Cheap guitars - the future?

[Transcend]

That being said, I own one 'cheap' guitar, my Agile AL-2800..

i have the al2500 and im currently thinking about what pickups to stick it in so far im thinking nailbomb & stormy monday.  what do you have in yours??

[Muzzzz]

Back to the original topic, I think that cheap guitars are definately of a general higher standard than they used to, but the problem is that there has been a HUGE shift in the demographic targeted by retailers and producers, away from the experienced and discerning musician and towards the gay emo kid who wouldn't know quality if it slapped him in the face.

So needless to say, there are a lot more 'entry-level' guitars, and the pricier, higher quality guitars are a lot harder to come by.

[Ratrod]

It all comes down to value for money, doesn't it?

You can get some affordable guitars that are pretty good. I have tried (and owned) some upmarket stuff. USA Gibson, Fenders and PRS's are charging too much. They should be much better with those kinds of price tags.

The only pricey guitar that has impressed me so far is my Gretsch Power Jet.

[blue]

It all comes down to value for money, doesn't it?
 USA Gibson, Fenders and PRS's are charging too much. They should be much better with those kinds of price tags.

 

definately, and the thing is, in the UK, the prices work out at about double what people are charged in the states.  same with stuff like Mesa/Boogie.  a middle income kinda guy in, say, denver, can afford to have a shiney prs and mesa rig, while the same guy in, say, Bradford has to make do with a valvestate marshall and an LTD.

[nfe]

For the rest of us, we are striving for machines what don't get in the way of our artistic endeavours. In essence, we're looking for the "non guitar" guitar: the perfect conduit from imagination to raging half stack or whatever.

If you're able to do that with a cheap guitar, I say more power to you! I've yet to feel that way myself, though.

Then you can count me out of 'the rest of us' ;)

I often like to feel some character in the instrument I play. I like it to have a feel and a vibe, and even make me work against it to help me play a certain way. Theres a reason my 'blues guitar', a crawlered Epi LP, has 11-56 in E with high action, and its not just the tone!

my 2p

Agree 100%.

I want my guitars to have character. I have no interest at all in a guitar thats "invisible", to me, that sounds like my idea of the cheapest of the cheap instrument. Something that has no spark of life about it.

If you pick up a les paul you play it like a les paul, and if you pick up a tele you play it like a tele and I feel there's a certain charm in this, plus, it makes having several different guitars much more justifiable :lol:

[indysmith]

It all comes down to value for money, doesn't it?
 USA Gibson, Fenders and PRS's are charging too much. They should be much better with those kinds of price tags.

 

definately, and the thing is, in the UK, the prices work out at about double what people are charged in the states.  same with stuff like Mesa/Boogie.  a middle income kinda guy in, say, denver, can afford to have a shiney prs and mesa rig, while the same guy in, say, Bradford has to make do with a valvestate marshall and an LTD.

ah but if we wanted, say, a Feline, Gordon smith or Organic guitar with BKPs and a Marshall or a Matamp etc. it'd be a whole lot cheaper to us than it would over there too. It's all about where the stuff's made.

And also - i think that USA fender prices are quite reasonable at the moment.

[blue]

i totally get the point about different guitars' characters affecting the way you play them. however, many years ago i played an Ibanez Jem and was astounded!  the guitar was, as you say, invisible.  the point is that there is absolutely no barrier to your technique, and you're unlikely to get that from a cheap guitar.

the "characterful" guitars and the "invisible" guitars will obviously appeal to different kinds of players, and rarely doth the twain meet!

[Twinfan]

Good stuff guys - it's interesting to hear people have thoughts similar to my own.  Thought I was alone!

As en expansion on the original thread, and the sales of guitars in the lower end of the market being so high, is the following true (I'll use PRS as a rough example):

* PRS build a top spec instrument at high price - Custom 24 or Modern Eagle
* Well heeled players and professionals pay the top dollar
* Ordinary working people like the top spec but decide it's too much money
* Ordinary person buys one of the SE range and loves it
* (Possibly) Ordinary person gets famous/rich somehow and either buys top spec guitar or gets it free as an endorsement

So basically, the top spec guitar only exists to improve sales of the lower range?  For a big company this has to be the case?  Company expands on basis of cheaper guitar sales i.e. top spec sales are fairly constant once you get to a certain point?

[indysmith]

i think PRS have really sold out with the SE range. PRS as a company sucks; they keep destroying their image further for the sake of making money. Back in the 80s and early 90s PRS were seen as respectable. Since they've redesigned the guitars, giving them a huge unneeded heel, started endorsing cr@ppy nu-metal and emo players, cranked up the prices and released the SE series they have destroyed themselves. A lot of players nowadays refuse to play PRS despite loving the sound and feel just because they don't want to look like a prat. It also annoys me that people call them "top spec" and praise them as hard as they do like they're the best gutiar brand on the market today. They are quite easily not. People assume PRS guitars are handmade as they used to be a long time ago, but they aren't; they're almost completely machine made just like other mass production companies like fender and gibson. However; i do think they are the best production line guitar you can buy today; which is quite a feat, yet they are still overrated.

[Pierre]

Not for me.

