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Author Topic: valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy  (Read 6732 times)

Petre

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« on: May 14, 2006, 08:39:40 PM »
Ok well, as many of you know im having major amp decision problems. i was pretty chuffed with how my 15 watt marshall SS held up against full blown drums yesterday.. but allas its now getting desperate for a bigger amp. not only am i playing in far more band situations, but my amp is starting to pack in  :(  .

Ok so, Valve amps are cool and all. BUT expensive...
SS amps dont have the same tastiness.. but they are alot cheaper.

Im tempted by both.

ENGL thunder sounds really like what i need, but does the 50 watt combo have a speaker out?
Plus for about the same price i can get some sort of cheapish half-stack. Laney do a half-stack for like £450 but not sure im that keen on the series/model.

Now, are SS half stacks in the slightest able to tackle bedroom volumes? i understand there wont be the same problems as a valve amp, as they sound better louder etc.

Another option is skipping straight to some sort of valve stack, but then u need hotplates and cr@p and i dont have the money .. or the ability to spend nearly what it would cost for my dream guitar on an amp instead.

Last option is an SS combo  :roll:.. just to tide me over until i can get something more?

Damn i hate decisions :evil:

Any ideas on what to do? I like heavy metal and get a nice sound out of my SS as it is with my uber metal. i can probably go up to around £500 for something new, but either way ill prob get an amp second hand for alot cheaper as time is a growing problem right now! (i even have a death metal band on standby because my amp cant cut it!)

Cheers for any input
Petre

sambo

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2006, 08:47:08 PM »
Modeller with Atomic Amp....

with my POD XT Live... im miffed as to why people hate modelling so much... ok so its not EXACTLY the same as the real thing... but it sounds DAMN good... i love it... and with an atomic amp (which are designed specifically for modellers) then you'll get some added warmth and power (the Atomics are valve you see) that will retain all the sound from the modeller....

AND... then like you say if you want other stuff (like a death metal band) it can do that easy...

just a suggestion- seems to fit: fairly cheap, good-for-gigging setup, quite versatile...

badgermark

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2006, 09:00:04 PM »
I have a Peavey bandit 112, 80W pure SS. It's good, loud, but on lower volumes it's very usesable at home.

It's good.
Mississippi Queens, Holydiver.

sambo

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2006, 09:03:08 PM »
hmmm yeah i would say SS is also a good route.... they sound great at low volumes... and im presuming good ones will sound good at higher volumes too....i just have no time or care for my laney lc30.... despite everyone telling me i should love it... i just dont...

Petre

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2006, 09:12:39 PM »
Yea, maybe SS really is the way to go.. at least for now while im 17 and have a budget prob  :? . I heard the LC15 was not all that good from Davey.. is the Lc30 a jump up in quality? Coz ive seen alot on ebay for around 200 which is nicely into my price range which is good. But i assumed it would just be a louder version of a poor amp lol. Plus lots on ebay isnt always a good thing. they get sold for a reason  :roll:.

The POD+atomic idea is pretty cool too. bit out of my price range and i think it looks a little ugly (yea i know, i can be a woman about these things too) but might work out nicely. Plenty of variety and such.

Alternatively theres the Line6 spider II half stack or laney MXD stack.. both land in around £400 so they are still open options.

sambo

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2006, 09:20:46 PM »
Quote from: Petre
Yea, maybe SS really is the way to go.. at least for now while im 17 and have a budget prob  :? . I heard the LC15 was not all that good from Davey.. is the Lc30 a jump up in quality? Coz ive seen alot on ebay for around 200 which is nicely into my price range which is good. But i assumed it would just be a louder version of a poor amp lol. Plus lots on ebay isnt always a good thing. they get sold for a reason  :roll:.

The POD+atomic idea is pretty cool too. bit out of my price range and i think it looks a little ugly (yea i know, i can be a woman about these things too) but might work out nicely. Plenty of variety and such.

