HB bridge and P90 neck for a Les Paul

[Cider]

Hi everyone!

I'm a brand new member (and very new to guitars in general). I'm looking into getting a new pickup set for my LP, and I'm toying with the idea of a HB bridge and P90 neck.

So far I'm thinking of a Nailbomb/ Mississippi Queen set, but I love how the Nantucket sounds as well. And then there's the other option, which is go full P90 in both positions.

Would anyone be able to give me some pros and cons for the two options? I'd appreciate any input!

Thank you

[Slartibartfarst42]

I just made a long reply and it didn't post so now you're going to have to get a shorter version!

Firstly, could you give us a bit more information:

1) Is this a Gibson Les Paul or an alternative?
2) What woods are involved and what is the construction?
3) What sort of music will you be playing?
4) Are there any tones you'd like to emulate?
5) What amp are you using.

In general terms, a humbucker bridge and P90 neck will give you a very versatile guitar and to my mind, is an excellent choice if you're fairly new to guitars.

P90

Kiichi will be of more help to you than me but from my perspective, the MQ is an excellent choice. I've tried one in the neck position and it was sublime. I also think the AIV magnet will give you a sweeter tone than the AV used in the neck of the Nantucket.

Humbucker

The Nailbomb can be quite versatile but is also very tight and very aggressive and very hairy. It's not for everyone. Depending on what you're trying to achieve I'd also look at the Mule, Black Dog, Abraxas, Cold Sweat, Rebel Yell and Holydiver.

First off though, answer the questions 

[Kiichi]

What Slarti said is great, as usual. More info is the first thing needed.

MQ pairs well with the NB. IIRC it is one of the combos Matt Belamy from Muse uses. Versatile combo for sure with the NB being a great aggressive rock and metal pickup and the MQ doing anything from cleans and classic rock to proper metal sounds.

P90s are fantastic because they give the definition and clarity of a single coil with all the extended frequency spectrum plus the power and fullness of a humbucker AND add a lovely midrange growl. Their ability to go from screaming to singing with just changes in playing and the guitars controll make them especially excellent in the neck position. True best of both worlds.
In the bridge they are more raw in tone than a humbucker, which would seem more smoothed and compressed by comparison. Boxed in if you will.

However, there are many combos that are awesome. MQ set, NB/MQ, Supermassive or Stockholm / MQ, Abraxxas / MQ, etc.

Thus more info is really important.

And for what it is worth the Nantucket and MQ are pretty similar. I believe to recall that the Nantucket is supposed to be a tad more aggressive though.

[Cider]

Thank you everyone for your replies! Sorry I didn't give more information about my guitar & music, I'll do it right now:

a) It is a Gibson Les Paul studio, and the body is made of mahogany, with a typical mahogany neck/ rosewood fretboard, 24.75" scale.
b) I will be playing mostly (alternative?) rock with the guitar. Think Muse/ Green Day, and 60s British invasion stuff. I have another guitar with an Aftermath/ Trilogy Suite set for more modern sounds.
c) Your descriptions make me really want a P90 in the neck. I wanted the Nailbomb in the bridge because I wanted something very versatile, yet can get aggressive. I have the stock Gibson '57 PUPs in the guitar right now, and to be honest I'm not a fan of how.. "smushed together" everything sounds. I want a more defined pickup - if that makes any sense.

Thank you again!

[Slartibartfarst42]

Mine is a Gibson Les Paul Studio too 

The difference with mine is that it uses a 498T and 490R and it's the first guitar I've been happy to leave stock. I'm not totally happy with the 490R but the 498T is just what I'm after so I've left the guitar alone. As for your guitar, I'm going to stick with my suggestion of a Mississippi Queen in the neck because it will do what you want and my experience is that it's superb. For the bridge, I think you have options galore:

Mule
The epitome of the PAF pickup so certainly at the vintage end of things but also versatile as it will do pretty much anything from Blues to early Ozzy Osbourne. Tim used to use these in an Ozzy tribute band. This would be a VERY popular choice for a Les Paul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9Qyl4bEBVE

The problem is that on this clip most people seem to prefer the 57 rather than the Mule and you already dislike the 57! Use your own ears and come to your own decision.

Abraxas
Forget the Santana reference as that's misleading. Think of it more as a beefed up Mule because in essence, that's what it is. Another very versatile pickup that will go from Blues to early Metal and like the Mule, the AIV magnet gives it a sweet tone.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfANqu0k3qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e2cRu6um6I

A bit more mids and beef to the Abraxas.

Black Dog
It's a bit different this one but could well be right up your street. Some PAF vibe, very versatile and tight enough for endless gain.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I

It always sounds very musical to me this one.

