BKP equivalent to Texas Hot?

[brianhenson]

Looking at a set of replacement pickups for my Squier CV 60s Strat. I'm a fan of That Pedal Show and really like Mick's strat tone and he uses Texas Hots. I might just get those, but wanted to see what Bare Knuckle offered.

I've listened to the clean and blues clips of several sets. I like having just a little bit more treble than I normally want so I can dial back a bit with the tone knob and then roll it in when I need it. What I DON'T want is harsh "spiky" treble. Because of this I'm really liking the Mother's Milk. Lots of sweet treble. The 63 patent pending are closer to what I'd want as my all the time tone but I don't know if I'd miss that extra treble.

Also, since I like the Texas Hots I listened to the Irish Tour and Slow Hand. Their clean tones seem a little less interesting but they get nice gain tones.

But, sound clips on the internet only tell you so much. What have your experiences been?

[AndyR]

I have Irish Tours, Apaches, and Sultans. I'm tempted by Mother's Milks for the same reasons as you - more sweet top end that I can dial back and add as necessary. They all do it to some extent, but I find myself thinking "I should have gone for MMs" sometimes.

Out of the three sets I have (and they've all been around the same strats to see how they compare), the Apaches are closest to doing what you describe. They also have this low-mids punch (in comparison to the ITs upper-mid bite), I do find the Apaches the nicest for clean tones... So, yeah, I agree: the ITs are less interesting in comparison on cleans. They're not bad, just less "interesting" clean than the Apaches (and I suspect the MMs). I get the same on humbuckers - I love Mules, Riff Raffs, and Stormy Mondays, but one of them out-strips the others by far for "interesting cleans" (Stormies).

I think your judgement is probably right - the 63s I'm guessing are a bit like ITs, and I do miss some top end clarity with ITs. The MMs is what I think you probably want, but I would suggest checking out Apaches if you haven't already - they surprised the hell out of me when I finally bought them. I was expecting "Hank Marvin" and not much else... I was so wrong, they have a sweet top end, and this lower mid growl. They just work on/at everything I chuck at them. From everything I've read, though, the Mother's Milks have the most top-end clarity,

Btw - I don't think you want Sultans, they're lovely, but they're smooth and polite sounding. (Btw, I find Apaches do the best Mark Knopfler impersonations for me)

Oh - you may already know this, anyway - but whatever set you go for, I'd suggest avoiding RWRP on the middle pickup - you seem to lose a bit of that precious top-end clarity.

[fdesalvo]

I've used the 63's, MM's, Apaches, and currently have the Texas Hots in my guitar.  Of all the BKs listed, the 63s were just knockout toneful to my ear, but I'm really enjoying these Texas hots just as much.   I've been on a BK bender for about 5 years now and was surprised to find joy in these domestics. 

I find them similar to the 63s in some respects, but different in that the 63s come across a bit more "unaged"; the Texas Hots have a slightly softer and rounder attack - sssslightly.  I also think you should consider the 59s.  If you are caught in a Mexican standoff between the specs of these two BKs, you might find the 59s to be ideal if you are after less body and more top end than the 63s offer. 

Finally, the Texas Hots come across as very low output compared to the 63s.   I would assume their BK output contemporaries might be the Sultans!  If you are trying to balance volume with a humbucker at the bridge, then this may be a consideration.  As it turns out, the Abraxas is the perfect partner to the Texas Hots and produces a very sweet split sound in the #2 position.

Edit:
Though it flies in the face of the general consensus here, I personally found the MMs to have less of an organic depth than the others I owned.  There was a very uncompressed hardness to the attack under the pick that I couldn't get along with.  Through my gear, the tone was more contemporary in the sense of tone (vs output) versus the others.  It very much reminded me of idealized modern Strat pickups and now that I type this, perhaps they were too perfect/clinical for my liking.  I hesitate to use the word sterile, because they were leagues better than Fender USAs stock pickups, IMHO.

[brianhenson]

I've used the 63's, MM's, Apaches, and currently have the Texas Hots in my guitar.  Of all the BKs listed, the 63s were just knockout toneful to my ear, but I'm really enjoying these Texas hots just as much.   I've been on a BK bender for about 5 years now and was surprised to find joy in these domestics. 

