Alternative to Mules in LP?

[Neil F]

Hi all, I've got a set of unpotted Mules in my Les Paul which I do like but they don't have the presence or, dare I say it, clarity, of the Nailbombs I have in an Ibanez SA3120FM (another mahogany body, set neck guitar). I wouldn't say the Nailbombs are overly bright but they have an exceptional clarity that I don't get from the Mules. Maybe I have a "dark" LP?

Is there another set of pickups I could try in the LP that might give me that airyness and clarity I'm looking for whilst still sounding like a LP? I did try a bridge Crawler before the Mule that I found too mid-orientated (I preferred the more "balanced" tone of the Mule) but do you think one of the others (RY, Riff Raff, Emerald, etc.) might be what I'm looking for? Don't get me wrong - I do like the Mules but the Nailbombs have made me wonder if there might be something else that would work even better!

Thanks.

[PhilKing]

Have you got AII Mules?  They are more mellow sounding I find.  Depending on how much output you want, I really like the new PG set or a Riff Raff/Stormy Monday set, or for old Thin Lizzy and Free, an Emerald/AIV Mule set.  The sound of all of these sets gives great classic rock and excellent blues tones with no lack of clarity at all

[hunter]

How do those two guitars compare when you strum them unplugged? Are they alike?

Usually, if the sound is lacking, starting at the beginning of the chain is no mistake.

There are ways to bring dull sounding guitars, experimenting with string makes or gauges, trying steel vs. nickel, trying any gauge from 009 - 011, try an aluminium tailpiece, etc, can do a lot if that's the issue.

[Fourth Feline]

Hi Neil,

When I had my potted Alinico II Stormy Mondays in a Les Paul, they gave me airyness, clarity and a very even frequency response across the tonal range. The sound at lower volumes was almost like an acoustic / semi  acoustic guitar.  

The clarity was so evident compared to the existing AV Gibson 490r / 498T pickups, that a friend of mine complained that they would  make him "have to practice more".

I was so impressed with the SMs, that I then got a set of potted AIV Mules for the Les Paul - and transfered the SMs to an S.G.

My conclusion was that the weightier midrange of the Mules blended into the already emphasised mid range of the heavy Les paul, which suited my purposes - especially as I had fitted an out of phase switch to one pickup for a pseudo Peter Green sound.

The Stormy Monday pickups kept their own voice in the Les Paul - retaining their characteristic 'air' despite the heavy wood. This seemed unusual for such a relatively low output  pickup.

My only concern is that compared to a very high out put pickup like the 'Nailbomb' - they may sound a bit too retro / mellow , and lacking 'punch' for you in comparison. Having said that, they did have enough 'spank' for Soul lines.

If I had to start again, I would probably have got a set of Peter Green wired Stormy Mondays for the Les Paul, and a pair of Riff Raffs or some sort of monster heavy pickup  for the S.G.

F.F.

[HTH AMPS]

Your LP may have 300k pots which would kill some of the top end clarity from your pickups.  What year is your LP?  Do you have a DMM to check the pots?

If they're already 500k then I would suggest you may like A5 magnets in your Mules.

 :twisted:

[TwilightOdyssey]

Have you got AII Mules?  They are more mellow sounding I find.  Depending on how much output you want, I really like the new PG set or a Riff Raff/Stormy Monday set, or for old Thin Lizzy and Free, an Emerald/AIV Mule set.  The sound of all of these sets gives great classic rock and excellent blues tones with no lack of clarity at all

I think that the Riff Raff/Stormy Monday set will yield the old Thin Lizzy tones, as well, but maybe not the Free. Would a Riff Raff in parallel do it?

[Fourth Feline]

Your LP may have 300k pots which would kill some of the top end clarity from your pickups.  What year is your LP?  Do you have a DMM to check the pots?

If they're already 500k then I would suggest you may like A5 magnets in your Mules.

 :twisted:

Good point there !

