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Author Topic: Mule Bridge and Stormy Monday Neck in my SG Standard '61? Or something else?  (Read 4801 times)

Daddy D-Rock

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Hey all,

Currently looking to swap the pickups in my SG Standard '61.

Currently in the guitar are Burstbucker 61's.
Output measures at 7.7k.
Main reason I'm changing them is that they're unpotted and squeal like crazy, which isn't gonna work for me.

The Neck pickup is honestly just kind of muddy, and I find myself not really liking it (I've already lowered it).
The Bridge pickup actually sounds great, with a a lot of bite and string separation --
But the Bridge pickup is kinda lacking in the lows, low-mids.
Could use something with a bit more balls there (something a bit more Les-Paul-ish, in the low-end to fill things out)

I've grown to really favor the low-output of these pickups, as I think it offers a lot of clarity and punch when playing with high-gain.
My extensive reading and research has led me to the:

 - Stormy Monday Neck
 - The Mule Bridge

I like that they're about the same output levels of the current pickups --
I'm looking to maintain that with whatever I choose. Nothing too hot.

I know a lot of people recommend the Mule, Riff Raff combo in an SG,
but I worry the Mule will be too bassy in the Neck and the Riff Raff will be too bright in the Bridge.
A suspect the SM/Mule combo might yield more balanced results.

I play with a good amount of gain on the Bridge (high overdrive, Big Muff -- Grunge, Emo, Coheed, Alice in Chains tones, etc.),
But like full (not muddy), sparkly cleans on the neck -- with some PAF warmth (think James Iha clean Smashing Pumpkins tones).

Any thoughts, advice?


Thanks!

timmy_pix

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Hello again!

I doubt the Riff Raff would be too bright for you unless your guitar is pretty thin or doesn't have much natural low end. It's bright but not piercing or thin by itself. That said, the Mule bridge is more balanced overall, so will feel slightly fuller. The real difference is how they feel - the Riff Raff is crisp and bitey, whereas the Mule is "crunchier", if that makes sense? A softer attack, but in a very nice way.

Alternative thought - get the best of both, plus a bit more, particularly as it's something you'll be using for high gain: consider the Black Dog. It's fuller than the Riff Raff, with thicker mids and more low-end body, has the high-end smoothness of the Mule, so won't be too bright, but is still PAF-level output so it's not too hot at all. Yes it's a higher DC, but it's also thinner wire; it really isn't that different to the 61s in terms of output. It is slightly more modern feeling in the mids, which means it takes to gain *really* well, but also retains a lot of PAF character on lower gain - it's a real best of both worlds.

As for the neck, the Stormy will do what you want, for sure, but I think the Mule will do it better, especially if you do look into the Black Dog. The Mule neck isn't dark or bassy at all - it's full, creamy, but has more controlled bass than the Stormy neck, and fuller mids. They're both warm, but the Stormy neck is slightly scooped and has a sweeter high end; the Mule is more open while also being fuller. The Mule and Black Dog have very similar top end smoothness, so they'd pair well.

So I think you'd absolutely be happy with a SM/Mule combo, compared to the 61s, no doubt about it. But from what you're describing, I'd bet that the Mule/Black Dog would make you even happier. The only thing that might caution me on that is if your SG is very middy naturally, in which case I'd be tempted to go full Mule set. My SG is certainly nothing but mid-range! But if it's brighter rather than middy or bassy, then carry on as above.
BKPs owned:
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Emeralds, 10ths, Mothers Milks, Nantucket, Black Dogs, Holydivers, A-bombs, Warpigs, Sinners, Cold Sweats

Daddy D-Rock

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Thank you for the super thorough reply!

I greatly appreciate all the insight.

I wouldn’t call my SG particularly bright — but yes, it’s very mid-heavy.
I love this on the bridge pickup. If it didn’t squeal so much, I’d likely leave that pickup alone.
I’ve since read someone comparing the Burstbucker ‘61 with the Riff Raff, and they stated the Riff Raff is very similar to that pickup, but more open and less compressed with better note clarity.
I’ve kinda decided to stop chasing more low-end for this guitar — I’ll let an SG be an SG and I’ll look to a Les Paul if I want more low-end, low mids.

