"Too Much Cut"? / 2 guitar band

[willo]

Hey ho, Merry Christmas and 2007.

Basically, I'm playing guitar in a band with another guitarist, which is a first for me. We're currently working on songs and getting some kind of balance between the two guitars.

My 'problem' ('' because I'm not sure it is), is that my guitar tends to totally dominate proceedings. However, both guitars are playing at pretty much the same volumes, its just that at times my guitar tramples all over the other guys.

Now, I don't really know much at all about frequencies etc, but I do look at our respective set-ups and wonder if I'm cutting through more because my guitar signal is losing less in the signal chain? Is this possible?

Other guitarists set-up

Telecaster Thinline with wide/fat pickups
Fender 1x12 amp (blues deluxe?)
About 8 BOSS pedals, and a wah; no true bypass
Planet Waves Cables

My Setup

Custom made strat with Bareknuckle Crawler/Mothers Milk set
Marshall 2x12 JCM800 4103
2 FX pedals, both true bypass
Custom Van Damme cables

I mean, I wonder if the reason my guitar seems to be more prominent is because I have a much cleaner signal path, is this possible?

[maverickf1jockey]

your pups are probably about 100 times more powerful than his are.
i have heard wahs can bugger up the signal sound without true bypass though. put some money in the pot and see if you can get him a better wah, or if you're handy with your soldering skills fit a bypass yourself. the schematics are probably all over the net.
just needs a google.

[Ratrod]

I think the other guy simply needs to add some mids, treble and presence. For these types of Fender amps, the following setting provides some nice cut thru vintage tones:

Bass: 11 o' clock
Mids: 12 o' clock
treble: 3 o' clock
presence 2 o' clock

Or for a modern tone:
Bass: 1 o' clock
Mids: 2 o' clock
treble: 3 o' clock
presence 2 o' clock

Maybe lose some of the pedals too.

[Skybone]

Maybe he also needs at least another speaker, you're pushing a little bit more air than he is. Also, ask him when his amp was last serviced, it might have lost some "oomph" if he's not had it looked at for a while, especially if he's been playing at high volumes.

Don't forget that humbuckers are louder than single coils, but the Tele should be cutting through your sound like a knife... Maybe roll back your volume a touch?

[hunter]

He might use too many FX or gain.

Usually it's good to have two different sounds, one guitar more spheric and one more direct. If you're playing the "direct" part you will always cut through better - just make sure you play good then :o)

If he plays the part of filling and making wide then that's fine too. He might not be as transparent and clear as you but comes more "through the sides" and you bam through the middle. Don't know if this makes any sense, but that's the way we did it in my old band a decade ago. I was the more spheric guy, always used delays and a lot of gain and was happy in that role.

Nowadays I'm more the direct in your face sound type of guy ...

What might do miracles to his tone would be a true bypass looper so he can skip all his FX.

[maverickf1jockey]

What might do miracles to his tone would be a true bypass looper so he can skip all his FX.

i have one of those on my amp. it actually sounds better going through the bypassed pedals so i don't bother.

[38thBeatle]

A double looper or even a triple might be worth getting-he can put his pedals in up to three loops then and only use the f/x he needs for that particular song. I just got a single loop off Ebay-£25.00. goggle, for example, Loopmaster for an idea of what is around. I agree also that with a 1 x 12 he won't be moving much air.

[Joe Dorcia]

One thing you could try, without spending any more, is changing around the amp positions in the room. You also have to remember your playing a strat, he's playing a thinline tele, they are much duller and fatter than strats.

You also have to think about whos playing what, as hunter said, but check when your both playing, can you tell if he stops playing or not?

Me and my bro both play in our band, i play a strat, he plays firebirds and teles, i have a 4x12, he has a 2x12, makes no difference to us, we just make sure they are the right volume together and that everything sounds full when wear playing toghether. You just have to find a nice balance of tone. sit down with the band and just have a little experiment.

joe

[zigmund]

Joe and hunter nail the fact that it's not a volume issue with 2 axers, though these things left unchecked can lead to it appearing and ending up that way!
  Find out if it's a generic point of view in the band that the "imbalance" is as you say: other issues ranging from self-esteem, confidence to basic amp (and monitor) placement often mask as the "someone is too loud" phenomenon.
  Also, it may be that an outsider may be able to spot a dynamic that you haven't; grab someone and get them to pace about making knowledgeable frowns.
  Amount of notes. A too busy player is one who doesn't listen; this skill as you're maybe finding only comes with doin' it. You may both be "talking" at the same time, rather than developing the "conversational skill" of 2 players in a harmonious musical relationship.
  Or, as touched upon, one of you may have to start playing(say) an inversion or basic triad if the other guy has the chuggy end covered..loadsa stuff like this.
   What really, really helps(which might go against the grain) is to work out  ways to purposefully augment and set off the other guy's work in your own playing...cut him some space for a gallop about; you'll find that you're actually freeing yourslelf up too.
  (Ooer, all a bit luvvyduvvy there, don't get the wrong idea)

[JamesHealey]

your pickups will cut through better and marshalls have more mids which slice through the mix..

his setup wont cut anything like yours will.. try get him to dial in more mids, and maybe push some of yours back so they even out..

[willo]

Interesting thoughts, guys.

In reply to Joe's idea, we both kinda play similar parts at times. It's a bit like Sonic Youth in that you don't always know who is playing which bit. I predominantly do leads, but I've also got a big interest in delays and ambience. The other guy does lots of stuff with his BOSS delays too.

James, my mids are already at 11 o clock, thats not that many mids is it? Maybe I'll get him to dial more in.

It's a bit tricky, because there are times when apparently it's completlely fine, and then times when I'm cutting through like a mofo.

[Kilby]

I would suggest at a rehersal removing all his pedals and seeing if that makes a difference.

Also try swapping guitars with each other and seeing if the problem follows the guitar.

Also when you mention a Thinline Tele I tend to think of the old fender humbuckers (you mention wide fat pickups).

[Twinfan]

You might find it's the way you attack the strings - this can have a big effect on the cut of your sound.

[OD-Black_Fire]

I think a guitarist should always stick with his feel and adjust the equipment to suit it, not the other way around.

[Mr Ed]

I doubt it's down to the signal path, personally I think he needs a larger amp - your 800's gonna be pissing on him from a great height.

He definately needs more mids, it's all about the mids, or maybe he should look into some sort of a clean boost pedal to give his signal a little extra. If he used it just right, he could get a bit more saturation in his tone, a little extra volume without colouring the EQ at all.

Or, a guitarists true best friend, a good sturdy EQ pedal - the MXR 6-band is very very good and the 10 band is also good but a little more difficult to fine tune... but something like that would really allow him to shape his sound to suit yours (or vice versa of course) at little cost. The 6-band one would cost about £40 and they have a considerable boost, something like 18db's of boost or cut each frequency.

Also, maybe a bit daft... but how are your amps situated? Are they both at ground level? Tilted? Raised up altogether? Facing the same way? Etc...

Are you talking about practise or at gigs, btw?