I got my guitars for cheap, second hand, but they were expensive at the time. My Stagemaster would have been around 1,000 of today's pounds, the Charvel 4 around the same, the model 1 maybe around 750.

Often, cheaper guitars have dead timber. So it's all a matter of trying and trying... it's not easy.

I don't own any new guitars. And new stuff...only 2 pedals. I never bought any pickups new apart from a BKP back in the days. Ah and my 1spot and cables  :lol:

Note that sometimes even expensive guitars have dead woods too.

Whenever I see a Squier or especially Epiphones (new Epiphones I tried lately = yuck, no offence, but very shody) it needs at LEAST a new nut and fretwork. I do nut and electronics but that's at least an added 50 pounds to the price. Most guitars need that fair enough, but on a lot of higher priced stuff, the nut and electronics are fine.

[Twinfan]

Just to clarify "indysmith" - I meant top spec in reference to PRS' model range.  I wouldn't class myself as a PRS fan  ;)

[TwilightOdyssey]

That being said, I own one 'cheap' guitar, my Agile AL-2800..

i have the al2500 and im currently thinking about what pickups to stick it in so far im thinking nailbomb & stormy monday.  what do you have in yours??

Riff Raff bridge, Stormy Monday neck.

[blue]

It all comes down to value for money, doesn't it?
 USA Gibson, Fenders and PRS's are charging too much. They should be much better with those kinds of price tags.

 

definately, and the thing is, in the UK, the prices work out at about double what people are charged in the states.  same with stuff like Mesa/Boogie.  a middle income kinda guy in, say, denver, can afford to have a shiney prs and mesa rig, while the same guy in, say, Bradford has to make do with a valvestate marshall and an LTD.

ah but if we wanted, say, a Feline, Gordon smith or Organic guitar with BKPs and a Marshall or a Matamp etc. it'd be a whole lot cheaper to us than it would over there too. It's all about where the stuff's made.

And also - i think that USA fender prices are quite reasonable at the moment.

all true, except when you live in Ireland!  try finding a Matamp or Gordon Smith over here and you're usually in for a pretty futile search.  and the big names like Gibson and PRS cost even more over here than in England.  agree though that Fender street prices aren't so bad, if only there wasn't such a bewildering array of different models of the same guitar!  but that's a whole different subject

[Kilby]

I like twinfans view of the high end of PRS (I think the existance of the SE range shows where the money really is)

Since the 90s, (perhaps even the mid 80s) you have not had to look so hard to find something  that you could call good.

A friend that played on the White Stripes album Elephant used his 2nd hand SG copy made by Vintage, not a guitar to letch after but it did the job.

Even Fender caught on that there where price / quality disparity issues (which is more than gibson have ever managed). Fender, Ibanez, ESP, Gretch and PRS all do less expensive ranges, that are damn close to their 'premium models.

So why not stick to cheap ones, well pick up an 'cheap' model and play it, then pick up a mid range model. The vast majority of the time you will want the mid range.

Then pick up the high end one, and the reaction is usally, yeah it's better, but not enough to justify the cost. (Or in the case of certain companys you decide the cheap version is superior to the expensive one)

This leads to the question why buy an expensive model ?

Well sometimes it's becasue a suitable budget model dosnt exist (as in the case of my Rickenbacker 12 string).

Sometimes almost as good as, isn't enough, once you taste the real thing it's hard to go back.

Other times it's simply becasue you want to own something you have strived or waited for.

However it is sad that people buy badly built expensive guitars becasue they have a particular name on the headstock :(

Rob...

/rant on
BTW think about this :

I'm in the silly situation of wanting a quality Gibson DC Jr type guitar. I want a straight foreward but quality guitar, but the prices are stupid. It's dumb that I can buy a US built  strat with 'name' pickups or a Les Paul for less. And thats without looking at tokai or other far east makes

Not to just go Gibson bashing the Nik Huber Jr models are perhaps an even greater case in point http://www.nikhuber-guitars.de/2006_junior_intro.htm. Even Hamer charge a fortune for such a basic guitar (about 1400 quid)

/rant off

[PhilKing]

I am in the unusual situation of having some very valuable guitars while never having paid more than $2,500 for any of them (the $2,500 was for a 1953 Les Paul converted to 59 spec and it is the guitar on the cover of Atlantic Blues Guitar).

I also have quite a few cheaper guitars, and the biggest problem with the cheaper ones is the hardware.  As a case in point, I have recently bought a Raven West PRS Hollowbody copy, and have had to change all the electronics, the bridge, the tuners, and I will put a replacement nut on it too.  I am lucky in that I have all the tools to do this, and I can fix it myself, but if I had sent it to a luthier to do it would have been at least $250.  

I think the best value is the second hand market.  There are still some bargains around, though some of the prices seem to be going through the roof. In the States, Warmoth gives a good cheap way to get a classy instrument.  Gordon Smith's are great value, and then there are the custom makers.  If I was in the UK, I would definately have a guitar custom made (I have several that were made there when I was living there. Actually, I just realised that my semi-hollow neck through custom 5 string bass is my most expensive guitar due to the exchange rate, the picture below is when it was being sprayed).

Newer expensive factory guitars don't seem to have the soul of the older ones, and if they are all made by machine, then the woods, finishing and final tweaking are all that can make a difference.