle sounds good, just a little concerned they're a little low power (could be wrong on that) and so I was also looking at the Miracle Man.

I'm probably going to do cover bridge and open neck, upgrade my volume pots to 550k and put a couple of 500k push pull taps on the tone. Also upgrading the caps to the Jensens.

So the question is. With that amp and guitar - HOLYDIVER OR MIRACLE MAN??? Or, something completely different

Thanks in advance all.

[Dave Sloven]

Juggernaut, Aftermath, Painkiller, Blackhawk, or even Nailbomb I would call 'modern' ... Warpig really is not modern in that way, at least the alnico version

I tend to agree though that the choice here is probably between the Holy Diver and the Miracle Man.

Holy Divers do seem to have a good track record in PRS guitars

[neuk01642]

Agent Orange.

Thanks for the response.
I thought the Warpigs were super-modern sounding. That insane BARK on the palm mutes!!!

Thanks for the info though. Appreciated.
I love the sound of the Holydivers, but also love the Miracle Man so I'm just weighing up the options and polling opinions.

[neuk01642]

Also probably worth noting I'm playing in Drop C sharp (sorry couldn't find the damn Hash short cut).

[Dave Sloven]

Might depend on the guitar you put them in.  In a Gibson SG the Warpigs sound more bassy than average but otherwise resemble some of the custom pickups of the 1970s in tone.  Not PAF-ish, but not djenty or modern in that way like the Juggernauts etc.  My SG with Warpigs is tuned to C standard, with 11-56 D'Addario EXL117s

[neuk01642]

Oh man, SG with Warpigs! I bet that sounded awesome!!

I've only heard the Warpigs on YouTube and the BKP samples (probably not the best examples).

I'm just looking for a good solid metal sound for my PRS. The pups in it aren't bad but they're lacking in penetration and definition and they just don't thump like I want them to. And they should coming through a JVM 205.

[ericsabbath]

the holy diver is definitely more Toolish, but the miracle man works pretty well for that style too (think Soen, Chevelle and Karnivool)
both sound good for mastodon stuff
for meshuggah I'd definitely pick the miracle man over the holy diver
the miracle man isn't much much hotter than the holy diver, though
both are medium output compared to duncans and dimarzios

[neuk01642]

Thanks Eric.

Sounds like I might be wandering over to the Miracle Man side of the fence for that extra flexibly.
Not sure I need a super-hot set to be honest. The JVM is soooo gain heavy I'm not sure s massively high out put set of pups would just be too much. Does it work like that? High output pups into an already very gain heavy amp equals loads more gain?

Might drop BKP a line and see what they think about the Miracle Man in my set up as it was them who suggested the Holydiver

Thanks again

[Slartibartfarst42]

In some ways the HD and MM are completely different yet in others they are very similar. The MM is very smooth like the HD and is strongly reminiscent of 80s Metal but instead of mids across the board, they move towards the lower mids. Yje HD is better on cleans and has a sweeter tone but the MM is tighter.

[Alfi27]

I would say the Holydiver is quite hot, with medium distance from the strings it still drives the input of my Kemper harder than any of my other guitars. The light turns orange-red ish if I pick hard When it comes to versatility I do not think you can do much better, it is the most versatile high output pickup I have ever played hands down! It can do everything I want it to. When it comes to high output pickups into a high gain amp like a JVM I do not think the output matters too much on the OD-channel, at least the JVM410H I used to own gave me buttloads of gain with any guitar. You might have to turn the gain knob down a tad with higher output pickups, but that's about it. The Miracle Man works well in mahogany guitars as well, but the Holydiver is more powerful in the mids, and gives a more throaty and ballsy sound. And I cannot imagine the MM being more versatile than the HD. The HD might seem like a vintage sounding pickup, but it is in fact not. It is not a modern metal machine (even though it would not have any problem with that), but it is no PAF either. For Meshuggah type of tones you might have use for the extra tight bottom end of a ceramic pickup, even though the Holydiver is plenty tight. And I as a ceramic pickup lover have turned over to tight Alnico V pickups instead for the more organic and awesome thick midrange, and I am not missing anything regarding tightness. I would also like to mention the Cold Sweat as a really good alternative for a mahogany guitar, with ceramic magnet and very tight bottom end. It might be a little bit too bright for the guitar, so you should probably ask the guys at BKP what they think. 

[Dave Sloven]

Oh man, SG with Warpigs! I bet that sounded awesome!!

Sounded pretty good at our jam session last night!  A-Pig in a bright SG is a match made in heaven for doom and sludge metal.  C-Pig or Miracle Man would be better for thrashier stuff.

I don't know about a Cold Sweat in a PRS.  Holy Diver is a safe bet.  MM could work

[neuk01642]

Yep, the pendulum has swung again.

Got an email from BKP (I think they maybe starting to get a little tired of me now ;oD They have been very patient), and the description of the MM put me off a bit.

So back into bed with the HD's I think. Covered in the bridge, open in the neck, push/pull splitters, 550k vol pots and a pair of Jensen cap.

Think that might be my decision.

Thanks for all the advice and input. Really appreciated.

[neuk01642]

So took the plunge now in for a pair of Holydivers. Covered bridge and open neck with 550k pots, Jensen caps and push pull coil split tone pots.

In the cold light of whatever day it was when I coughed up the cash they seemed to make the most sense.
A solid combination of classic and contemporary.

Thanks for all the advice and thanks to the amazingly patient Ben and BKP for putting up with my relentless stream of inane questions (bet he's praying for a pro caller who actually has a clue).

Just be patient until they turn up and I can get them fitted.
Will report back when they're in.

Very very excited!!!

Hate waiting ;oD

[Sarkasis]

The Holydiver is one of my favorites, let us know how it does for you.

[neuk01642]

So they've arrived, they're fitted and they are AMAZING!

I've got covered bridge and open neck, 550k pots on the volume and 500k push/pulls on the tone splitting to the two inside coils.

The first impressions from the few hours I've managed to squeeze in since they arrive is that the Holydivers and BKP's live up to reputation and expectation. They're tight and aggressive but with a warmth and roundness that keeps them from becoming barky and too 'modern' sounding. The amount of added clarity on big chords with high gain is staggering, and I've found myself dropping the gain and all the EQ settings slightly to address the higher output.

Split they sound lovely. I tend to work a clean tone with the neck pup split and the volume rolled off and then use the middle position with the bridge pup not split and it sounds so so good loads of sustain and rich warmth but bright and clear at the top end. Really responsive to pick attack so you can keep it clean (well clean ish) and then dig in and get that pushed-clean/light crunch going on.

Single note stuff sounds beautiful, sustain, clean definition even when you're hammering the gain.

Overall, amazing. Might stick some clips up of before and after at some point but I'd very very much recommend HD's if anyone is looking for a versatile pup that can span aggressive modern to more classic metal tones and still wants the clarity and chime when you clean it up a bit.