So I'm looking for a new amp.

[Vindication]

The ENGL 860 & 850 are "rackheads", which means they are coplete amp heads built into a rack  :lol:   both of them have preamp & poweramp and run in stereo (860 - 2x50w, 850 - 2x35w), so all you will need is a speaker cabinet.

Ah, my bad...I read that as a preamp rack unit at first :P

This isn't relevant to amp tones, but why exactly make a head in rack form?  Easy/convenient switching?

Means you can have it... in a rack....

Rack units...in racks?

Your idea intrigues me.

[noodleplugerine]

The ENGL 860 & 850 are "rackheads", which means they are coplete amp heads built into a rack  :lol:   both of them have preamp & poweramp and run in stereo (860 - 2x50w, 850 - 2x35w), so all you will need is a speaker cabinet.

Ah, my bad...I read that as a preamp rack unit at first :P

This isn't relevant to amp tones, but why exactly make a head in rack form?  Easy/convenient switching?

Means you can have it... in a rack....

Rack units...in racks?

Your idea intrigues me.

:D :D :D

Yeah, it's mostly for studios I guess, practicality and professional tidyness.

[Vindication]

:D :D :D

Yeah, it's mostly for studios I guess, practicality and professional tidyness.

Alright.

Sorry to semi-spam in here...I know what I want tone-wise, but I don't know much about equipment itself.

I wish I could try that Engl.  It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for - Muhammed's got a killer tone.  It's Engl, so I'm assuming it's gonna have good cleans too (like the Powerball), but I'm concerned about one other thing...can it pull off a hotrodded Marshall-type crunch?  I've heard complaints about the Powerball that it can do cleans and ultra high-gain, but nothing in between.

Greatly looking forward to more input, and I really appreciate all the help given so far.  Lotta tolerance for a gear newbie :P

[Mr Ed]

I've been meaning to try a JCM800.  I remember trying a 900 and I didn't like it at all.  However, I'm really not looking for pedal distortion - I'd like the amp to be able to do metal by itself.

Fair dinkum.

I'd say that an 800 (the 2203 in particular) is one of the quintessential 80's metal amps but I think you might need a little something to really get the juice out of it... even if that came in the form of a clean boost or an overdrive pedal, just something to get another 5-10% out of the pre-amp.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I've been meaning to try a JCM800.  I remember trying a 900 and I didn't like it at all.  However, I'm really not looking for pedal distortion - I'd like the amp to be able to do metal by itself.

Fair dinkum.

I'd say that an 800 (the 2203 in particular) is one of the quintessential 80's metal amps but I think you might need a little something to really get the juice out of it... even if that came in the form of a clean boost or an overdrive pedal, just something to get another 5-10% out of the pre-amp.

+1

You could also try a BBE sonic maximiser in the FX loop
Makes a JCM800 sound crushing
Adds top and bottom and gets it a lot more Zakk Wylde like

[Vindication]

Fair dinkum.

I'd say that an 800 (the 2203 in particular) is one of the quintessential 80's metal amps but I think you might need a little something to really get the juice out of it... even if that came in the form of a clean boost or an overdrive pedal, just something to get another 5-10% out of the pre-amp.

+1

You could also try a BBE sonic maximiser in the FX loop
Makes a JCM800 sound crushing
Adds top and bottom and gets it a lot more Zakk Wylde like

Now, let's not get hasty.

I don't like Zakk Wylde's playing, nor do I like his tone very much - it's too thick and the bottom end is really loose.  (Plus, if I wanted to drink myself into a stupor and hit pinch harmonics, I would've done that already :P)

A Marshall probably isn't the thing I'm looking for lead-wise, and it might not even be high enough gain for rhythm stuff.  This is why I'm kinda hesitant on them.  I'll make sure to check out the JCM800 as soon as I get the chance, but I didn't make a post recommending different setups for a Marshall - I'd like to avoid having to buy thousands of trinkets to get my amp to sound good.  The only things I'd probably be willing to change are the tubes, and perhaps throw an attenuator in - that's already stretching my budget severely, though.

