Pickups for PRS McCarty/DGT

[skeeter]

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a PRS DGT (the David Grissom sig).  I've owned one in the past and if I get another I definitely would like different pickups.  This is driven a lot by the weak neck pickup that comes stock - it really doesn't balance that well with the stock DGT bridge which is like a hot PAF.  The stock neck is an A2 and is just too weak and muddy - common complaint amongst PRS people.

Moreover, I'm now spoiled with BKPs after putting an Emerald/Crawler combo in my Custom 24 to awesome results and want to put them in anything where I'm not totally sold on the stock pups. 

So I really want to try the VHII's.  I hear people say the DC resistance listed is a bit misleading as it's a really powerful pickup.  I'm not exactly sure how to take that - but a 'brown sound' bridge pickup seems like a pretty clear point of reference, which I would really dig.  I want a solid, rounded rock guitar, not so much metal.  I would think the VHII bridge should be in the same hot PAF ballpark as the stock DGT (hopefully a little hotter?), just better and more defined cause it's BKP 

Now, I'm more confused when it comes with the neck.  I hear the VHII neck recommended for shred types sometimes - again citing that they're more powerful than the numbers would indicate.  I would like to retain more of a creamy LP neck sound that Grissom had intended - I guess in my head like a Warren Haynes/Bonamassa neck tone.  I know it's a PRS, but with the right set up in a McCarty-based model, you can kinda cop those types of tones.  So I'm wondering if something like The Mule, another BKP I'm dying to try, would be a better fit for the neck as a truer PAF?  Or even the Abraxas if balancing with the bridge is an issue.  Is the VHII neck designed to be bright?

Also, the DGT electronics are great for splits (using that resistor method), so it's important that the pickups split well.  The stock pickups easily cop a Tele and Strat in the bridge and neck split, respectively and I don't want to lose that.  And the ability to clean up/vary via the volume knob is crucial as you actually get two vol. knobs on a DGT, a rarity for a double cut PRS. I imagine just based on the style of EVH that the VHII's do this well?

So curious what you guys think, and as I put in the subject line, any experience with the McCarty is just as helpful as it's the exact the same body type and woods.  One caveat- the DGT I'm looking at has a Korina neck - which I assume might just brighten the guitar a bit compared to mahogany.  Probably not enough to really change this pickup search.  A VHII bridge/Mule neck seems like a cool idea on paper, but what do you BKP gurus think?

Thanks for an input!

[darkbluemurder]

You raised quite a few points.

So I really want to try the VHII's.  I hear people say the DC resistance listed is a bit misleading as it's a really powerful pickup.  I'm not exactly sure how to take that - but a 'brown sound' bridge pickup seems like a pretty clear point of reference, which I would really dig.  I want a solid, rounded rock guitar, not so much metal.  I would think the VHII bridge should be in the same hot PAF ballpark as the stock DGT (hopefully a little hotter?), just better and more defined cause it's BKP 

The DC resistance is misleading compared to the other models in the vintage hot and contemporary categories as they are all wound with thinner wire. Thinner wire has more DC resistance. The VHII bridge is basically a hot PAF but a loud and bright one. It will work well in a guitar with a strong midrange focus so it could be a good choice for a PRS which tend to have a midrange focus. I have used it in two different guitars with very mixed results - I love it in one guitar but did not care for it in the other so it's a bit finnicky about the guitar it's in. The Abraxas bridge is less finnicky in that regard - that one sounded good wherever I tried it.

Now, I'm more confused when it comes with the neck.  I hear the VHII neck recommended for shred types sometimes - again citing that they're more powerful than the numbers would indicate.  I would like to retain more of a creamy LP neck sound that Grissom had intended - I guess in my head like a Warren Haynes/Bonamassa neck tone.  I know it's a PRS, but with the right set up in a McCarty-based model, you can kinda cop those types of tones.  So I'm wondering if something like The Mule, another BKP I'm dying to try, would be a better fit for the neck as a truer PAF?  Or even the Abraxas if balancing with the bridge is an issue.  Is the VHII neck designed to be bright?

The VHII neck has good output for that position and balances easier with a hotter bridge pickup. It can be creamy but you may have to use the tone pot for that, even though I would not call it bright as such. When I had it in the neck position of my Les Paul I noticed a smoky characterisitic which others have noticed too, and not everybody liked it. I did but if creamy is your goal Abraxas neck might do that better. Cannot comment about the Mule neck - never played one. 

Also, the DGT electronics are great for splits (using that resistor method), so it's important that the pickups split well.  The stock pickups easily cop a Tele and Strat in the bridge and neck split, respectively and I don't want to lose that.  And the ability to clean up/vary via the volume knob is crucial as you actually get two vol. knobs on a DGT, a rarity for a double cut PRS. I imagine just based on the style of EVH that the VHII's do this well?

The VHII neck does the split tones well in my PRS Custom, as does the Abraxas set in my Tele Gib.