Alternatively theres the Line6 spider II half stack or laney MXD stack.. both land in around £400 so they are still open options.


yer the spiders might be something to look into.... dunno... avent tried emmm.....

nor have i tried the LC15... thing with the LC30 is... its good for classic rock, at LOUD volumes.... and thats it... it literally... will do NOTHING else basically... and at low volumes its just so unsatisfying.... so in comes the need for a hotplate there....

personally i think the POD looks awesome lol (this is the 'live' version not the little red bean Pods) but personal preference i guess...

its ok for me cause my band has landed ourselves a free PA system which im gonna go direct from the POD too  :D  but for you, without an Atomic it could be difficult as they dont go too well with amps (modellers that is)... but still something to look into...

i like SS to be honest... i really like my crate... but then again... i havent tried any really good valve amps... but my little £170 SS crate outstrips my LC30 and in my opinion my mates AVT50 completely........

willo

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2006, 09:30:48 PM »
I had a Spider 2x12 combo - what do you want to know about it?
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Petre

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2006, 10:16:34 PM »
@ sambo   i meant the atomic amp. looks a bit weird. and yes, yes, yes im a poser and a half. I love my gear to look sexy. hence why i got a jackson RR3 when i had an ESP-LTD M-100FM which was perfectly fulfilling its duty  :roll: . .. and why i also spent the extra £80 on a red swirly finish as opposed to black.

Im more leaning to an SS half-stack now, but just worried im never gonna be able to crank it or never use it outside my bedroom.

willo, how is the spider II for chunky low end crunching ? and are the built-in effects any good?
cheers
Petre

willo

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2006, 10:38:36 PM »
hey,

well, the Spider did have all kinds of tones available, that's one of the big advantages - you could go from sparkling clean to full on gain at the press of the (included) footswitch.

I remember the cleans being very clean and really nice to play on. I quite liked the superheated Plexi sound on it too, particularly if you run a boost into it, it was quite nice. However, without the boost I found the higher-gain settings sounded a bit fuzzy and not brilliant. However, two things to remember:

1) it's a cheap amp, with lots of versatility - its never going to be perfect, and
2) I'm not a metal player and never owned a high gain amp, so I don't know at all how it compares to that kind of sound, it's not a sound I use much.

As for the effects, no I didn't like them much at all. They were useful in a way, but the way they were implemented was kinda useless - it was one dial for all phase/chorus/flange fx, so the 1st 3rd of the dial was chorus (or something) and then beyond that point it became a phaser, and so on. It was a little bit too fiddley for me. Plus, on the included footswitch there is no way to turn the effect on or off unless it's saved to be automatically present within that particular preset. Although, I think they make more expansive footswitches that do have footswitches for the various effects, but you have to buy these seperately.

The best advice I can offer is to try one in person. I know that's a bit of a cop-out answer, and I apologise, but if you're looking for an opinion on what makes a good 'low end chugging' then I'm not really a man who would know! :)  I just remember liking the cleans, the versatility and the crunch setting was OK (although doesn't compare at all to the JCM800 crunch I bought after selling the Line 6). It is however, quite compact for 150W and pretty cheap. But as I say, try before you buy; it does so many things, some you may like and some you may not - if you try it, you'll be able to make sure that it does the things you want it to do, well!
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away...

badgermark

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2006, 10:53:53 PM »
The best amp I ever played through was a Roland Jazz Chorus. Man I almost stole it from the practice room. Was a big blighter though, but it sounded gooooo-ood...
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Searcher

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2006, 12:20:16 AM »
Quote from: Petre
how is the spider II for chunky low end crunching ?


I had one for a couple of years, too.  They're not bad for heavy stuff, for the price.  In fact, for the price they're pretty cool, but they're a classic example of the 'jack of all trades, master of none' saying.  Where they really fall down is in bluesy, slightly broken-up sounds.

I think the next model up is a fair leap in quality, too.  I haven't owned one, but a guy I jam with and hear play every other week has a Vetta II, so I know the sound.

I'd prolly go for a small valve amp and a modeller rather than a solid-state amp.  In fact, I've gone both routes several times and much prefer the modeller + decent amp to a half-decent solid state amp.

