JCM 2000 Crunch vs. 2203x

[GuitarIv]

Hey guys,

lately I find myself pretty much only playing the green channel on my Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100, wether it's set to clean with a slight push from a pedal or on crunch mode boosted, I kinda ignore the OD mode on it more and more. This got me thinking.

Now I do appreciate all the options I have with the DSL, the reverb is nice and the OD1 mode can do metal just fine, however I have my ENGL Savage for all the heavier stuff and everytime I plug into the Marshall I instantly start playing Blues, Rock and Hard Rock, I never go heavier than early Metallica on it. So do I really need all the versatility on the DSL?

I'm kinda trying to justify a purchase here, I wanna get myself one of those JCM 800 reissues. Now before anybody tells me to get an original 80s 2203: I really want an FX Loop and If I ever decide to get the thing modded I don't wanna have somebody drill holes into an old and valuable vintage amp. Plus I don't have the time to go test drive all the old ones to seperate the good ones from the dogs, the consistency on the Reissues seems to be better and I really liked the clips I heard so far.

Now on to the actual question:

Is the 800 tighter and more responsive than the green channel on the DSL? That's the only problem I have: I could use a tighter bass response, at the same time I wanna make sure it gets the same amount of gain and saturation as the DSL does when pushed with a Tubescreamer on crunch so I still have the option to play my early metal stuff on it.

How close is the JCM 2000 DSL 100 crunch channel dimed and boosted to a max gained and pushed 2203? What would I gain if I went for the 800? (apart from the better build quality and the satisfaction of being able to say "yeah man I own a JCM 800" :P)


Thanks in advance and cheers!

[CommonCourtesy]

I remember posting a thread about this a few years ago. Seen many heavier sounding bands ditch their high gain modern amps in favour of JCM800's and more vintage sounding amps with a "cleaner" type gain, i.e. the crunch channel but pushing it with an OD. The result is a more punchy clearer sound esp on chords and still sounds as big.

I used to own a JCM2000 but in an old band almost always used the OD1 channel. I had the gain on 5 and kicked on a tubescreamer for solos, it sounded pretty good. But I sold it 3 years ago so I won't be able to try out the green channel with the crunch button pushed in.
I own a 6505+ now and tried playing on the rhythm channel with the gain on 5/6 but it didn't do it for me.

A Marshall has richer mids and maybe more of a creamier gain so I imagine it'd sound pretty good. What OD are you going to run through it? I've used tubescreamers, Full Tone OCD's and the Zakk Wylde overdrive. All sounded good.

[gwEm]

its hard to compare the two. they both sound like a Marshall, but you wouldn't confuse the two if you had them next to each other.

the JCM800 2203 is more open sounding, less compressed, brighter, and has more "bollocks" than the DSL crunch channel.

the JCM800 2203 isn't particularly tight. its fine for classic rock, but for that tight metal sound you need a pedal.

[gwEm]

bear in mind, unless you do a little mod to the JCM800 it gets quite alot brighter as you turn the gain down

furthermore, it doesn't get much louder once you push the master past around 4 or 5

also the high and low sensitivity inputs are quite unbalanced in terms of volume.

the modern one has these on the old girl, plus multiple channel etc etc

but the JCM800 has that 'force of nature' tone.

[GuitarIv]

It's not that I don't like the DSL, it's just that I don't seem to use it like I did when I got it and that got me thinking. Playing only the green channel and doing all the rest with the pots on my guitar, my Tubescreamer pedals (CC: I use either an Ibanez TS9-DX or a Digitech Bad Monkey depending on the sound I'm going for) and my picking dynamics it really makes me yearn for the 2203. Kinda having less fancy features on the amp and a simpler setup so I'm forced to use my technique to squeeze different sounds out of it.

