New user, need pickup advice

[Venomboy]

I'm getting a Moser Custom Shop Siren built and am trying to decide on pickups.

I've used EMG 81/85's since 1985. I have 2 custom BCR's with DiMarzio Super Distorion/PAF combos that I really like. I like the DiMarzio's over the EMGs because they sound more alive and organic. I was considering a Super Distortion and PAF Pro.

Here's what I play. I don't want to sound exactly like another player:
Old Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, Testament, Priest, King Diamond, Iron Maiden, etc. My drummer and I also write more progressive metal stuff with lots of double picking runs. I like to palm mute. I hate scooped mids when I play.

I want the bridge pickup to have:
Plenty of mids
Easy to achieve harmonics and pinch harmonics
An uncompressed sound (I feel EMGs are a little too compressed)
Good clean sound

I want the neck pickup to have:
Good clean sound
Bubbly Dave Murray lead sound
Not too muddy, not too bright

I play through a Framus Cobra 1/2 stack so I don't need a ridiculously high output pickup. I play lots of clean stuff too on both pickups. My amp is very tight and responsive.

I like the Super Distortion but at times it's a *hair* muddy and I want the PAF to sound more bubbly.

My guitar will be made of mahogany with an ebony fretboard. The body is fairly large. It will have either a fixed wraparound bridge or string thru bridge.

I listened to a lot of clips here and like the following:
Steve Stevens (sounds open)
Nailbomb (maybe a little too gritty?)
Warpig

The MiracleMan sounds a little compressed for rhythm work, kinda like an EMG 81.

I'm not opposed to different models for neck and bridge.

[scottsoldano]

I have a lot of BKP's and without a doubt you need:

Painkiller Bridge, v hot but with tight low end thump and massive mid range crunch but still very open.

VH2 neck, great clean but fat and articulate for lead stuff ala Dave Murray

They should sound great in your guitar too, Tim had a painkiller set in a plain mahagany Explorer at Music live and it was great.

Hope this has helped !

[Antag]

...lots of double picking runs. I like to palm mute. I hate scooped mids when I play.
I want the bridge pickup to have:
Plenty of mids
Easy to achieve harmonics and pinch harmonics
An uncompressed sound (I feel EMGs are a little too compressed)
Good clean sound

IMO the Nailbomb ticks all these boxes.

Nailbomb (maybe a little too gritty?)

Not sure I understand exactly what you mean?

I want the neck pickup to have:
Good clean sound
Bubbly Dave Murray lead sound
Not too muddy, not too bright

Cold Sweat neck IMO.

[maliciousteve]

Venomboy? from the JCFOnline?  if so, you have some killer gear

[Venomboy]

Yes, it's me from the JCF (and other forums).

Thanks for the input!

So it looks like Painkiller or Nailbomb for the bridge and VHII or Cold Sweat for the neck.

What's the biggest differences tonally between all these pickups? I've been trying to go through a lot of threads and clips but my head is currently spinning!

[maliciousteve]

Well the Painkiller screams with mids whilst having very tight bass responce and a biting top end. It works very well with big mahogany bodied guitars ( as heard in Tim Mills' Explorer).

The Nailbomb has a higher DC resistance and sounds like it has more output than the Painkiller. It's got the same (if not a bit less) mids as the Painkiller but it doesn't have the same low end responce, i think it's more for guitars with a very bassy tone (please correct me if i'm wrong).


For the neck pickup I hear Cold Sweats sound great. Chris Boderick uses Nailbombs and Cold Sweats in his 7 strings. I've never played with them unfortunatly so i can't give an informative opinion.

Edit: a bit more to add. The Painkiller and Nailbomb use different magnets. The Painkiller uses Ceramic magnets which i think sound a little darker than the Alnico V magnets used in the Nailbomb.

[Venomboy]

Thanks Malicious!

[MDV]

Remember that though the DC of the PK is lower than the NB, its got a big ass ceramic magnet that ups the power.

I've heard its the second most powerfull standard issue BK after the WP as a result. I cant vouch for that as I havent played either, though.

Maybe someone that has can tell us?

[Antag]

Remember that though the DC of the PK is lower than the NB, its got a big ass ceramic magnet that ups the power.

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance, but I don't see how: 15.6k is 15.6k, regardless of what combination of magnet & winding produced it.

Anyway, surely it would have to be at least 3rd behind the MM (which is 17.8k with a Ceramic magnet)?

[MDV]

In physical terms the current induced in the coil is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field and the number of turns surrounding the coil.

Wire guage (thickness) being equal you can estiamte the number of turns with the length of the wire, which you can estimate with DC resistance. Resistance is directly proportional to length.

The magnetic flux will increase the strength of the current in each turn.

Pickups are inductors, :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction

Its never as simple as you think!

Edit: to clarify: a DC reading is the resistance to direct current of the length of the wire in the coil. This will also decrease with increasing cross sectional surface area (like in a hose pipe: the narrower it is, the harder to push through water). BUT the inductance (power) of the pickup only depends on the number of turns.

So 2 pickups with the same DC can have very different powers by:
A: Having different powered (more or less magnetic flux density, in webers) magnets
B: having different thicknesses of wire, that have their length (the number of winds) changed to make them have the same DC resistance.

[Antag]

No, somehow I didn't think it would be :lol:

Explain this though:  if the DC resistance is a measure of output, surely an Alnico pickup with 16k has marginally more output than a ceramic one with 15.6k?

(of course, in practice they'd sound tonally different but the differences people would hear wouldn't necessarily be output level - there being little to choose between the two?)

If you said that of two pickups wound the same way but with different magnets that the Ceramic one would have more output, I'd understand.  Or is DC resistance not strictly a measure of output?

[Antag]

That last post was made before I saw your edit - OK, makes a bit more sense, thanks for the physics lesson! :)

[MDV]

Basically, yeah, DC is only a 'measure' of resistance if everything else is the same. Wire guage and magnet have a big effect, and subjective power is affected by the tone as well

[Neemo]

Nailbomb bridge, Cold Sweat neck, no doubt about it.

[chrisheyes]

The Miracle Man Bridge was designed to emulate the EMG's as used by Zak Wylde. You will get all the pinch harmonics you ever dreamed of.

For the Neck position  try a Mule - Supposed to be a hot version of a PAF