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Author Topic: Overdrive/Distortion  (Read 9543 times)

dave_mc

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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 08:37:28 PM »
Quote from: indysmith
to be honest mate if you're looking to show off the tone of your BKPs the first thing you need to get is a good valve amp. A solid state amp just can't show off the dynamics, harmonics, and clarity of BKPs in the way valves do.
Pedals should be thought of as luxuries to hone your tone and make tweaks to it, whereas an amp is vital, and will provide the basis of your sound.


I agree.

EDIT: cr@p, i see i'm behind as usual...

er, HBE big D, perhaps?

but i still say valve amp, lol.

plastercaster

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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 09:15:39 PM »
Quote from: gingataff
If you want to keep your amp why not get a valve overdrive/distortion pedal, maybe even splash out on a Radial Tonebone.

maybe I'm being thick but how would a tonebone help? unless i'm thinking of some other gizmo?
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BloodMountain

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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 09:25:27 PM »
the tonebone is a plexi voiced OD/DIST pedal if i am not mistaken.....
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indysmith

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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 09:42:03 PM »
there's a few tonebones
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BloodMountain

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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 09:49:47 PM »
Quote from: indysmith
there's a few tonebones

oh ok
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Doadman

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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 11:05:16 PM »
This is proving to be VERY frustrating. Let's give you some background. I bought my amp less than a year ago and I suspect that if I tell the wife that I now need to change it she may very well seperate me from parts of my anatomy that I would rather keep safe!! As I'm not that great a player I didn't want to spend a fortune and the Crate was only £169. For what it is, I still think it's very good value as it does have some good tones. I got something of 65W just in case I decided to gig with it later as I improved. With the benefit of hindsight that seems unlikely as who'd want a 42 year old playing for them, especially if he's still a gigging virgin. I tried a Valveking and really liked it but it was considerably more expensive and, as I've said, I didn't think I'd be able to drive the valve properly in the home. I did briefly consider the Laney 15w but at the time I wasn't sure if that would be a long term solution in case I got the chance to go gigging. It seemed to me that valve amps were only practical if you were good enough to justify the cost and played in large enough places to crank it up a bit. Perhaps I was wrong. I also looked at Roland's Cube amp but decided to steer clear of a modelling amp as everyone was telling me that stomp boxes would work better. Of course, now most of you guys seem to be saying that the stomp boxes won't work well on  my solid state amp; is it any wonder I'm getting fed up by the whole thing, especially as it's also being suggested that having saved hard to be able to afford these damn pups I'm now supposed to accept that I can't get the best out of them with my amp! In all honesty I never expected it to be such a problem; someone told me that BB King uses solid state amps and he seems to do OK.

So what is the answer? It seems to me that I have 3 basic choices:

1) Find some way of justifying changing the amp again, in which case, which one should I look at without breaking the bank and being able to play it properly in the home as well as keep in mind the outside chance of gigging in the future (remote I admit)?

2) Get effects pedals that will work well on a solid state amp and give me the sounds I'm looking for. Same question on this one: which ones?

3) Could I warm up the tone of my existing amp by connecting to the amp via a tube preamp and then some pedals? I heard a guy do that with the Roland Cube and it seemed to improve the tone considerably to my rather ignorant ear.

Twinfan

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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 11:13:15 PM »
Your learning the lessons we all do with gear - it takes AGES to find the setup that you like and suits you best.  Put it down to experience.

I'd go to a big music shop somewhere and try a load of amps/pedals to see what you might like.  Take your own guitar and amp along if you want to and try some stuff.  You might find a combination you like.

Doadman

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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2007, 01:02:04 AM »
I've just thought of a fourth possibility!

I was reading on an older thread where it was pointed out by someone that their Vox AD30VT sounded just like a Dual-Rectifier when that model was selected. I had stayed away from a modelling amp as I reasoned I could get those effects better on stomp boxes. It now occurs to me, would it work better if I used something like a Boss GT-8 or Pod XT Live? Surely these things rely on the amp having a rather neutral sound itself and that is more likely with a solid state amp, even with the valve emulating circuitry that people like Crate boast. These things appear quite expensive but if they offer me all the effects and tones I can use in one package then there is an economy of scale to be had here.

So, which of the 4 options I've mentioned would be best for me and why?

Pierre

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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2007, 01:09:59 AM »
Whichever works for you ;)

Take your axe, go into a shop and try all setups you can afford. That's the only way. We all have different ears.

Philly Q

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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2007, 01:43:45 AM »
Quote from: Doadman
With the benefit of hindsight that seems unlikely as who'd want a 42 year old playing for them, especially if he's still a gigging virgin.

Other 42 year olds?  Yeah, you'll probably never play at Wembley Stadium but so what?  I'm your age and even I haven't given up hope yet, and believe me I'm the world's biggest pessimist.  Probably a much worse player too.