Cheers Stephan

[ericsabbath]

Spec-wise the black dog set seems closer to the DGT stock pups ballpark
I'd guess soundwise too

the VHII's are quite percussive sounding pickups, with lots of picking attack, punchy bass and slightly recessed midrange
they're like metal voiced riff raffs
not really a fluid and middy "brown sound", which kinda steps onto the black dogs lawn, in my opinion

[skeeter]

Spec-wise the black dog set seems closer to the DGT stock pups ballpark
I'd guess soundwise too

the VHII's are quite percussive sounding pickups, with lots of picking attack, punchy bass and slightly recessed midrange
they're like metal voiced riff raffs
not really a fluid and middy "brown sound", which kinda steps onto the black dogs lawn, in my opinion

Interesting, I've never really considered the Black Dogs, cause I just assume it's a Jimmy Page thing.  I'm not sure if a DGT really needs a boost in mids, being the thicker variant of PRS mahogany/maple cap.  But if they're recommended for LP's then obviously they'd work.  Thanks. 

And it's funny, what you describe about percussive riffing and recessed midrange - to me sounds like the "brown sound".  It's slightly scooped and designed to have the attack of Al's snare (per old EVH interviews).  But all these things are subjective - to me the brown sound is epitomized best by his tone  on "Fair Warning" with Mean Street, Unchained, etc...

[pac90]

I had the mules set in a bernie, for comparison, and found the split weak - thats without DGT wiring, but have read that they split good with mimiced DGT wiring. Folk used same resistor values to good effect

Tried the BK freeway route instead, and the parallel outercoils setting was my favourite

[skeeter]

Thinking about this some more, I think I'll have to just save the VHII's for a different guitar, something closer to a superstrat.

I think I really just want this DGT for a hot blues/rock tone a la Gary Moore/Warren Haynes/Bonamassa/Slash.  And it seems like the Black Dogs or Abraxas make the most sense. 

The DGT electronics with the resistors help with splitting, but in regards to the above post, I imagine since these pickups are hotter than the Mules they might also just might be naturally be better split?

I've heard clips of the Abraxas before and I always liked them - nice singing vocal quality.  Really explored the Black Dogs more and was really impressed how great they sound, at least in LPs - really a lot of bark and attitude, but without being too shrill or honky.   I don't know about how they work PRSi, but McCarty's are in the same ballpark, as much as a 25" inch scale double cut can be I guess    Maybe Abraxas are more of a natural fit in PRSi?

So what do you guys think between BDs and Abraxas?  Good experiences, bad? 

Thanks!

[pcarrion]

Two days ago in another thread I was praising the Abraxas. I was a teenager in the 80s, so I lean towards high output pickups. I had a set of Mules in a LP and they were great but I wanted something with more muscle. Ben recommended me the Abraxas or, if I really wanted to go a step further, tighter and aggresive, the Rebel Yell. I went for the Rebel Yell and indeed they are what they promised, but I missed the dynamics and airier tone of the Mule. These tones that really shine when you play, not just clean but with saturated tones without being high gain. The Abraxas covers perfectly this rock-hot blues sound, and of course delivers with high gain (if you are not looking for the tightest rythm) and really good cleans.

I'm sorry but I've never tried the BD.

[PhilKing]

I have BKP's in all my PRS guitars.  I have the VHII's in my ME II and the sound is great, the splits work really well on them and you can get a nice thinner sound for Fendery tones.  Just remember to let Bare Knuckle know you want them for a PRS, so they can flip one of the magnets.   Before I put them in the ME, I had them in my Artist II, but I swapped them out for Mules.  I thought the VHII's had a bit too much bass in the Artist.  I have an Abraxas set in my singlecut, and like the PAF sound with drive that they give in it.  I had Rebel Yells in my standard, and am thinking that I will go back to them (I have Riff Raff's in it at the moment).  The standard really works with a brighter pickup, as it is all mahogany.

I play classic rock and blues, with a bit of more modern tracks from the 90's.  I think any of the BK's you are looking at will work well.  I have Black Dogs in a Les Paul and they are excellent pickups.

[Telerocker]

I play Mules in all mahogany Saint Blues and they are in the ballpark of the styles and guitarists you mention. I don't split them because lots of vintagepickups don't split nice to my ears. The middle position though is heavenly crisp. If you want more mids and a bit more output go Abraxas, that's in fact a hotrodded Mule. You sacrifice (only) a little of that yummy openness Mules have.

[darkbluemurder]

I think I really just want this DGT for a hot blues/rock tone a la Gary Moore/Warren Haynes/Bonamassa/Slash.  And it seems like the Black Dogs or Abraxas make the most sense. 

I've heard clips of the Abraxas before and I always liked them - nice singing vocal quality.  Really explored the Black Dogs more and was really impressed how great they sound, at least in LPs - really a lot of bark and attitude, but without being too shrill or honky.   I don't know about how they work PRSi, but McCarty's are in the same ballpark, as much as a 25" inch scale double cut can be I guess    Maybe Abraxas are more of a natural fit in PRSi?

So what do you guys think between BDs and Abraxas?  Good experiences, bad? 

I have both sets. Both are good, depending on what you want for your particular axe. The Abraxas set is noticeably hotter and splits very well - even the neck pickup. The Black Dog is a bit less compressed in the normal humbucking mode, and the bridge pickup is a good bit brighter than the Abraxas bridge. It's definitely not shrill though.

I have not tried to split the BD neck but I have the BD bridge in one guitar where I can split it. While the BD's split tone can be made to work I don't think that it excels there - either with or without the resistor. So if split tones are important to you, Abraxas would be the better choice.

Cheers Stephan