I find them similar to the 63s in some respects, but different in that the 63s come across a bit more "unaged"; the Texas Hots have a slightly softer and rounder attack - sssslightly.  I also think you should consider the 59s.  If you are caught in a Mexican standoff between the specs of these two BKs, you might find the 59s to be ideal if you are after less body and more top end than the 63s offer. 

Finally, the Texas Hots come across as very low output compared to the 63s.   I would assume their BK output contemporaries might be the Sultans!  If you are trying to balance volume with a humbucker at the bridge, then this may be a consideration.  As it turns out, the Abraxas is the perfect partner to the Texas Hots and produces a very sweet split sound in the #2 position.

Edit:
Though it flies in the face of the general consensus here, I personally found the MMs to have less of an organic depth than the others I owned.  There was a very uncompressed hardness to the attack under the pick that I couldn't get along with.  Through my gear, the tone was more contemporary in the sense of tone (vs output) versus the others.  It very much reminded me of idealized modern Strat pickups and now that I type this, perhaps they were too perfect/clinical for my liking.  I hesitate to use the word sterile, because they were leagues better than Fender USAs stock pickups, IMHO.

That surprises me a bit about the Texas Hots being lower output than the 63s. I figured the Texas Hots would qualify as "Vintage Hot".

No humbucker in the bridge, I'm looking for a matched set.

I think the MM's could be too much of a good thing. The recordings sound nice but that could be a bit much going through my rig. Hard to tell based on a recording.

It looks like I'm probably looking at the Apache, 59 and Sultans then. Keep in mind the goal is to be in the ball park of Mick's tone, whatever else I say. There's plenty of treble and body in his sound.

[fdesalvo]

Yep. One company's vintage hot may be hotter than the next.  This is just my experience, so keep that in mind.  I didn't touch on the Apaches, which might be too round for your taste. Just keep in mind that no two guitars sound alike, so your mileage may vary. I think your safest bet is the 59 or 63 set if you are going to go all BK and want a vintage edge.  Rich, organic, and amazing feel.  Prob wouldn't be curious about the other once u installed one.

Edit: Just saw your modification.

I'm very familiar with his sound - I learned about the Texas Hots from That Pedal Show as a matter of fact and gave them a whirl as a result.  You will find the Apaches too round for what you are describing - and perhaps the Sultans, too polite, but there's a shadow of a doubt on that; it remains speculative on my part, having no direct experience with them (Lindy Fralin's Vintage Hot set comes to mind as a direct comparison I've owned, but those were so anemic I ripped them right out).  I maintain that the 59s are your safest bet, but the Sultans may do it, albeit lacking the midrange cut you seem to be after. 

[brianhenson]

Coming back to this, has anyone considered doing a 59 in the neck and 63s in the middle and bridge?

A lot of Strats I've played have too much bass in the neck PU and not enough in the bridge.

I'm also definitely thinking of doing a base plate on the bridge PU.

Thoughts?

[Telerocker]

Baseplate on the bridge for some extra oomph is a good idea. The Irish Tour comes closest to the Texas Hots. I have IT's and I don't find them too bright, but that depens of course on the guitar too. The Slowhands are quite middy and rounded, a bit like there is some P90 vibe going on. The topend of the 59 SB will be brighter than an IT. I also have Mother's Milk in a strat and these are not far away from the Pat Pend-series.

[fdesalvo]

Update-

I have a guitar with the SD Antiquity Texas Hot set in them and another with Dimarzio Areas/VV.  Let me tell you from my personal experience the Texas hots are extremely weak compared to the BK 63s, Apaches, Mother's Milks, and VV/Areas. They are very round and soft and it takes a lot of drive to get them cooking.  The Areas in my strat  (54 pro neck, 67 middle) are the most amazing strat pickups I've ever owned or heard and they are dead quiet.  They do Mayer/Vaughn and beyond with no perceptible weaknesses. 

The lesson I've learned is that I don't like extremely low output pickups. The Texas Hots are on par with Frailin Vintage Hots and they just didn't do it for me.  The difference when swithing from my Dimarzio loaded guitar to the one loaded with the SDs is vast.  They are so weak that I find they lack dynamics, sparkle, and guts.  The Dimarzios in my guitar are certainly hotter than the Texas hots, but they are loaded with chime, dynamics, sparkle and chewy goodness - all without that overwound midrange grit.  Based upon what I heard from Mick's tone, this is what I was expecting to get, but despite my amp and pedalboard platform, they couldn't deliver what I wanted.  These Dimarzios have ended my search for the quintessential strat tone (as I hear it).  They also play very nice with the BK Abraxas and other medium range buckers.  No loss of quack or juicy sparkle on the notch positions, either.

