Heavy thick bridge PU for Les Pauls and SG's.

[djpatb]

Hi there!
 
I'm looking for a versatile PU for the bridge slot on my Les Paul goldtop and my SG's.
 
Currently, I've been using a Rio Grande BBQ's, and I'm pretty happy with them, but wanna try something different. My playing spans the styles Clutch, Fu Manchu, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Zakk Wylde, Alice in Chains, Black Sabbath, King's X and some bluesy classic rock too (like Mountain to AC/DC to Guns N' Roses). I'm using Splawn and VHT amps, so I have tons of gain on tap with them.
 
Which model would cover this span well?
I prefer dark, thick tones, and I need a model that cleans up well with the volume rolled back, decent mids to cut through on solos, and something with great artificial harmonics.
 
I'm considering the Miracle Man, Holy Diver, Nailbomb, Warpig, or maybe the VHII. What would you say?

 
Thanks!
--Pat

[Antag]

Holy Diver - the first & last word in THICK tone :)

I love the massive midrange chunk, the thick creamy lead tone, the fat punchy output, the harmonics, yet it also has a smooth warm clean sound.  In a Les Paul it just growls :twisted:  Needless to say, it's my favourite BKP :lol:

Welcome to the forum BTW...

[djpatb]

Thanks a lot Antag. I was just reading that the Holy Diver is a better version of a classic Duncan JB, so that sounds cool. I love doing the Zakk Wylde artificial harmonic thing, so that's why I was considering the Miracle Man, but I really do favor Alnico mags instead of ceramics. Any experience with the Holy Diver in a Gibson SG?

[carlaz]

For another  non-ceramic option, I'd definitely suggest considering the Crawlers.  I've got them in my LP Std, following Tim's suggestion when I was also looking for pups that would suit a range of rock styles from classic to metal.

They're very much like a hot PAF, like a hotter version of the Mule with a touch of added mid-range grunt to cut you through.  I've been very happy with them :) and as an added bonus, though most people are focused on bridge pickup, the Crawler neck is to die for!

That said, for many of the more classically toned bands you mentioned, Mules themselves would probably do very well.  But for added heat, I'd definitely keep the Crawlers in mind.

[Kepu]

^you know these are BKPs, made by hand, for you
you can get Miracle Men with alnico mags if you want, just ask them to do so

EDIT: sorry, that was pointed to djpatb

[Philly Q]

My playing spans the styles Clutch, Fu Manchu, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Zakk Wylde, Alice in Chains, Black Sabbath, King's X and some bluesy classic rock too (like Mountain to AC/DC to Guns N' Roses).

Haven't really got any pickup recommendations, just wanted to say you have magnificent taste in music, sir!  Especially the mighty Clutch. 8)

Edit: Actually, I do have a comment - you mentioned putting a Holy Diver in an SG.  From what I've read, it would be much too bassy/muddy (unless you like that kind of tone).  You'd be OK with the WP, PK or MM, or one of the Vintage models.

[carlaz]

My playing spans the styles Clutch, Fu Manchu, Corrosion of Conformity, Down, Zakk Wylde, Alice in Chains, Black Sabbath, King's X and some bluesy classic rock too (like Mountain to AC/DC to Guns N' Roses).

[...] you have magnificent taste in music, sir!  Especially the mighty Clutch. 8)

Seconded on all counts, including the mighty Clutch bit. 8)  I am so bummed I missed Clutch opening for Motorhead a couple of weeks ago (family emergency in S.America called us away; what can ya do!?).  I was bummed to miss Motorhead too, but I've seen them loads of times, and Clutch only once so far!  Argh

Edit: Actually, I do have a comment - you mentioned putting a Holy Diver in an SG.  From what I've read, it would be much too bassy/muddy (unless you like that kind of tone).  You'd be OK with the WP, PK or MM, or one of the Vintage models.

Doesn't Ratrod have something SG-like with Crawlers in it?

[Philly Q]

Doesn't Ratrod have something SG-like with Crawlers in it?

I think that's a Yamaha SG, so more LP-like really.  It seems that a maple top does a lot to counteract the bassiness of mahogany.