I forgot to mention that when I fitted BKPs to my Gibsons - I also replaced the stock 300K pots and tiny ceramic disk capacitors with 500K CTS pots and Sprauge 'orange drop' polyester 0.22 microfarad caps. That alone gave more headroom and clarity to even the Gibson pickups and allowed the much higher quality BKPs to really shine  :D

F.F.

[Neil F]

Thanks for all the comments. I've tried strumming both guitars unplugged and there isn't a huge difference really. The LP is a 1998 Classic and I do have a multimeter so I can check out the pots - apologies for asking a stupid question but where to I need to make the measurement?

Just to explain a little further, I find the difference I'm talking about most noticeable when I back off the volume on the guitar. The Nailbombs (both of them) sound incredibly clear - almost acoustic-like (similar to what an earlier poster was saying about their A2 SMs). When I back off the volume on the LP I don't get that same "quality", if I can put it that way. The sound, whilst nice enough, just doesn't have that same clarity and sparkle.  That's not to say I don't want a big overdriven sound too though. With the Nailbombs I seem to be able to have both, and that's what I want in my LP too (but sounding like a LP not like an Ibanez with Nailbombs!).

I'd forgotten about the SM! The PG set sounds interesting too though I don't know a great deal about his tone. Is there a recording I could access online that gives a good representation of his tone? Could I still get a decent overdriven sound with that set?

The other suggestions (A5 Mule, Emerald, Riff Raff, etc) all sound great too though...

Sorry for all the questions. Any other comments and suggestions welcome!

[_tom_]

You might need to install a capacitor over lugs 1 and 2 on the volume pot which should allow more treble to come through when the volume is turned down.

[Fourth Feline]

To get the value of  your volume / tone pots, measure between the out side two lugs. The treble bleed capacitor suggested by the previous poster is ( I believe ) a 0.01 microfarad which is wired between the tag carrying the live  wire from the pickup and the centre tag, which then carries the signal onto the tone controls e.t.c

When asked what Stormy Mondays sound like in a Les Paul, and /or what the 'Peter Green' tone is like I generally refer folks to this Snowy White video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBXTNAdvGKI

The chordal  intro sounds very Stormy Monday, and his single note fills prior to the solo have a bit of that  'nasal' quality I associate with the early  Peter Green sound.

Snowy now has a switch built into his treble tone control to switch the 'nasal' tone on and off at will when both pickups are on together, or if left permanently on - you can bring it in and out, by varying the volume controls on the pickups,  the 'nasal' effect occurring when both pickups are full on and therefore phase cancelling each other the most.  Of course Tim now does the proper version requiring no wiring mods as an alternative to the standard Stormy Monday.

On this video Snowy has the original Gibson (1957 ? ) pickups in, but for me it's the closest you can get to a pseudo Stormy Monday  demo .  

Cheers !

F.F.

[Neil F]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Looks like I need to check the pots and maybe do some tweaking but, most frustratingly, I have to go away for a couple of days with work - in about half an hour! So, the multimeter examination that I'm looking forward to carrying out will just have to wait.

I'll post my findings later in the week.

Thanks again.

PS Great Snowy White video!

[HTH AMPS]

bear in mind you will need to desolder the 'hot' pickup connection from the volume pot otherwise all you'll be reading is the pickup's resistence and not the pot value.

 :twisted:

[Ratrod]

I can only agree with what's been said here.

I wouldn't go for Crawlers in this case.

Crawlers are darker, more midrange focussed and more compressed than Mules. Airy-ness is not the first that comes to mind with Crawlers.

[JamesHealey]

VHII's.. all the way.

[Neil F]

Ok, I finally got some time to play around with my soldering iron and multimeter and it looks like I have got 300k pots so I'll try replacing them and the caps as suggested. I'm sure the Mules should sound good so I'll see whether these tweaks will do the trick before I consider changing them for something else.

Thanks for the the advice!