Washburn WI200 Pro pickup question...

[Sailor Charon]

Not sure if this should be here or under pickups...
I'm thinking about the Washburn WI200 Pro - £360 is very tempting... :( but it has Seymour Duncan pickups. (Not saying there's anything wrong with them, but if they're really good, how cr@p is the guitar?)

The problem is that I know very little about them - It comes with a custom custom in the bridge and a '59 in the neck. Oh, and it's a basswood body.
Question. What would be the nearest BKP equivalent?  Partially for information, and partially in case I decide to swap them... [Assuming I yield to temptation and buy one, when I've saved enough]http://

[noodleplugerine]

Custom Custom?

Jesus christ - I feel sorry for the poor guitar!

And what's the point in finding equivalents to pickups which you're being forced to take?

Surely if paying for new pickups you should go for a sound you actually want :o

[Sailor Charon]

Custom Custom?

Jesus christ - I feel sorry for the poor guitar!

And what's the point in finding equivalents to pickups which you're being forced to take?

Surely if paying for new pickups you should go for a sound you actually want :o

Well, I'm partially curious as to what the ones fitted are like...
And I'm wary of picking something that would be overkill.  
I'm tempted to say Painkillers. But everytime I say Painkillers, I find out that, in the guitar I'm talking about it's too much.  I'd definitely be looking for an aggressive set, as I think I've got the quieter tones covered...

[Simon D]

Well, I'm partially curious as to what the ones fitted are like...
And I'm wary of picking something that would be overkill.

Firstly, I'll don my bullet-proof vest and riot helmet and state that I don't think there's anything wrong with Seymour Duncan pickups. I've got them in two of my guitars, a Yamaha Pacifica 812 and a Fender Lite Ash Tele (both came as stock), and I'm perfectly happy with them.

The '59 in the neck will give quite a mellow, old school tone, good for bluesy soloing - output will be around 7.5k. The Custom will have a fair bit more kick, (14.1k) but with a vintage-ish tone, according to SD's website.

As far as picking an aggressive set goes, I'd say if you've decided on something aggressive, then go for it. I did with my Warpigs, and have never been less then delighted. I can't wait to get them installed in my Warmoth, I really miss them. If it really worries you, then go for something powerful but versatile, so you can back it off a little if the mood takes you. For example, a Nailbomb is very versatile, as is the alnico Warpig. (Other high output BKPs are probably vertastile too, but I'm sticking to the ones I have personal experience of playing.)

I hope this helps you out.

[_tom_]

I personally dont like the Custom Custom that much. It sounds ok in my strat copy, but really weird and horrible in my Charvel..

[FELINEGUITARS]

There is sometimes a tendency on this board to slur pickups by other brands based on the fact that they are not BKPs rather than what they do or dont sound like.

Seymour Duncan make good pickups that maybe lack the character and uniqueness that we might enjoy with BKPs but are good pickups and have featured on MANY of the records in your collection.

Seymour Duncan himself knows more about pickups than anyone I know, and has always striven to make a good product. (yes I know him just as I do Tim, and he is a good bloke)

As far as the pricing goes - some of the major companies who machine wind pickups do special "off the record" pricing to major manufacturers who in turn can produce a lowish priced guitar with with otherwise high value pickups as a selling point.

So the guitar will be on a par with anything else in its price range pretty much, and you will get good pickups to boot. You may be happy enough to live with them for some time till you can chose to get BKPs if you want to take your tone somewhere else.

Two of my own personal guitars have Duncans and they sound great

The Custom Custom has an alnico 2 magnet and is supposed to have a fat buttery tone whilst having a lot of gain. The timber of the guitar makes a difference to the overall tone so in a Gibson it will sound fat and in a basswood or ash guitar  it will smooth out a zingy tone

I have one in an ash bodied guitar and it makes it sound less spiky than it otherwise would. i have it teamed up with a Alnico Pro2 in the neck

Closest BKP would maybe be a Crawler - althoughBKP will have a better tone and tighter  bass end too

The 59 is pretty much the same territory as a Mule
Duncan use a proper 42 gauge enamel coated wire just like BKP do
Only lacks the scatter-wind (Duncan doesn't believe in that process for humbuckers, although they do for their HANDWOUND single coils as opposed to the regular production ones)

You may find that you only chose to swap out the bridge pickup

[dave_mc]

^ i agree with jonathan/feline... on a £300 odd guitar, getting pickups that are even "decent" (and imo certain duncans are better than "decent", just BKP are "superb") is a plus. EDIT: also, having the duncans will probably mean you have more time to think about what you want to upgrade to (as they aren't so bad that you'll want to rip them out straight away, like some stock pickups), which is never a bad thing. I guess a final advantage is that when you contact tim, he'll know what the duncans sound like and so can give advice as to how to improve on that...