I won't lie, I'm pretty much set on getting the JCM 800 as soon as I can afford it. Plenty of them floating around on Ebay (most of them in Germany though, so I will need to drive there from Austria sooner or later), even found one vertical input one from the early 80s with an added FX Loop for 900 bucks. I just kinda wanna know if I should first sell the DSL and then get the JCM or save up a bit longer so I have them side by side and then ditch one or maybe even keep both.

I just wanna make sure buying the JCM is justified, if it will give me a similar yet improved sound over the green channel on the DSL and still be able to get into metal territory with a Tubescreamer or a SD-1 haha 

[gwEm]

I have the feeling you'd like the no-nonsense roar of the JCM800.

But it has some disadvantages over the DSL, which I (like you) think is a good amp.

Your plan to try them side by side seems like a good way to go.

[gwEm]

Its too soon really to be discussing mods to the 2203. But there is an easy one which makes a big difference. There is a 1nF bright capacitor soldered directly to the back of the gain pot. I would suggest switching this out to a 100pF capacitor.

Learnt this mod from HTH Amps on this forum years ago. Its very easy to do and makes the gain control usable, rather than just diming it all the time.

[dave_mc]

It's not that I don't like the DSL, it's just that I don't seem to use it like I did when I got it and that got me thinking.

I'm kind of the same with my amps, but I haven't done anything yet. I also have never seemed to get round to trying an 800- always seemed to be something in the shop I wanted to try more. I do have a Laney GH50L, which as far as I'm aware, is more or less a hot-rodded 800, but then it has a fair bit more gain than a regular 800 (far as I'm aware).

I suspect gwEm is on the money- if you can thole at all and can wait to save up to get the 800 without selling your DSL, that would be the thing. Nothing really compares to trying things head to head, the way you'd usually use them.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I can't really comment on the 800 but I remember when I had a DSL for a while, although the higher gain channels were fine, I got a far tighter and crisper distortion if I used a cleaner setting and shoved a half decent pedal in front of it. Once I made that discovery, I stopped worrying too much about getting an amp with loads of gain on it. My last proper valve amp was an Orange TH30 which has absolutely loads of gain on it and sounded superb but I still kept the gain dialled back and used pedals to boost things into the gain territory I was after. These days I use an Atomic AmpliFire for my amp tones and I love it so much I have no intention at all of returning to valve amps but even here, I find it works best if I keep the gain on the amp model down and boost it with an overdrive of some sort. I think that the answer to your question from my perspective is that loads of modern amps have masses of gain available because that's what the market is currently demanding but the reality is that, regardless of the amp you're using, you get better results if you keep an amp to reasonable levels of gain and then boost it in some way. On that basis, I think you should go with the 800.

[GuitarIv]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll just hold on to my DSL and try to hunt down a proper 2203. If that works out I might as well put up some comparisons, so fingers crossed :)

Cheers!

[Dave Sloven]

Did you mod the loop in the DSL?

[GuitarIv]

Hey Dave, no modifications done on it so far. It's still the way it was when I got it used last year. I didn't even re-bias it for that matter (although it has external bias pots) or change tubes.

I recently played another DSL at a rehearsal space a couple of friends and myself rented for a day. I didn't stray away from the green channel and finally had the chance to crank that mofo to 10 on the Master Volume (for 5 minutes, the volume was unbearable, even with the whole band wearing earplugs we where shouting at each other).

I'm sure the DSL they had there was biased differently or had a different set of tubes, apart from the Marshall cab there that was equipped with the G12T-75s instead of the G12-65s I have in mine I used all the same equipment and noticed I had more gain and fizziness going on. Pretty sure the different speakers and the volume made a difference, you really have to crank that Marshall to get the best out of it.

For that matter I'm sure I could fine tune mine to get it where I want it to be, but next paycheck is being used to repair my ENGL Savage 60, and a used 2203 isn't that cheap either for that matter. So only time will tell when I had the chance to invest some cash. Right now I try to focus more on practice and getting a band started with the dudes I mentioned earlier haha