Cold Sweat
For a ceramic pickup, this is incredibly versatile. It has none of the sterility I usually find on ceramics and suits a Les Paul perfectly. It will cover anything from Classic Rock to Metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl2QzOMMm6w

That clip is a 7 string but you get the idea.

Rebel Yell
This is the one I imagine Kiichi will suggest as he loves it and describes it as the perfect synergy of old and new so it has strong PAF characteristics but with a distinctly modern edge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zOouArFDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qum0jkf-bZc

Based on the Nailbombs but not quite as hairy and aggressive

Nailbomb
The most aggressive option you have here. I found it could do anything from Blues Rock to Metal but always had a 90s Metal feel to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2kvQkpz5sM


All this gives you plenty options so it's down to your ears. If it was me, I'd be looking at Black Dog, Cold Sweat or Rebel Yell but that's just me.

[Kiichi]

Alright, that helps a lot. Sticking with the MQ neck then. Imagine youŽd dig it a lot.

As for the bridge Slarti makes great points. However, I will not put the RY in front as much as I often do. Reason is that at least my conception of British invasion is not really befitting this pickup. It can do it in a way, but not optimal. The CS for example would be better, but I recon it could be optimized further.

Should the guitar be really dark maybe have a look at the Emerald bridge. Otherwise, if it is balanced consider the black dog. If balanced or bright the Abraxxas is something I would pick over the Mule here. Generally a tad more versatile for what you want than the Mule, and fitting the MQ neck better in terms of balance. If you were to wire up the middle with a parallel or split abraxxas that would really cover a ton of ground.

Finally an MQ set would be great too. Now, to be fair, a P90 bridge is a bigger departure from the norm than a neck, as neck SCs are more common, but it is more than valid. That certain raw sound that is essential to so much Muse stuff is the P90 sound and thus the MQ. Green Day with a touch extra original punk? MQ.

Essentially what I am saying is: Have a listen. IŽd recon either the MQ set or a MQ neck with Abraxxas bridge should be for you. If you really want that raw sound that you find in Muse and you like it after listeing to P90 samples go for that imho. If you are not sure you canŽt go wrong with the Abraxxas bridge either.



Also, if you were to go MQ set IŽd advise to install a push pull to have the middle position switch from series to parallel. It adds a lot of versatility imho. The possibility for a P90 "super humbucker" is lovely.

[Alfi27]

If you play anything rock, and especially Green Day stuff I will really recommend a set of P90s! Especially because you have another guitar for more modern sounds. Your statement " I wanted the Nailbomb in the bridge because I wanted something very versatile, yet can get aggressive." sounds like how I would describe the Nantucket, but it is a lot more vintage sounding than the Nailbomb of course. No problems playing metal with it though. I was considering asking the BKP guys if they could make the Mississippi Queen set in regular P90 size, but I just got another set of Nantuckets because I like them so much. The MQs are more than likely super awesome as well! Worst case scenario, BKP has a stellar return policy (which I recently took advantage of). Every guitarist should experience the magic of P90s at least once; they are truly something special

[Dave Sloven]

The Cold Sweat bridge is very versatile and can do aggressive sounds like Pantera or Metallica when needed.  Be aware though that the high end is a bit 'crispy' and if that's not your thing the little bit of crispiness there will niggle at you.  I really don't think the Nailbomb is what you want.  To be honest if you are going down that route I would suggest the Stockholm instead.  It is an aggressive pickup with lots of bottom end but not quite as hairy as the Nailbomb.

In a LP Studio you might find that the Rebel Yell and Emerald lack bottom end.

[Cider]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for the time you've put into writing such detailed replies. You guys are wonderful 

Okay, so I'm really leaning towards a P90 set, since the other guitar with an Aftermath bridge can handle most things. What is the difference between the MQ and Nantucket bridge? The graphs for them are identical - although I do hear that the MQ has a tiny bit more twang, whereas the Nantucket is a bit tighter?

I read that the Nantucket is voiced after the LP P90's - does anyone have a comparison between the two? The thing is, my boyfriend just got me a used LP Special Double Cut with 2 P90's earlier today (it'll be here next week, yay!) and I'm debating whether to use the stock pickups or upgrade to BKP. I have no doubt about BKP's quality, but I haven't owned a P90 guitar before so I'm not sure what to expect.

Now back to the LP Studio. Since I have another guitar with P90 coming, it seems a bit... wasteful (?) to put a MQ set in this, don't you think? I want to badly (since Matt Bellamy does use it a lot), but if the Nantucket and MQ aren't *that* much different then perhaps Nantuckets in the Doublecut would do for now.

Maybe I should annoy/beg/harass Ben enough to get an MQ set in P90 size, hmmmmmm

[metale]

I would go MQ set.

About pairing with humbuckers: I have a MQ neck which overpowered a Black Dog but currently it pairs with an Abraxas which can hang with it.