With that said, I really don’t like the neck pickup on the SG. It just sounds muddy and flappy no matter what I do. It’s not a great sound, although the middle position sounds pretty good.

I read of someone else sticking a Alnico IV Stormy Monday in a VOS SG and being extremely happy with it. So at the moment, I’m kinda debating between the AIV Stormy Monday and a Mule.

Guess I have some options to consider

timmy_pix

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Okay, our SGs sound very similar as I'm having the exact same problem with neck pickups in mine! No matter what goes in, it's like it's damping the frequencies around pick attack so everything sounds a bit lifeless and muffled, even pickups that sound fine in other guitars.

Mine came with the Gibson T-types, and I like the bridge but the neck was a dark, muffled mess. I tried a T-top pickup from another winder in the neck and it was infinitely clearer, but again, no articulation. I've currently got an early set of Riff Raffs with A2 mags and it's better in the neck, but the pickups are all midrange and the guitar is all midrange, and it's a bit much. I've got an A5 Riff Raff bridge but no neck to pair with it.

The best luck I've had in the neck so far is an Old Guard. That had great articulation and clarity, but didn't really match with the voice of the T-type bridge so I took it out. For now I'm trying a couple of non-BKPs, but if an A5 Riff Raff neck pops up I'm curious to see how that will be.

If nothing sorts it, this SG's going on the chopping block!
BKPs owned:
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Emeralds, 10ths, Mothers Milks, Nantucket, Black Dogs, Holydivers, A-bombs, Warpigs, Sinners, Cold Sweats

Daddy D-Rock

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The AIV Stormy Monday is supposed to have tighter lows and more “bite”.

The scooped Mids would probably counteract the muddiness and excess Mids of the neck position.
I’m giving this one a shot. I know the Mule is also a popular choice for SG’s.

I’d be curious to how those two would compare on the neck position

ericsabbath

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the riff raff is a lot more balanced than people think
it was literally inspired by SG sound and pickup specs and also works equally well in les pauls, strats and PRS in my experience
I'll favour alnico 5 over other alnico types for almost anything from mid-70's on


mules also sound great in SGs, though
less spanky and more juicy, but I stand for more spank
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

timmy_pix

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I'll do a full write-up in a separate post, but I've put the A5 Riff Raff in the bridge and swapped the mag on my A2 Riff Raff to a short A5 (ie, stock Riff Raff) and bam, complete transformation.

The A2 Riff Raff was too congested in the mid-range on an already mid-heavy guitar, but swapping to A5 has basically completed the guitar. @Daddy D-Rock I'm 100% confident the Riff Raffs are what you're looking for.

The Riff Raff bridge has bite in all the right places, brightness without harshness. The low-mids aren't prominent, but there's enough to have a really nice growl with gain. The bass is deep but it's more weight than actual bass, if that makes sense. The neck is the same - really articulate (a blessing after struggling to find a neck pickup that works in this SG), clear, bright but full-bodied.

The thing I wasn't expecting with the Riff Raffs is that they really remind me of a P90 - there's snap, bite and brightness, but also a real depth and weight to the bass end. So my SG now does the classic rock SG thing in spades, and the Riff Raff voice is just right for higher gain, too - clear but aggressive.

The brightness-but-depth aspect reminds me of the Emeralds, as well, but where the Emeralds are hotter, richer and more even, the Riff Raff is lighter, snappier and more aggressive. I've completely fallen for them and they've taken this SG from being on the chopping block to being an absolute delight.

BKPs owned:
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Emeralds, 10ths, Mothers Milks, Nantucket, Black Dogs, Holydivers, A-bombs, Warpigs, Sinners, Cold Sweats

Daddy D-Rock

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I think you might have sold me on a full Riff Raff set — Bridge and Neck

For the Neck PU, I was also considering the Stormy Monday and the Mule