Mic'ing at Gigs

[willo]

Hey there, questions and advice for all the experienced gig-playing guitarists out there!

I was wondering - being a technical 'gig-virgin' - about mic'ing amps at gigs. I am about to sell my JCM800 and replace it with a different amp, so I have been thinking about wattages and output. Obviously this relates to the issue of mic'ing up.

How often will they mic you up at gigs? Is it standard practise even if you have an amp that can be heard unmic'd?

How does it effect your tone?

If you play a 10W amp at a gig, for instance, and have it mic'd up, will you still be able to hear yourself clearly in the mix (for your own ears)?

I ask all this because both my bands are gearing up for their gigs; and with this whole new amp thing going on, I'd like to work out how much power I can gig with (either mic'd or unmic'd) and what the relative benefits of each are!

Cheers! :D

[OD-Black_Fire]

Most of the small clubs I've seen still have you mic up your amp even if its a massive 100watt, so they can run the sound into the PA system and shoot it out in all directions, so you hear everything evenly.

It will always change your tone but if the club has good equipment and you place the mics correctly (I heard if you place more than one mic in front of your cab, like one at each speaker it makes it sound more "realistic") it should sound nearly the same. I mean when everything is blaring at 100dB you can't tell anyway.

[Word Bearer]

Well alot of it is really going to depend on where you're playing, what the venue is like and what the sound guy is like.

It's certainly a viable option to take a 50watt valve combo to a small to medium sized gig. I wouldn't say it's always standard practice, but most places the sound guy will notice when he needs to mic you and it shouldn't be a problem.
As I said, it can depend on the sound guy whether he'll mic you even if the amp is loud enough to be heard unmic'd. Some like to run the amps at slightly lower volumes and be able to send the sound back through the monitors, whereas other believe that the amp will act as it's own monitor.

All I can suggest is that the ask for opinions on amps you're considering buying and whether people reckon they're loud enough for gigs. Then play some gigs and you'll get used to how things work and hopefully be able to talk with the sound guy during soundchecks to get things sounding how you want.
Monitoring is probably the most important thing when playing live, so makes sure the sound guy doesnt $%&# it up!

[HTH AMPS]

Even a 15w 1x12" valve combo is fine for gigging when it's cranked - just tilt it back so it's aimed at you or put it on a chair.  

I used to gig a Marshall Bluesbreaker combo, they put out around 35w but I was running it flat out and dialing back the guitar volume for cleaner tones.  That was plenty loud for any gig I ever played and for the most part 'too' loud for many vanues.  My argument was always "if it's too loud, you're too old so $%&# off" (heh).

Knowing that you're wanting a loud clean tone in the same vein as the guy from the Chilli's I'd say you'd get away with a 30w non-master volume valve combo if you're using single coils.  If you use humbuckers then you're gonna want at least a 50w amp.

 :twisted:

[jt]

:D Hi willo you need about 40 watts minimum. Unless you can get a really big sounding 30 watter.

Remember the lower the volume the more you can crank it & your opening the valves up alot more without needing an attenuater.

As for mic`ing most venues will use SM57`s as standard if they provide the PA. If you need to use a PA for mic`ing the whole band then the chances are you`ll also get/have monitors [ foldback] so you can hear yourself. Mind you when i used to play on the Metal circiut way back when even though i had monitors i had no probs hearing myself !! LOL my prob was hearing the others !!!  :P LOL

 :D  8)

[willo]

All I can suggest is that the ask for opinions on amps you're considering buying and whether people reckon they're loud enough for gigs.!

I'm currently looking a lot at the Rivera Chubster series; there is a 40W and a 55W version - these should be more than giggable, right? Even in a 1x12 combo?

Knowing that you're wanting a loud clean tone in the same vein as the guy from the Chilli's I'd say you'd get away with a 30w non-master volume valve combo if you're using single coils.  If you use humbuckers then you're gonna want at least a 50w amp.

I'm actually moving away from that sound...it would be nice to have that for certain things, but tones I am loving at the moment are marc ribot for the jazzier/overdrive stuff, and just good fuzz tones for heavier things (a la Billy Corgan). Would you need a 50W amp just to maintain the clean sound without it overdriving (from the higher output humbuckers?). I'm currently playing a Les Paul with VHII's (probably switch to Black Dogs - my rock guitar), and a strat with Mothers Milk & Crawlers, and I'm gonna pick up either a semi hollowbody with P90's or an old Mustang, not sure which,..,.

[sambo]

not sure if anyone else has said this yet...

but in the few places ive been... (one quite small) we've been mic'ed up and had monitors... so i dont think it really matters if you have a small amp tbh... unless you playing bars (i dunno what venues there are in your area obviously)... basically what im saying is... any venue which regularly has music events usually has its own PA system with monitors... meaning the size of your amp is effectively irrlevant...

of course what you dont want to happen.. is to buy a little amp... and then get a cr@p-load of gigs in pubs/bars where theres no monitors/PA system and you have to rely on your amp alone... your buggered then.