I don't normally comment on amp threads, but I'm in a similar situation to you.  If you're stuck with playing at low volume at home, I don't think there's any point getting a decent valve amp - at this stage, anyway.  My Rivera combo just sits gathering dust.  I agree with your "Option 4" suggestion - get a modeller like a GT-8, a Pod XT, Vox Tonelab, one of the Digitech units, whatever.  You can get a huge variety of sounds which may not be "the real thing" but they're still damn good, and you'll learn a lot about different amp and FX sounds, and which work for you.  Plus most of the modelling units will interface with your computer for recording etc and you can use them with headphones (if you have to be really quiet like I do).

You can move on the pedalboard and valve amp when you join that band and/or find yourself a big soundproofed rehearsal space!
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Muzzzz

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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2007, 06:07:38 AM »
^ Send the Rivera this way :P !!
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Doadman

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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2007, 07:53:47 AM »
Quote
Doadman wrote:
With the benefit of hindsight that seems unlikely as who'd want a 42 year old playing for them, especially if he's still a gigging virgin.  

Other 42 year olds? Yeah, you'll probably never play at Wembley Stadium but so what? I'm your age and even I haven't given up hope yet, and believe me I'm the world's biggest pessimist. Probably a much worse player too.


Many thanks Philly Q, reading that gave me a smile early in the morning and it's nice to know I'm not alone  :D  As to the last bit, perhaps you should try listening to me play first  :lol:

I appreciate that Pierre is right and I do need to try things for myself but this thread has amply shown that there are major gaps in my knowledge and obviously I'd rather avoid making a costly mistake, hence my request for help from those who clearly know better than I do.  At the time I bought my amp I think the logic I was using was understandable but unfortunately nobody told me that alot of the pedals I may want would only work well with valve amps. I'm now wanting advice because each of the 4 options I've come up with seem to have potential problems.

1) I buy a valve amp instead of my Crate: A reasonably powerful valve amp that may still be able to be used in the home seems to be 15w but there is a very limited choice there. The Laney and Epi Valve Standard are the only ones that leap out at me but even with those I'm limited with channels and I may still not be able to drive the valves enough at home, in which case my situation is no better than it is now. I simply don't know as I've never owned a valve amp and when I tried the Valve King it was in a bloody great warehouse!

2) Get effects pedals that work well with solid state amps. Fine, but which ones? They all seem to prefer valve amps from what I can gather so I assume my choice would be severely limited.

3) Connect to my Crate through a valve preamp. Would that mean I'd have to connect the effects through the front of the amp so the sequence runs effects - valve preamp - amplifier? Would this setup even work? Would the pedals only work properly if they connect to a full valve amp? Would the result just be slightly warmed up cr@p? I simply don't know if this solution is even worth considering as I don't know enough about the way these things work.

4) Get something like a Boss GT8. This sounds to my ignorant brain and limited experience like an ideal solution but would this actually be better at getting the most out of my new pups? Someone told me the other day that the valve amp models on these things are useless unless you're recording straight into a computer as your own amp colours the sound too much. Is that true? As I have no immediate interest in recording myself that would make half of the unit useless. For what I'd use it for would this limitation make any real difference to my ear as I've never had one of these expensive amps anyway? They advertise these things as 'giggable' so I assume somebody uses them that way and would it only make a difference to experienced guitarists? When I tried my Crate in the shop and also the Valve King at twice the price my wife actually preferred the Crate!!

I'm ranting again so I'd better shut up :roll:  Seriously guys, I will try a couple of things out for myself but I really would appreciate the benefit of your experience and knowledge. Thanks.

Muzzzz

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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2007, 08:26:08 AM »
Quote from: Doadman

I appreciate that Pierre is right and I do need to try things for myself but this thread has amply shown that there are major gaps in my knowledge...


Ha! Nice pun :P
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Muzzzz

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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2007, 08:33:10 AM »
Sorry 'bout that :oops: , had to be said.

Anyway, I've got a GT-8 and it's improved the tone thru my solid-state amp by miles. I can recommend that option.

But what about a valve amp and a hotplate? I only recently found out what a hotplate does - you can turn your amp up to full and control your actual volume thru the hotplate, meaning that you can reach breaking point thru your valve amp at a much lower volume (That's right, isn't it?)
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Twinfan

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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2007, 09:05:18 AM »
Just a point about valve amps.  You don't have to be "pushing" them to get a good tone.  I have an Epiphone Valve Junior for practising with and the basic, low volume clean tone is really warm, 3D and musical.  You just can't get that with a solid state amp.  You only need to push it if you're going for true valve overdrive, but that's not important if you're using pedals.

My practice setup is the EVJ and a Marshall Guv'nor pedal.  £150 worth of gear and it's VERY Angus-like.