A word on Mick's tone -
The TX Hot pickups will NOT get you there alone - especialy if you have a Fender-type amp with a ton of headroom in the input stage.  You will need a TS type of drive along with a compressor - bare minimum. Otherwise, when you hit the OD, you will hear your clean signal behind the pick attack; there will be no chewy squish.  The compressor will also keep the annoying treble peaks down and your cleans will take on a chewier edge. 

I rebuilt one of my amps that I designed with a higher headroom input stage because it couldn't deliver on the classic Fender OD tones I was hearing in my mind.  I added a transparent master volume, lowered the input stage's headroom a bit, and also lowered the plate voltage across the amp and found the tone that's been in my mind since I was a kid. It nails the full range of SRV's pallete and goes beyond. Even with this amazing amp, the Duncans have an exceedingly hard time playing nice under the fingers and nailing the classic tones.  They need a lot of push from the amp and pedalboard to resemble what Mick's getting on his Super and Marshall inspired clones. 

The Duncans do have a wonderful clean tone and sweetness about them, but they don't do anything better than the Dmarzios in my other guitar.  If I were looking for strat pickups and had a raging boner that could only be quenched by BK, then I'd go with the 63 set and call it a day.  I rocked those suckers in many of my guitars and they did an amazing job in 75% of them.  That speaks volumes.

This is my personal experience.  Your mileage may vary.

[brianhenson]

Update-

I have a guitar with the SD Antiquity Texas Hot set in them and another with Dimarzio Areas/VV.  Let me tell you from my personal experience the Texas hots are extremely weak compared to the BK 63s, Apaches, Mother's Milks, and VV/Areas. They are very round and soft and it takes a lot of drive to get them cooking.  The Areas in my strat  (54 pro neck, 67 middle) are the most amazing strat pickups I've ever owned or heard and they are dead quiet.  They do Mayer/Vaughn and beyond with no perceptible weaknesses. 

The lesson I've learned is that I don't like extremely low output pickups. The Texas Hots are on par with Frailin Vintage Hots and they just didn't do it for me.  The difference when swithing from my Dimarzio loaded guitar to the one loaded with the SDs is vast.  They are so weak that I find they lack dynamics, sparkle, and guts.  The Dimarzios in my guitar are certainly hotter than the Texas hots, but they are loaded with chime, dynamics, sparkle and chewy goodness - all without that overwound midrange grit.  Based upon what I heard from Mick's tone, this is what I was expecting to get, but despite my amp and pedalboard platform, they couldn't deliver what I wanted.  These Dimarzios have ended my search for the quintessential strat tone (as I hear it).  They also play very nice with the BK Abraxas and other medium range buckers.  No loss of quack or juicy sparkle on the notch positions, either.

A word on Mick's tone -
The TX Hot pickups will NOT get you there alone - especialy if you have a Fender-type amp with a ton of headroom in the input stage.  You will need a TS type of drive along with a compressor - bare minimum. Otherwise, when you hit the OD, you will hear your clean signal behind the pick attack; there will be no chewy squish.  The compressor will also keep the annoying treble peaks down and your cleans will take on a chewier edge. 

I rebuilt one of my amps that I designed with a higher headroom input stage because it couldn't deliver on the classic Fender OD tones I was hearing in my mind.  I added a transparent master volume, lowered the input stage's headroom a bit, and also lowered the plate voltage across the amp and found the tone that's been in my mind since I was a kid. It nails the full range of SRV's pallete and goes beyond. Even with this amazing amp, the Duncans have an exceedingly hard time playing nice under the fingers and nailing the classic tones.  They need a lot of push from the amp and pedalboard to resemble what Mick's getting on his Super and Marshall inspired clones. 

The Duncans do have a wonderful clean tone and sweetness about them, but they don't do anything better than the Dmarzios in my other guitar.  If I were looking for strat pickups and had a raging boner that could only be quenched by BK, then I'd go with the 63 set and call it a day.  I rocked those suckers in many of my guitars and they did an amazing job in 75% of them.  That speaks volumes.