[HTH AMPS]

Willo, those Rivera amps are tasty little things indeed.  Do you NEED an overdrive channel or would a clean amp with a fuzzbox be more your thing?

If you go the clean amp + pedal route, then it's gotta be a non-master volume amp... Selmer T&B, 50w plexi, Laney Supergroup, Fender Bassman etc... These can ALL be had for under £500.

If you need an overdrive channel, then it's more modern amps.  You could really do worse than checkout something by Matamp - tell them what you want and they build it, simple as.

 :twisted:

[jordan]

I'm currently looking a lot at the Rivera Chubster series; there is a 40W and a 55W version - these should be more than giggable, right? Even in a 1x12 combo?

Definitely!!!
I own a 55w Rivera R55 (1x12), and it's very loud - the dirty channel struggles to get above 3-4 without hurting people, and the clean rarely gets above 5.

I have also used a Palmer PDI-09 speaker emulator on the line out, and send this to the PA at gigs, although if I'm honest I prefer the sound of an SM57 in front of it - the speaker emulator is good, but it just doesn't sound close enough to the real speaker in the amp. I'm also just about to add a 2x12 extension cab into the lineup, but more for added spread and depth than volume (of which I definitely don't need any more). However, I've used the R55 on its own (no added cab, no mic, no speaker emulator) at a fair few gigs and it sounds great on its own. Definitely no worries with either the 40w or 55w Chubster in terms of volume available,

Out of interest, I originally planned to buy the 40w Chubster, and played a couple at the time. They're great amps, and the added depth of the cabinet makes it sound alot bigger than a 1x12. I would have bought one, but the week I planned to do it I found the R55 on ebay, and got it for £650 in mint condition. Definitely the luckiest I've ever been when GASing :-)

Hope some of that helps,
Jordan.

[JJretroTONEGOD]

NEVER use a Neumann U87-A or TML103 to mic a guitar cab live, use something cheaper. I really like 2x sm57s, on on the front one inside the back of the amp in an open back combo or stack! see ya

[willo]

Do you NEED an overdrive channel or would a clean amp with a fuzzbox be more your thing?

Hmmm. Well, I really like the old sound of a Fender cranked up, where it can be clean but also gritty and sharp. My understanding of the Rivera is that these sounds along with the 'pure' cleans, can be found on the clean channel. Channel 2 gets into Marshall-type overdrives, which will suit me fine. I do like a nice bluesy overdrive from time to time; but on my pedal board I'm gonna have my fuzz and then a harder distortion for heavier things - the natural overdrive of the amp would be like having a 3rd option, IMO.

Regarding Matamp, yeah I like their stuff. But they don't do channel switching, and I'm also not 110% certain I'd actually make a good amp if I custom'd it. I don't really know enough about the workings of an amp. I have this horrible image that it would be the amplifier equivalent of when Homer Simpson designed that car! Having said that, they are still very much an option.

Cheers for all the advice too, Sam & Jordan - Jordan in fact it was great to hear from a Rivera user - they don't seem to be too common in this country and soundclips are nigh on impossible to find!

[jordan]

Cheers for all the advice too, Sam & Jordan - Jordan in fact it was great to hear from a Rivera user - they don't seem to be too common in this country and soundclips are nigh on impossible to find!

No problem at all. I remember being in your position, when I was about to buy one. They were literally as rare as rocking horse sh*t in the UK, until my local guitar store (MM Music in Southampton) started stocking them. I only found out about it because I read a review in Guitarist magazine and recognised the phone number of the UK dealer! I tried a few, really fell for every one I played, then got very lucky on ebay. Best of luck to you, I hope you can get hold of one.

Cheers
Jordan

[HTH AMPS]

Willo, from your description I'd say that a Mesa Maverick would really nail what you're looking for - I REALLY like those amps.  The Mesa Heartbreaker would also fit the bill.

They're both out of current production but they're on ebay all the time - many shops still have 'em too (on closeout deals).

 :twisted:

[38thBeatle]

Hi Willo, if you do choose the small amp route and rely on being mic'd-bear in mind that there are house PA's and there are house PA's-some good, some not so good (without even mentioning the soundman). I'd get an amp that I was happy with that could cope with most situations and 50w would be ample-Sorry if I am stating the obvious.

[willo]

Willo, from your description I'd say that a Mesa Maverick would really nail what you're looking for - I REALLY like those amps.  The Mesa Heartbreaker would also fit the bill.

They're both out of current production but they're on ebay all the time - many shops still have 'em too (on closeout deals).

 :twisted:

Cheers, I'll check them out. Although, I wouldn't feel to comfortable buying an amp without knowing how it sounds, hopefully one will come up (fairly) locally.

Also, Mesa's just aren't quite that cool for the lo-fi jazz thing, are they?  :D