[carlaz]

Thinking of COC/Down, I've heard Pepper Keenan has used both Tom Anderson H3s and SD Invaders in the bridge positions, and P-90s of some sort in the neck.  I don't know what the stats on the Tom Anderson are (except that it's supposed to be pretty hot), but the Invader bridge is ceramic and around 16+k; the Cold Sweat is not quite as hot, but perhaps has a similar vibe?

That said, I wouldn't have guessed he used pups like that except that I read it.  I would have guessed PAFish or hot PAFish.  Shows what I know!  But maybe it works a treat in SGs?  Alas, I've no idea what Tim Sult from Clutch uses; sounds pretty open and organic to me, but we've already proven I'm bad at this guessing game! ;)

But what about an MQ in the neck for an SG though?  That oughta be a good choice in any case.  I guess I'm less sure on the bridge.  But I still like a Crawler set for the LP, though. :)

[Philly Q]

That said, I wouldn't have guessed he used pups like that except that I read it.  I would have guessed PAFish or hot PAFish.  Shows what I know!  But maybe it works a treat in SGs?  Alas, I've no idea what Tim Sult from Clutch uses; sounds pretty open and organic to me, but we've already proven I'm bad at this guessing game! ;)

Keenan also has a goldtop with P90s, and who knows what he uses in the studio?  Woody Weatherman gets a very Iommi-like tone, but I think he's also using an Invader in an SG.  Tim Sult has 70s SGs with (I think) replacement bridge pickups, but no idea what they are.  

It's really hard to tell anything about gear just by listening to an isolated part, though, isn't it?  There are so many variables - amps, speakers, effects, mikes, mike placement, recording equipment, strings, the player's technique.  If you played me clips of the same guy playing the same part using two different pickups in the same guitar through the same amp, I could hear the difference - otherwise, I'm lost.

I always think it's pointless when guitar manufacturers put audio clips on their sites.  It sounds like.... a guitar.  :roll:

[carlaz]

I hear those observations!

Well, if I were going for good classic tones in an SG (that would take in Iommi-style tones) I'd maybe go for a MQ set, or maybe a Mule bridge/MQ neck.

For modern Iommi, on the other hand, I remember Gibson's Iommi signature pup being fairly hot: 14kish, and apparently a mix of A2 and ceramic magents (not sure how that's arranged -- maybe they mean ceramic bridge and A2 neck, or maybe each pup has 2 magnets?).  In any case, it does, actually, sound like it might be a bit more like a Cold Sweat in BKP terms ....

[Ratrod]

Doesn't Ratrod have something SG-like with Crawlers in it?

I think that's a Yamaha SG, so more LP-like really.  It seems that a maple top does a lot to counteract the bassiness of mahogany.

You're right. It's mahogany with a maple top. The body itself is a bit thinner than a Les Paul. Crawlers were designed to go well with Les Pauls as well as Strats.

[Tusko]

Dtpatb,

I have  very similar taste - and went on a tone quest similar to yours, my answer would be a alnico V Nailbomb in the bridge, and a Mississippi Queen p90 in the neck.

The bridge handles harmonics with ease, cleans up lovely and has a perfect midrange 'chunk' for chugging away.

For example, when I got my new amp (Peavey JSX Head into Orange 4x12) I Just riffed away until I got cramp. Nuff said :P

The neck has a great 'woody' tone and not muddy like some neck humbuckers. Great definition for shredding also.

A perfect match for me.

Tuning down a whole step or to C# is my sweet spot and these BKP's take it all in their stride.

Guitar is a Gibson Les Paul Studio. I can post some tone clips if you'd like.

[38thBeatle]

I cannot help with pup suggestions-being a single coil type and all that but welcome to the old forum.

[djpatb]

Thanks a lot guys. I haven't tried the Duncan Invader yet, but I did give the Anderson H3 a shot...ala Pepper Keenan. I put it into a Gibby SG Special...and it just kinda sounded lifeless. It was hot, but seemed dull, so I sold it.

At this point I feel like I could go in a few different directions with some new BKP, and I think I'd be happy with a few different options. I'm fairly happy witht he Rio Grande BBQ's that I've been using in my SG's, but I'd like a little better definition and stronger harmonics. I usually stay away from super hot ceramics, but the Miracle Man is so tempting for my Les Paul. So, right now, I'm considering the MM, Holy Diver and Crawler for my Les Pauls, and maybe Warpigs or Holy Diver for my SG's. I really don't have a handle on where the Nailbomb fits in the spectrum though.