how much wattage in a valve amp is really needed?

[Dixie_Crap]

hi,
i am currently looking to buy a half stack to play with in my band,  i have been looking at the laney vh100r in particular.   which is abviously 100 watts, but is this too much?  the other guitarist in the band has just ordered a tsl100 and claims that if i don't get an amp with around the same wattage it woun't sound as "big".  this may be true but i have read reviews of the laney and they all say that it is almost too loud and they have to buy a power soak to play it a usable volumes with a good distortion.
For the same price (£600) i can get the orange rocker30 (30 watts) and claims to be pretty hi-gain. but 1) will it be loud enough? and 2) will it sound "big" enough?

any advise would be great, plus any suggestions for other (hi-gain-ish) heads (as few £s as possible) would be great

cheers x

[jordan]

the other guitarist in the band has just ordered a tsl100 and claims that if i don't get an amp with around the same wattage it woun't sound as "big".
......
For the same price (£600) i can get the orange rocker30 (30 watts) and claims to be pretty hi-gain. but 1) will it be loud enough? and 2) will it sound "big" enough?

Don't listen to the other guitarist, and don't confuse 'volume' with 'spread'.
Sure, a 50w marshall and a 100w marshall might have different tonal characteristics, but you'll never get either of them running full tilt (without breaking windows), and you'll struggle to hear a volume difference between them.

In my opinion, a 30w head running through a 4x12 can sound much bigger than a 100w head running through a smaller cab. Remember also, that the magic happens with valve amps when you get the power valves really working. This happens when you wind the volume up.....somthing which is marginally easier to do with a lower wattage amp.

Just my opinions....

[Mr Ed]

That's bollocks.

I have a JCM900 4100 which is a 100W head but it has a half-power switch so it runs at 50W and that's fine through my 2x12. You don't need 100W blasting out unless you're playing an arena or a festival or something.

Tell this clown to listen to a cranked Vox AC30 and then see what he thinks about needing a watt-monster.

As the guy above me said, it's more about how much air you're shifting. A good head/combo with enough speakers will sound bigger than Oprah's ass.

[Dixie_Crap]

In my opinion, a 30w head running through a 4x12 can sound much bigger than a 100w head running through a smaller cab.

I really like the idea of this, what other heads around the 30/50 watt mark are worth taking a look at?  i play melodic post hardcore (so a nice clean would be good but i am not asking for boutique old man tweed kinda thing, but as is always the way love to dabble in metal e.g. killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold.

i have been reading other forum comments and read a suggestion that it could be a good solution to buy a good clean amp and then a good distortion pedal.  but at the moment i have an ashdown peacemaker combo which has a nice clean (if i wanted to play country), but a very poor raspy channel 2 (much too oldmanish) and am not very happy with it.

i dont really use effects, so it'll just be my les paul classic stright in

[hunter]

You won't usually crank the 100watter anyway, means it might not sound good (some amps sound also good at master 1-2).

I used to have a 5150 which has 120W and the other guitarist in the band had a VOX AC30, the VOX always cut through better than me. It's all subjective, watt and dB are not related linear.

I think 18W (2xEL84 in Class A/B or 1xEL34 or 1x6L6 Class A) is just sufficient to keep up with a rock drummer (if you don't need funky clean).

30W (4xEL84 or 2xEL34 in Class A) or 50W (2xEL34/6L6 in A/B) would be enough also if you play medium clubs and don't mic the amps.

I usually like 50/60W amps, but would love to get a smaller Orange Rocker 30 for a quicky here and there :o)

[Mr Ed]

I really like the idea of this, what other heads around the 30/50 watt mark are worth taking a look at?  i play melodic post hardcore (so a nice clean would be good but i am not asking for boutique old man tweed kinda thing, but as is always the way love to dabble in metal e.g. killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold.

Peavey Classic 50 (great all-rounder)
Marshall JCM900 series
Marshall JCM800 series
Fender Hot Rod series

[_tom_]

I really like the idea of this, what other heads around the 30/50 watt mark are worth taking a look at?  i play melodic post hardcore (so a nice clean would be good but i am not asking for boutique old man tweed kinda thing, but as is always the way love to dabble in metal e.g. killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold.

Peavey Classic 50 (great all-rounder)
Marshall JCM900 series
Marshall JCM800 series
Fender Hot Rod series

Definately dont get the Hot Rod if you want a good metal tone. Its got a really nice clean but you cannot get anything above blues out of it without pedals.

I have a Laney GH50L and it sounds really good for anything other than pristine clean, but thats for tossers anyway ;)

[jordan]

what other heads around the 30/50 watt mark are worth taking a look at?  i play melodic post hardcore (so a nice clean would be good but i am not asking for boutique old man tweed kinda thing, but as is always the way love to dabble in metal e.g. killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold.

I always recommend these, but anyway.....

Try getting hold of a 2nd hand Rivera. They have monster distortion on tap, as well as one of the best clean sounds I've ever heard. I have a 55w 1x12 combo that is seriously loud (I'd actually prefer it to be 30w), and I use that with a 2x12 cab to get some extra spread.

[BigK]

Try an Engl Fireball 60w head very nice cleans and brutal distortion. miles better than a marshall tsl in my opinion.

[Mr Ed]

Try an Engl Fireball 60w head very nice cleans and brutal distortion. miles better than a marshall tsl in my opinion.

You could fart in a jam jar and it'd sound better than a TSL.

[indysmith]

I really like the idea of this, what other heads around the 30/50 watt mark are worth taking a look at?  i play melodic post hardcore (so a nice clean would be good but i am not asking for boutique old man tweed kinda thing, but as is always the way love to dabble in metal e.g. killswitch engage and avenged sevenfold.

Peavey Classic 50 (great all-rounder)
Marshall JCM900 series
Marshall JCM800 series
Fender Hot Rod series

Definately dont get the Hot Rod if you want a good metal tone. Its got a really nice clean but you cannot get anything above blues out of it without pedals.

I have a Laney GH50L and it sounds really good for anything other than pristine clean, but thats for tossers anyway ;)

for killswitch and sevenfold i definately wouldn't go for a jcm800 either.

[bucketshred]

Try an Engl Fireball 60w head very nice cleans and brutal distortion. miles better than a marshall tsl in my opinion.

You could fart in a jam jar and it'd sound better than a TSL.

Well, I'm glad mine sounds better than yours!

[Mr Ed]

Try an Engl Fireball 60w head very nice cleans and brutal distortion. miles better than a marshall tsl in my opinion.

You could fart in a jam jar and it'd sound better than a TSL.

Well, I'm glad mine sounds better than yours!

Huh?  :?

[bucketshred]

Try an Engl Fireball 60w head very nice cleans and brutal distortion. miles better than a marshall tsl in my opinion.

You could fart in a jam jar and it'd sound better than a TSL.

Well, I'm glad mine sounds better than yours!

Huh?  :?

Well you must have had some experience playing thru a TSL, so I'm glad my experience sounded better than yours!

I love my TSL with a good boost in front of it for metal, yeh I'd prefer a JCM800 or a Splawn but I just can't afford them!

For the price, I don't think you really can get much better than a TSL for the range of flexibility and sounds they provide (for all valve anyway) and the amount of features the amp provides.

Andy!

[Mr Ed]

Ah right, yeah... I've tried a few and found them all to be the same. A bland, lifeless attempt at a clean channel, an overdrive channel that really, really pales in comparison to older Marshalls and the middle channel sounded like an abortion.

:D