Changing Crawlers to ? in Mahogany guitar - thoughts?

[Brian G]

Hi All;

I've been a BK user & fan for a couple of years, having put a calibrated set of Crawlers in this guitar, a US-made Carvin: all mahogany, no maple cap, ebony fretboard, double-cut, hardtail string-thru-body, RS Superkit for pots and tone cap:


I love this guitar - beautifully made and finished, incredilbe neck, and so on. When Tim and I discussed PUP's, I indicated that I only play at home (at relatively low volumes), was at that time using a Marshall AVT amp, and wanted to sound full tonally under these conditions. So Tim's recommendations at the time were with that in mind. Since then, the amp has changed to a Rivera Fandano 2-12 combo (EL34's; 2 channels), which is capable of beautiful Fender-style cleans and mid-gain "almost-Marshall" on the drive channel.

Probably due to the all-mahogany construction, this guitar sounds a bit too fat / closed down with the Crawlers, and I'm wondering about a change . . . The low strings seem very dominant, particularly the low E (I have the PUP's tilted slightly to favor the treble strings, and also have turned the low E screw in more so than the other screws. Otherwise, the height of the pickups seems pretty good.

The result I'd like from this guitar is more openness, ("air"" if such a thing is possible with this type of guitar), better balance between the low and high strings (my Strat and Axis SS P90's both have much better string-to-string balance). This is by way of making a good guitar better , I think.  Would also want to keep a creamy, saturated type of ability for lead type stuff, e.g. Gary Moore, Santana.  I don't want an extremely bright, edgy character in the highs.

There were some posts mentioning unpotted Stormy Mondays sounding fairly open, although I'm not clear how the tonal balance would be different from, say, Crawlers or Mules.

Ultimately I know I need to ask Tim (maybe he'll chime in?), ut wondered what you all might think.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance.

Brian



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[_tom_]

I heard that the Rebel Yells are quite bright, and Hunter's clips sound really good so I'd maybe go with those, then again its probably a completely differently constructed guitar so it may not sound similar at all :lol:

[sgmypod]

have swapped out my crawler bridge on my mahogany sg to a nailbomb is far brighter

[Ced777]

Abraxas? Emerald?  Rebell Yell?
Just some thought...

Do you want the same output than the Crawler?

[Fourth Feline]

Hi, hope this helps !

I have tried both Alnico II Stormy Mondays and Alnico IV Mules in a heavy mahogany Les Paul and I would say the Mules are defintely more emphatic in the mid frequencies, especially in such an already heavy  guitar.

The Stormy Mondays were not only very 'open' sounding, but the frequency responce was more equal across the neck.

What I would say about both the SMs and Mules, is that ( as they are the two lowest gain humbuckers in the range) - they both have a very sweet sounding high end. I read on the forum that pickups even slightly higher up the range such as Riff Raffs and Black Dogs sound more 'spiky' and aggressive in the treble.

I play through predominantly Fender or Fenderish sounding amps with 6L6 output tubes with the occasional use of a 15 watt Peavey with EL84's, but voiced with pre-amp valves and a speaker that make it sound like a 'mini Twin'. You really notice the character of the treble and overall response through such clean amps.

I did have to choose eventually betwen which pickups went into:
 1) The Les Paul
and
2) an S.G.

 - but still sound sweet when played loud and clean.

I asked Tim and was recomended to let the SMs 'breath' big time in the narrow mahogany S.G. and I happily found the Mules put some thick mid range emphasis back into my Les Paul without losing clarity. Thus each guitar retained it's intrinsic character but with the sweetest of highs and retained articulation.

I would therefore assume ( in your situation) that the Mules would sound too close to your existing Crawlers and fit instead the Stormy Mondays.

The only disclaimer/further point is that I also read around here that Alnico II magnet pickups can get a bit 'loose' in the bass at high gain -
( not a problem for me as I rarely go high gain) so I would perhaps ask Tim about Stormy Mondays with an Alnico IV magnet for what I believe would be ideal for your requirements.

Regards,

Derek. :)

[turnip bag]

brian g , i had the same experience with  a crawler in   a mahogany guitar and swapped over for missisippi   queens  which sound really nice, i also think mules would work too , definately not as thick as crawlers , more airy .

[Brian G]

Thanks guys - great responses. To answer the output question,  I probably don't need high output. In fact, lower output just lets me open up the amp a bit more. Can always use a pedal for distortion.

If the SM's only start to get a little loose under very high gain, that's not a problem, as long as they sound balanced otherwise.

Derek, I had noticed your earlier posts re: using the SM's in the SG, which made me think the situation with the SG is maybe like mine with the Carvin (no maple cap).

I thought about the Missiissippi Queens, that's an option. I do already have the Asis SS with P-90's, though the MQ's in the Carvin might really rock.  I should also have mentioned that the guitar has a pull-switch on the tone control to split the coils; it makes a difference but doesn't sound like a real single coil, so I could happily live without it, or maybe change it to a tap (does the same pot work for this?).

Lastly, there's not much attention / comments given to the SM's on the forum - does that mean anything, or just that most people are looking for higher output pickups?