I think you may have misunderstood me a bit - I'd like an amp that can do the hotrodded Marshall-type tones, but its main focus is a higher gain, tighter, more precise type sound.

Does anyone have any clips of that Engl rackhead?  I can't find any on rocksolidamps.com.

[Mavet]

Well, I don't know if there is a difference tonewise between the 850 & 860 as I never tried either.
go to http://www.rocksolidamps.com/
listen to the clips in the "soundbytes" section, and talk to derek (the store owner), he is like the Tim of metal amps  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

in my view you are looking for either an ENGL or Splawn, both are expensive  :(

[dave_mc]

I wish I could try that Engl.  It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for - Muhammed's got a killer tone.  It's Engl, so I'm assuming it's gonna have good cleans too (like the Powerball), but I'm concerned about one other thing...can it pull off a hotrodded Marshall-type crunch?  I've heard complaints about the Powerball that it can do cleans and ultra high-gain, but nothing in between.

Greatly looking forward to more input, and I really appreciate all the help given so far.  Lotta tolerance for a gear newbie :P

Something like a blackmore/savage/screamer would do the hot-rodded marshall better than something like a powerball, IMO- but obviously a hot-rodded marshall (or clone/similar style amp) would do the hot-rodded marshall tone better.

Though, I haven't tried any of the engls with EL34's- but they also tend to be the most expensive ones.

[Crazy_Joe]

The Ashdown is not much of a favourite on this forum, i remember when i asked about them and people complained of melting and heating up and generally not that good for the price.

The Peavey is always a good choice i think going on the amount of bands and players that use them, you can get great tones from it.

[dave_mc]

^ yeah, i mean I figured when I tried it it was alright for the price (at one stage the 40 watt combo was down to about £240), but if you can get a better amp (e.g. peavey 5150) for a similar price then go for it.

[Vindication]

^ yeah, i mean I figured when I tried it it was alright for the price (at one stage the 40 watt combo was down to about £240), but if you can get a better amp (e.g. peavey 5150) for a similar price then go for it.

So I figure my choices boil down to the 5150 and that Engl rackhead.

I'm really interested in the rackhead - I wasn't aware they were this cheap.  There are no clips of the 850 or 860 on rocksolidamps, I mentioned that already.  There are, however, some other poweramps and preamps.

[Mavet]

Awhile ago I was searching for soundclips of the 860 all over the net with no luck. info on that model is really scarce. from what I could gather it should sound like the missing link between the savage and blackmore heads (has same basic preamp design).I have no Idea about the 850 though.

[Vindication]

Awhile ago I was searching for soundclips of the 860 all over the net with no luck. info on that model is really scarce. from what I could gather it should sound like the missing link between the savage and blackmore heads (has same basic preamp design).I have no Idea about the 850 though.

That sounds freakin' sweet.

I'd really like to try before I buy - I think my parents would kill me otherwise.

However, if this is as good as it sounds...I'm really tempted :(

It's not even listed on the Engl site, let alone rocksolidamps.com...

EDIT: The 850 is exactly the same thing, but with lower wattage, right?

[Mavet]

I don't know if there is a difference, you can ask the seller.
I baught my savage 60 without hearing it (cut after endless net research), 'cause I live in a shitehole,  and don't regret it. love my amp.

[dave_mc]

if that's true that the rack Engl is a cross between a blackmore and savage, I suspect you'd like it for the tones you're after, but I can't say for certain because obviously personal preference and all, and also that guy's idea of a cross between a blackmore and savage mightn't be my idea, lol.

Another thing to consider is that if the two are a different wattage, they may use different power tubes (maybe not, but worth checking), and if they do, they'll probably sound quite a bit different.

bear in mind, I haven't tried any engl rack gear, I have no idea how good it is.