Author Topic: Playing outside the box... (Read 12099 times)

Muttley · « **on:** May 24, 2006, 01:46:47 PM »

I'm getting a little frustrated that I seem to keep falling back on the same old blues licks all the time, and seem tied to a couple of scale "box shapes".

I'm finding it very difficult to break this habit and wondered if anybody had some advice or tips (other than bashing my head against the wall every time I catch myself doing it)?

Cheers

Muttley

Twinfan · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2006, 01:51:30 PM »

Try adding extra notes into the scale box you're using. That can add a different feel. Also play the notes in different positions on the neck e.g. if you're playing E pentatonic on the 12th fret, try playing the same notes starting with the D on the 10th fret of the bass E working across the strings to the E on 12th fret of the top E.

Same notes, different position = different feel and phrasing.

Dakine · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2006, 02:14:53 PM »

IF, big word there, you are talking Pentatonic, try Aeolian (adding few notes, as said before). Really alters sound and direction that you can explore.
Also, maybe not your bag (and your question is a little vague) but adding palm muting and some pinch harmonics, hammer ons etc. Add much more variety to a worn routine/sound.

willo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2006, 02:23:16 PM »

What kind of music are you listening to, predominantly? I mostly associate chromatics with the more 'free'/avant-garde jazzers, when I listen to their stuff repeatedly it just seeps into you.

Muttley · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:26:08 PM »

Quote from: Dakine

IF, big word there, you are talking Pentatonic, try Aeolian (adding few notes, as said before). Really alters sound and direction that you can explore.

Yeah, it's mainly Blues Pentatonic licks that are so ingrained in my subconcious I keep repeating the damn things over and over again, which I think is holding back my playing a bit.

Quote from: Dakine

Also, maybe not your bag (and your question is a little vague) but adding palm muting and some pinch harmonics, hammer ons etc. Add much more variety to a worn routine/sound.

It probably is a bit vague. As to stuff like palm muting, pinch harmonics, hammer ons, wide vibrato, etc. I already do all that kind of stuff. It's mainly the note/lick selection I'm having trouble with.

Dakine · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:27:20 PM »

You and Zakk both then :)
Sorry, will think on it more bud :)

Muttley · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:30:06 PM »

Quote from: willo

What kind of music are you listening to, predominantly? I mostly associate chromatics with the more 'free'/avant-garde jazzers, when I listen to their stuff repeatedly it just seeps into you.

Well, my Top 10 artists according to last.fm are:

[list=1]

The Wildhearts
Overkill
Bad Religion
Enuff Z'Nuff
New Model Army
Joe Satriani
John Williams
Steve Vai
Mötley Crüe
Green Day[/list:o]

I've never really got on with the more modern jazz styles, although I like some of the older big band stuff.

_tom_ · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2006, 03:54:14 PM »

Quote from: Muttley

Yeah, it's mainly Blues Pentatonic licks that are so ingrained in my subconcious I keep repeating the damn things over and over again, which I think is holding back my playing a bit.

Thats exactly what I'm like, its cr@p and have been stuck like it for AGES.

Searcher · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2006, 04:14:34 PM »

Have you tried playing more along the strings, rather than up and down 'em? Like, say, sticking to the B string for a while in a solo and forcing yourself to not play any other strings. Do that every so often and eventually you'll be able to incorporate it in your solos all the time.

Learn modes! Get the sound of them in your head and it'll be natural for you to stick odd notes in your solos here and there.

sambo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2006, 04:17:51 PM »

+1 Mark... learn Modes mate... my teacher gave me them very early on in my learning... and even though i was extremely disinterested in learning scales or practicing at all at that point, it still engrained the Ionian in my head... i use that with the pentatonic all the time now as it is really easy to switch between the two and mix them... it expands your horizons A LOT...

Underground_Player · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2006, 05:13:21 PM »

Quote

Get the sound of them in your head and it'll be natural for you to stick odd notes in your solos here and there.

Great idea but that can take a bit of time!

If you can't be bothered with modes, which is a bad thing to say but is true in a lot of people's cases, try this kind of stuff:

1. Instead of switching on autopilot when it comes to noodling stuff, in your bedroom at least, sit back and tell yourself not to play those licks. Sing lines in your head that you would like to be able to play - simple blues stuff especially - then try and play them. If you find you forget them when it comes to playing them, sing them out loud first!

2. Whilst not on autopilot, if you run out of ideas in your head, try skipping strings in your familiar 'boxes', or even chucking in notes that you've never played before. This'll sound cr@p 9 times out of 10, but some of the best set (-ish) licks I've got have resulted from me making mistakes or delibrately going where I've never gone before.

3. When playing live, unless you're confident enough to play as Mark suggested ^, ignore all of the above and play on autopilot or you'll f@ck up!

Hope this helps.

Underground_Player · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2006, 05:38:48 PM »

BTW I listened to Cream's 'I'm so Glad' yesterday and realised that EC's solo, which is almost a minute long, is completely played on the G string. I really believe he limited himself to that so he didn't fall into his own boxes..... and it worked out really well!

Also, off topic, if anyone's a fan of that album, listen to the supposed silence on Spoonful at about 6.10, before Jack Bruce sings ''Everythin's a dyin' about it'' and you'll hear him sing that line very quietly just before he comes in properly. I'd guess that they recorded it basically live, and he came in with that line, but afterwards they thought he didn't leave a long enough gap so they rode the faders right down (but not quite down enough!) and he sung that bit again leaving a longer gap. There's obvious cut + pastes all over the album if you listen closely enough. Interesting, huh. 8)

Johnny Mac · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2006, 06:12:37 PM »

There in there for good and thats the thing. I was talking with a guy in my local guitar shop and he is stuck on sweeps ect and can't play blues based stuff.

Learning new shapes and modes is good and i do that but can't apply them too well and it just sounds like scales.

One of the other posters said about coming up with lines in your head, which is a great way of coming up with new stuff cos it's your head playing and not where your fingers fall. So that is really composing rather than impro' but it may help.

At the end of the day its fffing hard to break out of pentatonics but i still think they sound cool.

38thBeatle · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2006, 06:40:31 PM »

Muttley, I often fall back on blues licks so I know where you are coming from ( plus I was a bass player for years so akll theis lead guitar stuff is relatively new to me). You may or may not be into him but Robben Ford is a great player to listen to as he pushes boundries but still retains a sense of melody.

Searcher · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2006, 07:41:48 PM »

Quote from: Johnny Mac

Learning new shapes and modes is good and i do that but can't apply them too well and it just sounds like scales.

Ya gotta push past the it-sounds-like-scales barrier, Johnny. Put on a chord progression that just loops and loops. Pick the appropriate mode and go for it. After a while (maybe half an hour with the same four chords) you get to a point where you kinda think, "Now what the hell do I play?", because you've played everything that quickly comes to mind. That's when you start to really get into the interesting stuff. That's when the creative side kicks in.