Brian

[Ced777]

MQ are really great pickups. Something like a Mule with just a tad more bite, and the attack of a single coil.
No muds, only great rock tone. And not big output: lots of airyness.

[Philly Q]

Lastly, there's not much attention / comments given to the SM's on the forum - does that mean anything, or just that most people are looking for higher output pickups?

Just the latter, that most people are looking for higher output pickups.  Even old codgers like me never really get over being teenage metalheads.  I know lower output pickups are supposed to give a purer, more articulate tone, but there's something about having all that effortless power at your fingertips...

Although I must admit I speak from a position of ignorance, not having actually tried the pickups, I'd say If you find your Crawler set a little too warm and fat then lower output must be the way to go.  Maybe a Riff Raff in the bridge for a little more grit, and the SM or MQ in the neck?

I could happily live without it, or maybe change it to a tap (does the same pot work for this?)

If the push-pull pot currently splits the 2 humbuckers, then you should be able to use the same pot to tap 2 Mississippi Queens, or split a HB and tap a MQ.

Nice looking guitar, by the way!

[Fourth Feline]

Hello again Brian,

A couple of points in reply to your latest questions:

If the integral switch built into you tone pot has 6 tags ( double pole/ double throw) - then you can do just about anything with it. I use one on my Les Paul to get 'Peter Green' type sounds. There is a website called somthing like "guitar wiring.com" but Tim can e:mail examples from it as he did for me.

I think the SM ( my favourite pickup) is not mentioned much on this forum, because not as many BKP Humbucker buyers are trying to sound like they jumped into a time machine back to 1962 ! Also we old fashioned guys ( and girls) tend not to have as much access/interest into recording hardware/software and rather apportion the cash elsewhere into the old technology. Thus perhaps less sound clips.  

I gather the Stormy Monday is built more like the 1961/1962 P.A.F  when the S.G. first came in and the Mule more like the late 1950's P.A.F.

The startling revelation that Tim now winds a 'Peter Green' type pickup upon request makes me wish I had yet another Les Paul ! When I asked Tim which pickup the Peter Green (ish) pickup was closest to in impedance/winding/ magnet, he said (as a generlisation) - the Stormy Monday, albeit with a deliberate wiring 'defect' in one pickup.

I would also concur  that this forum has more metal/rock orientated customers than retro heads like me.  For example a mahogany upcapped guitar like the S.G. ( and probably your own guitar ) equiped with SMs sounds very much like B.B.King's guitar 'Lucielle' in the middle toggle position. I can also get authentic Sixties Soul sounds out of it and very clear and articulate fingerpicking with the SMs. This I could not get from the stock Gibson pickups.

I conclude that the Stormy Mondays are a national treasure, but ironically this is not the biggest marketplace for them as not every one wants to sound that 'naked'.

A friend of mine tried the SM's whilst they were still in the Les Paul and remarked that he loved the sound, but they were so clear that he could hear all his mistakes ( previously covered by high gain voicing).

Hope that is " Grist to the mill ".

Regards,

Derek.

[PhilKing]

Hi Brian,  I have the umpotted SM's in my 335 and a Riff-Raff/SM combination in my LP.  I wanted the Peter Green sound for the LP, and Tim suggested the the Alnco V/IV combo can do this.  I like the combination because the Riff Raff really  can drive the amp it you want, but sounds great clean.  The SM's are a really nice old style blues/rock tone, but don't think that they can't do distortion!  With my mini-Mat boost or with a pedal in front of the amp, you can get lots of the old classic rock sounds.

[Brian G]

Thanks again to all - I'm overwhelmed by the number and quality of your responses.

PhilKing - I was just about to post again to ask if choosing the SM's would mean sacrificing good higher gain sounds, and you chimed in on that.

This would be my only humbucker guitar (for now, at least), and I have the Strat and P-90 guitars, so as appealing as the MQ's sound, it's probably not the right choice at the moment.

The comment about "sounding naked" -- hoo boy, just what I need   -- will  be taking lessons forever (LOL)

So, if it's to be SM's - which magnets, AII or AIV? Differences in sound, output, tonal balance, drive, or "air"??

Anybody need a set of Crawlers in gold?

Brian

[Philly Q]

Anybody need a set of Crawlers in gold?

If I still had my Smartwood Les Paul I'd have been in like a shot, but all my current guitars have chrome or nickel hardware.  

I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding someone who wants them!

[Fourth Feline]

Hi Brian,

I think this is the time to send a PM to Tim to clarify final choices, but my own observations are:

 Alnico II magnet = more 'Air'

and

Alnico IV = tighter and more 'focused'.

If you like even more 'air' - Tim has found a way to make the SMs unpotted without squealing .

Mine are Alnico II  and potted, so I cannot give one definitive answer as mine represent only one of four potential variations on the SM theme.

Let us know what you end up with !

Regards,

Derek.

[PhilKing]

Hi Brian, my 335 has unpotted Alnico II, my LP is also unpotted AIV.  If you are not going to use high gain, I would say get the unpotted, you can still really drive them without squeal, but with great feedback.  Tim had told me that he feels that AII and AV don't mix, hence the LP having the AIV.  AIV is a little more Fenderish if that makes it any clearer!