Oh, and nothing against (Badger)Mark, but I owned a Peavey Bandit and swore off Peaveys for life.
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dave_mc

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2006, 12:20:26 AM »
assuming the thunder is nearly as good as the screamer (i haven't tried the thunder), and you can get one for inside your budget, i'd take said thunder. But try it first.

My engl sounds awesome cranked. But it's so high gain that it also sounds (very slightly less) awesome at low volumes.

Of course, the thunder might not be so high gain. But you could get an OD pedal...

that's what I'd do anyway. problem with a SS halfstack is, a lot of the cash is going on pretty poor quality cabs etc.- if you must go SS, i'd just get a combo, to be honest, because you aren't wasting so much money on it...

Up to you obviously, and you know what you want more than I do... but just throwing my hat into the ring...

_tom_

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2006, 01:06:02 AM »
Quote from: dave_mc
assuming the thunder is nearly as good as the screamer (i haven't tried the thunder), and you can get one for inside your budget, i'd take said thunder. But try it first.

My engl sounds awesome cranked. But it's so high gain that it also sounds (very slightly less) awesome at low volumes.

Of course, the thunder might not be so high gain. But you could get an OD pedal...

that's what I'd do anyway. problem with a SS halfstack is, a lot of the cash is going on pretty poor quality cabs etc.- if you must go SS, i'd just get a combo, to be honest, because you aren't wasting so much money on it...

Up to you obviously, and you know what you want more than I do... but just throwing my hat into the ring...


Thing is its not just the gain that makes stuff sound good at low volume :( If the speaker isnt being pushed enough it still sounds a bit shite, at least in my experience

Petre

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valve vs SS .... wallet vs time ... practicality vs joy
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2006, 01:09:35 AM »
ok firstly guys, i can not really try out anything :S . In my town all the music shops just stock overly priced poor quality goods. Only place stocks good stuff is a shop my sister works in, but they only really stock peavey and marshall.. maybe laney but i cant be sure. even then they dont have many models in store.

im seriously tempted by this pod modelling idea. And yea maybe a stack really is total overkill. just thought of stack because further down the line i could just swap the SS head over for an engl head.

@ dave_mc    The engl isnt really in my price range unfortunately.. pretty much purely based on the extra costs for OD pedal + maybe a hotplate for bedroom levels.

@ willo   I like the idea of sparkling cleans etc. If i did get an SS combo it would probably be a fairly high-end one. Sounds like it could be a good stop-gap measure. The distortion on the amp isnt that much of a worry, as i have an uber metal i can land right infront of it if worst comes to the worst (made by the same ppl but probbaly some noticeable differences).

If i did go down the road of a POD with a decent amp, what ideas do you have for an amp other than atomic? also what differences are there between makes of the pod?

lifted

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How 'bout a Hybrid?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2006, 01:10:28 AM »
I have Three suggestions for Ya:     I own this Vox  thats called a valvreactor 30VR.  It has a 12 Ax7  in the poweramp, not the preamp section, which makes those 30 watts really loud tube watts.  One 10 inch speaker. it has three footswitchable channels:  Clean , Hard rock dirt, and  a Metalish one.  It has a master volume, so you can get good gain at bedroom vol.s but It really sings with master Volume @ 5 or more.  I got it for 150 u.s $  Has Reverb, but that's the weak link.
    2.  Vox has another one called the AD30VT  and AD50vt  which has the same type 12ax7 circuitry, but is a modeling amp.  I have always been able to get  a good sound for all styles out of this one.  the 30 watt(remember a loud 30)   goes for $239.
  3. THen there is this Peavey which is an SS tube modeler amp, which I played alot and has got about 6 american sounds on one side and six british ones on the other.  it comes 50 or 100 watt , 112  or 212 spkrs, and has an extensive, highly programable footswitch.  Great cleans and high gains as well.  The 50w  112 was going for about $500 last time I checked.  This one is actually my fave of the three, but I got the first one for Christmas from the wife, so............ more money for Bareknuckle pickups,,  right.  Good luck!
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