So I think a Mule would struggle with it.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm actually secretly pleased that Kiichi moved away from the RY more than I expected because of the three I suggested, it's the one I was least convinced by. My LP Studio is far from being dark and I don't see an Emerald working in it so if yours is the same, I'd steer clear. I think the MQ neck is nailed on but personally I'd stick with a humbucker in the bridge. Why? Because an Aftermath has a very distinct sound and while there will obviously be some crossover, something like a Cold Sweat, Black Dog or Abraxas will offer you a very different palette of tones as the Aftermath is very modern whereas these three have more vintage characteristics and believe it or not, will cover far more ground. Of these three, the Cold Sweat is closest to the Aftermath but that's only because it sounds that bit more modern than the other two. It's still a damn site more vintage sounding than the Aftermath. The Black Dog has a unique sound all of its own going on so that will certainly be different. The Abraxas is also AIV so probably has the sweetest and most vintage tone but with some balls but I'm left thinking that if you're considering a P90 set, you might find the Abraxas a bit too smooth. I'd go either Black Dog or Cold Sweat with a MQ in the neck before I'd go with a P90 set for these reasons but obviously it's not my guitar so it's your choice. A P90 set will be good but I don't see it being as versatile as a humbucker/P90 set.

[Kiichi]

I'm actually secretly pleased that Kiichi moved away from the RY more than I expected because of the three I suggested, it's the one I was least convinced by. My LP Studio is far from being dark and I don't see an Emerald working in it so if yours is the same, I'd steer clear. I think the MQ neck is nailed on but personally I'd stick with a humbucker in the bridge. Why? Because an Aftermath has a very distinct sound and while there will obviously be some crossover, something like a Cold Sweat, Black Dog or Abraxas will offer you a very different palette of tones as the Aftermath is very modern whereas these three have more vintage characteristics and believe it or not, will cover far more ground. Of these three, the Cold Sweat is closest to the Aftermath but that's only because it sounds that bit more modern than the other two. It's still a damn site more vintage sounding than the Aftermath. The Black Dog has a unique sound all of its own going on so that will certainly be different. The Abraxas is also AIV so probably has the sweetest and most vintage tone but with some balls but I'm left thinking that if you're considering a P90 set, you might find the Abraxas a bit too smooth. I'd go either Black Dog or Cold Sweat with a MQ in the neck before I'd go with a P90 set for these reasons but obviously it's not my guitar so it's your choice. A P90 set will be good but I don't see it being as versatile as a humbucker/P90 set.

I do love the RY, true, but it has its place and this seemed not to be it. Though that might have changed. Let me elaborate.

Seeing as an additional full P90 guitar has come into play things are different now. IŽd say play the stocks on that for a bit to get a feel of the area. Then imagine what you are getting a couple of times better and with more character. For upgrade then either MQ or NT will do very nicely. Still not sure on the difference. Best to shoot BKP a mail on that.

For the current one then I am inclined to put the RY into consideration again. That is if I consider the AM guitar the metal one and imagine the P90 one will go the way of a rock machine. If we were then to go for a middle ground one, which does rock and metal and has a different flavor, then the RY is valid again. It would deliver a clear rock voice made for LPs that is faithfully bringing a classic tone to the modern era. Amazing upper mid spike that just screams rock. It however is rivaled by the Coldsweat (which is more scooped in a natural way), a strong contender here, which will deliver amazing rock tones too and does not sound very ceramic. Both of these also have exellent metal qualities in different ways and both are separate from the AM character. If we also throw in an MQ the CS will get you the most different tone.

The Black Dog also stands as valid, as does the Abraxxas, but if we look at the three guitar picture I recon either CS or RY will fare better. That is all bridge talk btw, the set necks are great, but there are options there.

And I must disagree that the CS would be closest to the AM btw, as the AM is extreeeeemely center mid heavy and the CS has a scooped tendency. In handling they might not be worlds apart, but in terms of tone there is daylight there. A good bit of it.

[Dave Sloven]

This is the Cold Sweat bridge pickup.

Out of all of the ceramic pickups in the range it has the best clean tones but can get aggressive when it needs to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cneTNpVmAos

[Slartibartfarst42]

And I must disagree that the CS would be closest to the AM btw, as the AM is extreeeeemely center mid heavy and the CS has a scooped tendency. In handling they might not be worlds apart, but in terms of tone there is daylight there. A good bit of it.

Yes, and I agree in that regard, I was only saying that between the CS, RY, BD and AB, the CS is the most modern in character and as such is closer to the AM. I'm certainly not suggesting they're bedfellows in any way because they're certainly different but pickups like the AB, BD and the RY, all have more PAF DNA in them and thus, in my mind at least, are further away from the AM.

