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Author Topic: Cutting through with a mid-cut tone  (Read 3263 times)

OD-Black_Fire

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« on: July 27, 2006, 09:47:22 PM »
I have found the perfect tone with my amp, but it just so happens to have a pretty good mid-cut. I have not yet played with this amp in a band, so I have no idea how well it will cut through? Besides turning the volume up higher, what can be done to cut through the mix without really changing the EQ much live?

deg0ey

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2006, 10:08:11 PM »
Well the thing is that everyone should (in most cases) use a different EQ setting at gig volumes than at practise volumes. The reason is something known as the Fletcher-Munson effect. Basically, this effect describes the differing perception of sound at different volumes. At low volumes, notes of a low frequency must be played louder to be percieved at the same volume as notes of a higher frequency. Mids are percieved as being the loudest, with treble slightly quieter (but still louder than the low frequencies). As the volume increases, these differences become less pronounced with lows and trebles being percieved at a similar volume and mids only slightly louder.

It is this effect that is the reason for scooped mids sounding quite good in the bedroom, but relatively shitee when the amp gets turned up.

What you will find with your settings is that as you turn the volume up, it will start to sound different. The way to solve this is to turn your amp to gig/band practice volume beforehand and EQ it at high volume, as this will take into account the Fletcher Munson effect (and will likely sound horrible when you turn your amp down again) and will be the sound you want for your gigs

Sorry for the long post, and I probably made it more confusing than it needed to be - but if anyone's interested, ask for more detail or just google "Fletcher-Munson effect" :drink:

EDIT:

This is an "equal loudness curve". It shows how loud a note of each frequency has to be played to sound the same volume...As you can see, bass notes need to be louder to sound the same as notes in the mid frequency range
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TwilightOdyssey

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 04:13:20 AM »
We have an audiologist in the house. ;)

OD-Black_Fire

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 04:50:26 AM »
So basically, if I want the sound I hear at bedroom levels when blasting at a gig, I need to cut down on the treble, bass, and pull up the mids a bit?

Also, if I am set up with a PA system, i would keep my amp at "bedroom" settings and let the PA system change everything?

If I'm recording, I probably won't hear the change, its only when hearing things at high volumes right?

deg0ey

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 08:56:50 AM »
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
We have an audiologist in the house. ;)


Not really, We did sound in school, and I remembered it somehow...Thought it was about time I posted something useful :lol:

Quote from: OD-Black_Fire
So basically, if I want the sound I hear at bedroom levels when blasting at a gig, I need to cut down on the treble, bass, and pull up the mids a bit?

Also, if I am set up with a PA system, i would keep my amp at "bedroom" settings and let the PA system change everything?

If I'm recording, I probably won't hear the change, its only when hearing things at high volumes right?


Yup, at high volumes you'll need to boost the mids and cut the bass and treble to get the same sound you get at bedroom levels. I would think that the PA would help out, as long as it boosts the mids more than the bass and treble. In recording, it depends on the volume and mic positions as to if you'll hear the same tone or not - remember you need to take into account the position of your ears when listening to yourself play is not the same as where you'll position the mic if you are recording. And so, it won't sound the same, but that's not the same effect - you just have to EQ through your mic and whatever to sort that (although it probably won't make a huge difference).

The one thing I haven't done in all this is answer your original question: Will you cut in a band situation?

Well, cut is a very subjective thing...I think one reason people don't cut through is that they don't cut through as well as they should is that they don't take into account everything that I said above. If you have scooped mids and boosted bass and treble, and turn the volume up, then the mids will become even less pronounced and overcome by the bass frequencies. Problem with this being that the guitar is a mid heavy instrument, so the mids need to be heard. If you use your PA to account for this and EQ accordingly, then you might well be ok. The only way to know for sure is to try it out really :)
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PhilKing

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 12:35:31 PM »
The other thing to throw in the equation is bodies!  The more people are in a room, the more high mid and treble disappear!  Also, each place you play will have its own sound.  This is why you need a sound check if you can get it.  But generally you will need more treble and mid to cut though in a crowded room and it will sound too bright if you are listening to it in isolation.
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TwilightOdyssey

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 02:55:57 PM »
Quote from: PhilKing
The other thing to throw in the equation is bodies!  The more people are in a room, the more high mid and treble disappear!  

aka, comb filtering, which is nasty business, and another subject all together.

OD-Black_Fire

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 04:53:16 PM »
But by the time your volume hits 100db I don't think anyone gives a shite, :D lol.  Thanks for the help guys.

deg0ey

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Cutting through with a mid-cut tone
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 05:30:22 PM »
Quote from: OD-Black_Fire
But by the time your volume hits 100db I don't think anyone gives a shitee, :D lol.


I think I agree with that statement - as long as there's gain and power chords people don't care :P
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