Modelling VS. Real amps

[sambo]

ok should have done this long ago...

what are they pros/cons of the systems below:

SYSTEM 1 : guitar----any effects pedals----amp (probably valve)

SYSTEM 2 : guitar----multi effects unit/pre-amp such as GT-8, Tonelab, POD XT Live----keyboard/PA amp such as kx1200 OR PA system OR stereo/hi-fi speakers.


i know theres gonna be issue with the actual sound of the modellers because they may never quite live up to the tone of the amp, but what are the other pros/cons?

has anyone on here been converted from modellers to amps or vice versa?[/i]

[willo]

digital will be cheaper, lighter in weight (and theferore should be easier to move around), and probably easier to maintain. However, digital can be really awkward to program unless the interface is easy to use. Valve amps will generally be simpler, more responsive to your guitar and are thought to sound better, but of course then you get into the complicated world of valves, replacement, bias and all that (costs money too).

[sambo]

thanks willo mate. never thought about interface... your right though..... my little zoom is a BITCH to program/edit sounds on but thats ok cause i only use it for a bit of home practising... but the thought of doing that for my main 'amp' is horrifying....

and portability is fairly important... although my budget wouldnt allow a stack or anything so even valve amps would be transportable for me...

[screamingdaisy]

The nice thing about modelling is that it's lightwieght and generally pretty cheap.  You can go to most clubs and DI strait into their board, or plug into a home stereo, or a power PA.....so they're pretty flexible.  They're great if you need access to a large number of sounds and mediocre quality isn't an issue.

A valve amp on the other hand has tone.  They're heavier, more expensive, require maintinance, you have to drag around a cab with it, and you (generally) have more sound issues due to the need to mic.  That said, a valve amp has tone, is more touch responsive, and a greater range of sounds within one sound (if that makes sense).  Where they really shine IMO is in their dynamics......models, no matter how good tend to sound somewhat flat.  Valve amps on the other hand (when turned up) have an immediacy that'll kick you in the balls.

[Kilby]

Stuff like digital modeling is very useful if you play a lot of cover versions, covering a wide range of sounds with (hopefully) little fuss and expense. Thats ofcourse if you are into the soundalike playing mode.

If you are playing your own material (or perhaps in a tribute band) where most of the material has similar  tones then the one quality amp plus basic pedals will cover your needs.

Yes you can cover a lot of ground with single pedals and a good amp (or two), but you will be making a lot of unsuitable purchases until you get to the correct choices and therefore very expensive.

Have a think about what sort of material you are likely to be playing over the next couple of years, if you aren't 100% sure then strongly consider the digital route as it will not be so limiting should you change direction.

Rob...

[sambo]

well my band will be mostly playing our own material (classic to hard rock) and a few covers along the same lines...

but even then our style varies... we do a lot of clean stuff so thats important... and our 'rock' ranges from heavy stuff to like old AC/DC....

then at home i practise all kinda of stuff... ive recently got into metal a lot more.... but again, i play lots of clean stuff and anything distorted beyond 'crunch' kind of overdriven tones (i never play anything bluesy to mildly overdriven) its either a varied degree of distortion or sparkly clean.....

your last sentance was interesting rob....

[Dakine]

Sam, you are 15/60yo.
In all honesty/likelihood this will NOT be your "lifelong" band.
What Rob is saying is what was brought up in another thread about Booteek pedals  :roll:
A modellor is a great TOOL!
It allows for FUN
It allows for experimentation
It eases "cover song" playing
It is more portable
It has amp modelling and effects.

At your age (primarily learning,playing at home,jamming) I would have loved summit like the GT8.

Just a thought.

[Kilby]

your last sentance was interesting rob....

Which last sentence, the tagline (been using it for 4 weeks now) it the 100% sure.

If you are moving from clean to classic rock, to heavy to metal then no one amp really gives you all of those. Even in clean sounds, theres fender clean, AC30 TB clean and jazz clean, and even I can hear the difference.

Even with Dave Gilmours pedalboard anyway, and even then you still don't have the metal option or all those cleans

I think you may have answered the question for yourself.

Rob...

[sambo]

kool thanks nick ^. great advice from all you guys thanks.

woah thats scary lol thinking that this couldnt be my life long band... although i spose its entirely possible that we could split at any time

[screamingdaisy]

The beauty of a good modeller is that you get a little bit of everything, and in the process you'll learn what kind of tones you like.  When the time comes it'll makes choosing the right valve amp a little bit easier.

[Kilby]

woah thats scary lol thinking that this couldnt be my life long band... although i spose its entirely possible that we could split at any time

Could be the same band but playing different music, possibly a change of direction, or possibly for money so you can afford that Diesel or Hiwatt amp.

Rob...

[sambo]

^ good point!.....  :D thats a good way to look at it

[dave_mc]

If you are moving from clean to classic rock, to heavy to metal then no one amp really gives you all of those. Even in clean sounds, theres fender clean, AC30 TB clean and jazz clean, and even I can hear the difference.

Engl...

But yeah, it's true, with engl you aren't getting all the tones- you're getting one very good clean, one very good crunch, one very good harder crunch, and one excellent high gain sound, but you aren't going to get the variation of a modeller.

However, the engl will still sound like a "real" valve amp (because it is, lol). And a modeller won't.

best of both worlds, IMO- but that's my opinion, and someone else may hate an engl, lol.

:D

[sambo]

lol kool cheers dave... im really thinking hard bout this....

all robs posts seem to be a millisecond before mine so i never see em!!!!

wise words rob.... and everyone... i cant keep up!!!!

i would love a valve amp.... but i think im rushing a bit.... i dunno...  not rushing because im 'not ready' (well in a sense thats why) but because in a few years time i may HATE what the ENGL is best at...... i need to find my feet in the tone world first...

and daisy summed it up perfectly when he said that a modeller will let me explore and find what i want from an amp.... then in a few years time... ill know exactly what i want... (which could be a poewrball, jcm800, triple recatifier e.t.c e.t.c)

[Kilby]

Dave,

I agree with you for the most part, but sort of view the moddeling as a solution to cover a lot of ground at reasionable cost until Sam finds his ideal amp.

I chopped a line from an earlier message which was along the lines of theres nothing wrong with digital + super clean amp for covers, and a good valve amp for when you want to sound like yourself would be the perfect solution (but perhaps a little premature).

I'm just trying to be sensible (a rare enough occurence) and give enough space for Sam to find his perfect amp and the time to save for it.

Personally I want a little ole Fender amp like Billy Gibbons, a Marshall Bluesbreaker, AC 30TB and a Mesa Boogie Mk1, but even at my advanced age it ain't happening. I may get myself a Mini Mat or somthing equally nice but I ain't getting the whole set :(

I'm certainly not dismissing the abilitys of the Engel.

Rob...