however, if you can find one, i'd be inclined to look for a washburn wi65pro, if you can still find one, that is (edit: they're discontinued, but not that long ago, they're basically the current wi66 pro, but without the fancy maple top). Not too long ago, they were going new for around £300, same pickups, but mahogany body and set neck, versus basswood and bolt-on neck on the wi200 (nothing wrong with basswood or bolt-on technology, just for that style of guitar i think mahogany and set-neck is better/more traditional)... and they were made in korea instead of indonesia for the wi200, which normally signifies slightly better construction quality...

would be worth a look, at least, i'd have thought.

[noodleplugerine]

I never said Seymour Duncan were bad pickups.

I said the Custom Custom was... >_>

[Philly Q]

£360 for a guitar with genuine Duncans seems a hell of a bargain, considering there are much more expensive guitars out there fitted with Duncan Designed.

I just wonder if there are maybe better guitars in the same price range with worse pickups - i.e. with more of the construction budget spent on timbers?  Assuming, that is, you do end up replacing the pickups.

Question. What would be the nearest BKP equivalent?  Partially for information, and partially in case I decide to swap them...

There are no direct equivalents due to the different magnets.  As has been said, the Mule's probably closest to the '59, but I always find the '59 neck a bit harsh, maybe due to the AV magnet.  The Mule (or Stormy Monday) are sweeter due to the AIV or AII magnets.

And the Custom Custom is a Custom with an AII instead of ceramic - so the nearest might be an AII Cold Sweat?  Crawler's about the same output, but hopefully would be tighter, brighter and growlier (I say "hopefully" as I'll be changing my plan to buy a Crawler if it sounds like a Custom Custom!  :?  :lol: )

[Sailor Charon]

Thanks folks. That's answered my questions pretty well. I was impressed by the reviews the wi200 received in Guitarist and Total Guitar (Here's a tip to avoid GAS, don't keep buying guitar magazines :) ) and figured that basswood might be better for a pair of Painkillers than mahogany would...
Also I liked the sound of the VCC tone control, even if nobody seems to agree what it does. Either it rolls between serial and parallel, or between one coil and both...
I'll look into the wi65 as well...Edit: And, as it comes with VCC and costs less...

[froglord]

Why's everyone so down on the Custom Custom? I think it's one of the best pickups Seymour Duncan make. It's not for those who like a lot of zing in their treble, but if you want "fat and buttery", as Feline says, it's great.

[dave_mc]

^ yeah, that's what i was saying about the wi65, it's about £60 less, with at least as good (IMO better) spec... of course, if you're planning on switching pickups later, that'd be worth keeping in mind for the wood choice, as you said yourself...

the x50pro is also going for £300 on gak... if you like twin cutaways. same pickups, mahogany/korean contruction.

i actually don't mind the custom custom, lol... but i'm still not convinced of the wisdom of alnico II in a high output pickup... EDIT: ^ garg, beaten to it!  :lol:

[froglord]

I actually don't mind the custom custom, lol... but i'm still not convinced of the wisdom of alnico II in a high output pickup...

Is that because you get more mids with higher output and therefore need Alnico V or ceramic to give the treble and bass a boost?

Thinking back, that LXGT was an uber-bright guitar in terms of wood - maple body, maple cap, mahogany neck and ebony fingerboard - so the Custom Custom was probably a perfect fit for it.

[dave_mc]

^ hehe, i was being much more simplistic than that, lol, i was just meaning alnico II tends to mush up under high gain, and a high output pickup tends to be used for high gain...

i actually thought it was quite bright (not super bright, though), but smooth with it- in a mahogany/mahogany guitar (the idol, and x50pro)...

[Kilby]

Why's everyone so down on the Custom Custom? I think it's one of the best pickups Seymour Duncan make. It's not for those who like a lot of zing in their treble, but if you want "fat and buttery", as Feline says, it's great.

The CCs where probably in the wrong guitars.

Having played 4 maple necked Eggles the ones with the Custom Custom in sounded perfect. However the ones with the Armstrongs and JBs sounded overly bright and needed something to tame the top end.

Personally I'd suggest trying the Washburn first, if it dosn't sound decent with Duncans in, then it's up to you to decide if a set of BKs will take it into the realms of sonic Nirvana. Unfortunitely you are the only one qualified to judge the tones.

Personally I have been a little dissapointed with basswood guitars in the past (though the pickups where only in the vintage hot ballpark), I would also suggest looking at the models Dave recomended as a backup plan.

Rob...