[Cider]

Hi everyone! Thank you all again for your answers. I'm sorry for the delay between mine - I have a literature review due in about 12 hours so it's been tough for me to gather my thoughts about anything not related to economics xP

Also, if you were to go MQ set IŽd advise to install a push pull to have the middle position switch from series to parallel. It adds a lot of versatility imho. The possibility for a P90 "super humbucker" is lovely.

I totally missed this. Could you elaborate on the push pull stuff a bit (or show me a diagram)? I have no experience with series/ parallel, but since I'm getting the other guitar with P90 (which I'll hopefully upgrade soon) I might as well get the most fun out of it!

I would go MQ set.

I really should ask Ben about the possibility of an MQ set in normal soapbar size (for the new P90 guitar). I know that the neck's have different magnets, but the graphs are identical and both bridges have the same Alnico V magnet. Hmm

I'm actually secretly pleased that Kiichi moved away from the RY more than I expected because of the three I suggested, it's the one I was least convinced by. My LP Studio is far from being dark and I don't see an Emerald working in it so if yours is the same, I'd steer clear. I think the MQ neck is nailed on but personally I'd stick with a humbucker in the bridge. Why? Because an Aftermath has a very distinct sound and while there will obviously be some crossover, something like a Cold Sweat, Black Dog or Abraxas will offer you a very different palette of tones as the Aftermath is very modern whereas these three have more vintage characteristics and believe it or not, will cover far more ground. Of these three, the Cold Sweat is closest to the Aftermath but that's only because it sounds that bit more modern than the other two. It's still a damn site more vintage sounding than the Aftermath. The Black Dog has a unique sound all of its own going on so that will certainly be different. The Abraxas is also AIV so probably has the sweetest and most vintage tone but with some balls but I'm left thinking that if you're considering a P90 set, you might find the Abraxas a bit too smooth. I'd go either Black Dog or Cold Sweat with a MQ in the neck before I'd go with a P90 set for these reasons but obviously it's not my guitar so it's your choice. A P90 set will be good but I don't see it being as versatile as a humbucker/P90 set.

I do love the RY, true, but it has its place and this seemed not to be it. Though that might have changed. Let me elaborate.

Seeing as an additional full P90 guitar has come into play things are different now. IŽd say play the stocks on that for a bit to get a feel of the area. Then imagine what you are getting a couple of times better and with more character. For upgrade then either MQ or NT will do very nicely. Still not sure on the difference. Best to shoot BKP a mail on that.

For the current one then I am inclined to put the RY into consideration again. That is if I consider the AM guitar the metal one and imagine the P90 one will go the way of a rock machine. If we were then to go for a middle ground one, which does rock and metal and has a different flavor, then the RY is valid again. It would deliver a clear rock voice made for LPs that is faithfully bringing a classic tone to the modern era. Amazing upper mid spike that just screams rock. It however is rivaled by the Coldsweat (which is more scooped in a natural way), a strong contender here, which will deliver amazing rock tones too and does not sound very ceramic. Both of these also have exellent metal qualities in different ways and both are separate from the AM character. If we also throw in an MQ the CS will get you the most different tone.

The Black Dog also stands as valid, as does the Abraxxas, but if we look at the three guitar picture I recon either CS or RY will fare better. That is all bridge talk btw, the set necks are great, but there are options there.

And I must disagree that the CS would be closest to the AM btw, as the AM is extreeeeemely center mid heavy and the CS has a scooped tendency. In handling they might not be worlds apart, but in terms of tone there is daylight there. A good bit of it.

Thank you to both of you!

I don't want to waste the 2 humbuckers just for the MQ set - if the NT is so close (or if I can get Ben to make me soapbar MQ's :P) - and so "classic humbuckers" would be nice (if they even exist). I'm sure the new guitar with the P90 will be a nice rockmachine - you're right Kiichi. I'm so divided on the humbucker sets though - there are so many and everyone seems to recommend all of them (!) Since the guitar with the AM/TS set does dark tones really well, I might be looking for a brighter sound in this - one where higher notes don't squeal/ hurt. Does something like that exist?

Also, since I broke the split shaft of a Les Paul with some set screws (don't ask - long story, short story is I'm not very bright) I'll need to rewire the guitar. Would you recommend 50s wiring? That looks like it's the easiest, but I haven't seen diagrams where I could split the coils. I didn't care for coil splitting, but I had the AM split anyway (just because). To my surprise, the split AM + TS combination sounds really, really good. I had not expected this at all, since the LP's 57 PUPs are just mehhhhhh at best when split. Starting to think that I might get some really great combinations splitting BKP PUPs here. Perhaps an MQ in the neck and something that'll mix well with it split so I get another amazing hum-cancelling sound? :P