This is my personal experience.  Your mileage may vary.

I've watched a lot of that pedal show, so I've heard a lot of different tones from his strat, some with and some without any TS or comp on. But those tones are particularly good, for sure.

In a PM conversation I had with him he said if he had to do it over again he'd go with BKP, so I figured I'd look at it, but I'm not really sold to any particular brand. Honestly, the stock pickups in my Squier CV Strat don't really sound half bad.

Unfortunately I can't just grab a stack of pickups to try in the same guitar and same amp, I have to rely on youtube, sound clips, product descriptions and user reviews.

I site Mick as an example of a Strat tone I really like because I've heard him play through lots of different amps and pedals and consistently sound good.

[fdesalvo]

Update-

I have a guitar with the SD Antiquity Texas Hot set in them and another with Dimarzio Areas/VV.  Let me tell you from my personal experience the Texas hots are extremely weak compared to the BK 63s, Apaches, Mother's Milks, and VV/Areas. They are very round and soft and it takes a lot of drive to get them cooking.  The Areas in my strat  (54 pro neck, 67 middle) are the most amazing strat pickups I've ever owned or heard and they are dead quiet.  They do Mayer/Vaughn and beyond with no perceptible weaknesses. 

The lesson I've learned is that I don't like extremely low output pickups. The Texas Hots are on par with Frailin Vintage Hots and they just didn't do it for me.  The difference when swithing from my Dimarzio loaded guitar to the one loaded with the SDs is vast.  They are so weak that I find they lack dynamics, sparkle, and guts.  The Dimarzios in my guitar are certainly hotter than the Texas hots, but they are loaded with chime, dynamics, sparkle and chewy goodness - all without that overwound midrange grit.  Based upon what I heard from Mick's tone, this is what I was expecting to get, but despite my amp and pedalboard platform, they couldn't deliver what I wanted.  These Dimarzios have ended my search for the quintessential strat tone (as I hear it).  They also play very nice with the BK Abraxas and other medium range buckers.  No loss of quack or juicy sparkle on the notch positions, either.

A word on Mick's tone -
The TX Hot pickups will NOT get you there alone - especialy if you have a Fender-type amp with a ton of headroom in the input stage.  You will need a TS type of drive along with a compressor - bare minimum. Otherwise, when you hit the OD, you will hear your clean signal behind the pick attack; there will be no chewy squish.  The compressor will also keep the annoying treble peaks down and your cleans will take on a chewier edge. 

I rebuilt one of my amps that I designed with a higher headroom input stage because it couldn't deliver on the classic Fender OD tones I was hearing in my mind.  I added a transparent master volume, lowered the input stage's headroom a bit, and also lowered the plate voltage across the amp and found the tone that's been in my mind since I was a kid. It nails the full range of SRV's pallete and goes beyond. Even with this amazing amp, the Duncans have an exceedingly hard time playing nice under the fingers and nailing the classic tones.  They need a lot of push from the amp and pedalboard to resemble what Mick's getting on his Super and Marshall inspired clones. 

The Duncans do have a wonderful clean tone and sweetness about them, but they don't do anything better than the Dmarzios in my other guitar.  If I were looking for strat pickups and had a raging boner that could only be quenched by BK, then I'd go with the 63 set and call it a day.  I rocked those suckers in many of my guitars and they did an amazing job in 75% of them.  That speaks volumes.

This is my personal experience.  Your mileage may vary.

I've watched a lot of that pedal show, so I've heard a lot of different tones from his strat, some with and some without any TS or comp on. But those tones are particularly good, for sure.

In a PM conversation I had with him he said if he had to do it over again he'd go with BKP, so I figured I'd look at it, but I'm not really sold to any particular brand. Honestly, the stock pickups in my Squier CV Strat don't really sound half bad.

Unfortunately I can't just grab a stack of pickups to try in the same guitar and same amp, I have to rely on youtube, sound clips, product descriptions and user reviews.

I site Mick as an example of a Strat tone I really like because I've heard him play through lots of different amps and pedals and consistently sound good.

He's a tone monster for certain. He's got great touch and feel, as well. Some of my fav tones of his are when he's playing through ODS type amps.