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Author Topic: Two Guitars?  (Read 9123 times)

willo

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Two Guitars?
« on: September 12, 2006, 09:01:41 PM »
Hi there, I recently joined a band in which I am playing second guitar, adding textures, chords and leads.

Wondering if anyone had any tips or ideas on how to fit into this? Deep Purple fans, I'm not talking about harmonised leads! More about what interesting chordal ideas you can play around with two guitars? I'm used to playing as the only guitarist in a band. Now I am trying to fit myself around another man's chordal work. I'm currently circulating around minimal guitar licks, chord inversions, octaves and playing altered chords over the top to change the tonality of the vocal part (i.e. minor instead of minor).

But, I don't want to keep repeating myself!

So, anyone else here have any experiences writing verse/chorus rock songs in two guitar bands?
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sambo

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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2006, 09:05:10 PM »
if the other guys plays a low E for example... you could play it an octave higher... or play an actual octave chord... i.e. a power chord without the middle note... dunno which one u meant when you said octaves...

they both work nicely... also a mix of open chords and power chords can work nicely... in a couple of our songs... the other guitarist plays open chords... whilst i play power chords (of the same notes mind) which gives a really nice texture... ill probably think of some other stuff later...

oh yer... theres always picking chords... that works a treat... dunno if any of this helps.

sambo

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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2006, 09:11:14 PM »
oh and another thing: for licks/little lead bits... you can base the licks/lead bits around the key notes of the chord pattern... (as im sure you know)... but that doesnt mean they have to be the root notes... my teacher recently showed me that it also works really well to match key notes of the lead to the other note in whatever powerchord the other guitarist is playing... for example... the guy plays an E powerchord..... instead of using a higher E for a lead part to match that... you could use a B as its the other note in the chord... or you could alwys just play a B chord...

dunno if u already know this...
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Twinfan

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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2006, 09:14:51 PM »
Different chord voicings work - open C not C barre etc.  Play around with open strings...

willo

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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2006, 09:29:21 PM »
Yeah, cheers guys although (not meaning to be rude) I have got those ideas down.  :D

What I'm thinking about more, is like, how do composers create interesting parts for so many instruments? Surely it can't all be an exercise in playing the same chord either open, fretted or notes an octave up or down. What kind of advanced intervallic theory can happen, with regards to chords?

Most intervallic stuff I have read focuses on leads. What I'm curious to know, is if guitarist one plays say, A major, is there any scope or theory behind guitarist two playing a completely different chord over that? (and I mean, again, in terms of playing something with a different root note - I know that say, E major 7 and E major 9 are largely interchangeable etc)
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Twinfan

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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 09:31:28 PM »
Gawd knows mate - I don't do theory!!!  I just play what sounds good to me  :)

sambo

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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2006, 09:32:31 PM »
lol thort you might have...

well theres the natural minor of a note course... and any harmonised note... i.e... the whole thing about if someone plays an E chord you can play a B chord... or a 4th, 5th, 3rd up/down e.t.c.

that any closer to what your getting at?

dave_mc

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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2006, 09:46:05 PM »
Quote from: willo

What I'm thinking about more, is like, how do composers create interesting parts for so many instruments? Surely it can't all be an exercise in playing the same chord either open, fretted or notes an octave up or down. What kind of advanced intervallic theory can happen, with regards to chords?


well, the vast majority of orchestral instruments are only capable of playing one note at a time, and have quite a limited pitch range... so that'd explain why it's slightly easier to do for, say, an orchestra...

the piano/harpsichord was invented to let one person play the entire orchestral piece by themselves, and/or cover for, say, if you had three friends, one of whom played trumpet, one violin, and one cello, you could, as harpsichordist, cover the viola and lower brass parts, etc.

and the guitar is known as the "one handed keyboard"...

No real help, I'm afraid, but I guess it might help to understand why it works slightly easier for the orchestra...

I have no experience of playing guitar in a band myself, but I guess the main things to do are play a melody line when the other guitarist is playing chords (or vice versa), play arpeggios when he/she's playing chords (again, or vice versa), play barre chords when they're playing in the open position, play inversions, play subtly different chords (say a major 7th when they're playing a major, something like that), play high on the neck when they're low, etc- or let them play the first and the major third, while you play the 5th and 7th (so altogether you're playing a
major 7th), etc.

which as you say, you already know about. I dunno, I guess. :D

Sifu Ben

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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2006, 10:27:10 PM »
Inversions!!!! Also try making up your own triads for fresh voicings.
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steve

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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2006, 10:31:53 PM »
Sack the other guitarist?
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Kilby

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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2006, 10:33:17 PM »
Theres an excellent live album (from the 1980 Black Sea tour) by XTC which is an excellent example of two guitarists playing completely different parts but somehow it works. Theres also a few bootlegs online (if you are interested).

I know it's not the normal style of playing around here but it may give some ideas away from the usual harmony techniques.

Their songbook from that period is online here http://www.optimismsflames.com/animals-page1.htm and there is some explanation in there (and the resultant mutant chords for when the parts are combined for single guitar).

Rob...
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Bainzy

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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2006, 10:39:08 PM »
Quote from: steve
Sack the other guitarist?


:mrgreen:

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

HTH AMPS

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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2006, 10:46:57 PM »
Willo, I think you're over-thinking the problem mate - listen to the existing music and imagine what you'd play in your head before you even pick up your guitar.

 :twisted:

Kilby

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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2006, 10:47:58 PM »
Quote from: Bainzy
Quote from: steve
Sack the other guitarist?


:mrgreen:

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!


Don't forget to lay claim to his equipment shortly beforehand
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sambo

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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2006, 10:48:34 PM »
id half agree with HTH... that works sometimes... but you also need to build up your arsenal of techniques to use..