Author Topic: Is analog recording really that better than digital? (Read 4898 times)

wintersun · « **on:** September 21, 2007, 12:14:26 AM »

Hi guys! I have a question.

I usualy do my recordings with Guitar rig (and with external distortions, so I only use the box simulators), but some people believe that this digital simulation recording is not as good as analog, with real amps. Some say that they can't get that warm sound, some say it's not tight enough, and so on.

I'd like to hear an OBJECTIVE opinion from people who really tried BOTH, not the ones who sympathize one side more than other just because he (or she?? :D) believes that simulated amp can not sound like the real thing.

Maybe its also worth to note that I'm into heavy metal, and I use lots of distortion.

Also you can go here and check my recordings with Guitar rig and tell me is it really that unrealistic:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9220
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9196

And yes, I also know that the Guitar rig is not the best software there is (Line 6 is probably much better), but thats not the point right now. I just wanna know is real amp really that better for recording, or is the simulated amp recording only underrated.

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2007, 12:38:27 AM »

I play metal mostly and have tried both and can say from my experience that analog is so much better to my ears. You can't beat a good valve amp distortion imo, you just don't get the same tonal characteristics with digital recording.
I think with cleaner sounds it's much easier to get a good quality tone and i would use either for recording, but when you get into high gain territory it really doesn't sound great to my ears and gets harder to find a usable tone.
I had a Line 6 toneport for Xmas last year and was happy with it for about 5 minutes and then missed my real amp sound and wished i could record with that, so i sold the toneport and bought a mic and i'm much more happier with recording with my proper amp.

Though i have heard some good tones for digital high gain stuff, it is achievable, but the majority of it isn't too good.

Your tone on guitar rig isn't as bad as i expected it to be, the 1st clip sounded more realistic than the 2nd clip. I still wouldn't use it unless it was a last resort, not blasting your clips, they are awesome, it's just my personal preference that i would rather use a proper amp.

blue · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2007, 12:50:45 AM »

as Joe says, digital can sound fine. modelled amp sounds tend to sound and feel like recordings rather than an actual amp in the room with you. that is, if you use the Van Halen pre-set on a Pod XT, it sounds like the cd, only your fingers are controlling it, whilst if you got to actually play through Eddie's Plexi, standing in front of it with your guitar, it would sound and feel completely different. but if you then listened back to recordings of both performances, it might be hard to tell the difference!

i think for demo recording and quiet practice, digital modelling is pretty hard to beat. you can get a good, usable sound without too much hassle and without annoying the neighbours. plugging your guitar into a little box to make a demo is a lot easier and more convenient than trying to mic up and accurately reproduce a cooking valve amp!

playing with a band is a different matter. at volume the way your guitar interacts with a loud amp is a very organic thing, and there's yet to be a digital box that can recreate that. they can sound good live, and your average audience is never gonna know the difference, but you will!

kevincurtis · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2007, 08:15:54 AM »

Computer Music has an article covering exactly this topic this month, recording the same track using 3 different setups real and digital. I havent listend to it yet, but the guitarists comments were that you could tell the difference in a lot of ways, but once it was all mixed down and played on a normal stereo system they became harder to distinguish and hey were hard pressed to justify the effort of micing up the amps and the cost of the gear they used :)

When I used my J station for recording a few years the sounds were decent and the finished recording stood up well, until i added a 'real' guitar in and then i could really hear the difference - but for demo work and convenience it stood up well. Sticking a mic in front of an amp doesn't necessarily lead to sonic nirvana of coure, it's pretty hard to get a good sound (persoannly I've never managed to get the sound I've wanted, but that's probably just me!). Have a listen to some clips here and how they were recorded.. some guys here can really get good mic'd sounds, others sound a bit thin/woolly etc . and then there are clips through things like the vox tonelab ...listen for youself and see what you hink :)

Have fun trying things out - that's the best bit :)

Kevin

38thBeatle · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2007, 09:21:09 AM »

There is no doubt that the huge leaps forward in recording technology have brought some real advantages. From my experience, however, I prefer the analogue sounds.I think that a crude cross between the two is good.I recorded some stuff a while back in a studio that had digital equipment.We ended up with a great clear accurate recording that sounded pretty good and then recorded onto an old 4 track tape recorder and then produced masters-purely as an exercise. On a blind listen back with none of use knowing which version we'd be hearing, we all picked the "analogue" version-the differences were, to me, hard to put into words but words like "warmer" were being bandied around. By the time it ended up on someones car cd however, the differences were not so marked.Not very scientific.

Nadz1lla · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2007, 09:31:14 AM »

Aye, I use a Pod XT, and the sound is amazing. But it will never beat a proper, loud valve amp.

indysmith · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2007, 11:34:00 AM »

in my experience, i feel a few digital modelling systems have very clearly captured the "sound" of the mystic valve amp, but not the "feel". I can always tell the difference between a digital model and the real thing whist playing - i think we all can, but as people have said before, once it's all mixed down it's hard to distinguish sometimes. Digital models can get you 99% of the way there, but there is no substitute for the real thing - not because people tell you so, but because if you get out there and try the real gear yu get so much more out of it

Elliot · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2007, 12:25:28 PM »

In mix down, especially MP3 its virtually impossible to tell, although digital modellers do have more of a 'Nintendo' quality in higher band .wav format. Live - even the best modeller amp (like the Vetta) cannot compete.

All in all I have been very impressed with the Line 6 and the Vox modellers i've heard.

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2007, 12:54:13 PM »

Digital modeling & solid state amps miss the midrange crunch, that's what they can't get right.

For recording, I think you've got to factor in that tape compresses and softens things ever so slightly in a way that is very pleasing to the ear. Digital pretty much reproduces what you put in 100%. IMO, what we like about analogue is that colouration you get.

The hardest thing for modeling amps to get right is those crunch tones - they're really good at dead clean or total filth, but nothing inbetween.

What you tend to find is that many professional studios will use both 2" tape AND Protools for recording. Basic tracks will be laid down to tape then transferred to Protools for editing - it's gives you lots of options that way.

:twisted:

Neemo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2007, 01:10:00 PM »

Digital modelling is making some serious headway and line 6 seems to be dominating the market. However, the technology is dominated by Fractal Audio: http://www.fractalaudio.com/

jt · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2007, 02:32:18 PM »

:D This is a very interesting thread well done !!

The real problem is simply this. If you want to get a killer sound by using a valve amp, you really need to be able to wind the volume up quite a bit in order to make the tone controls on the amp [tubes ] to really work well. Those of us that used Marshalls all those years ago remember that unless you could wind the buggers up there tone valves wouldn`t open up fully making little or slight adjustments useless ! :roll:

Point 2 you will need not only some great recording gear & some bloody good mics but you`ll also need to have some experience in depth to get the best out of the situation. Alternativly just plug in your PodXt & hey presto !

Do you have a room in an area were you can open up your valve amp without driving your neighbours/family memebers insane ?

Can you keep playing your guitar long enough to be able to learn how to record them well enough again without driving other people nuts ?

I read an interview with Dave Mustaine from
Megadeath recently were he admitted that to get the best results when recording his guitar he`d learnt to "back the gain off" so the amp gave a better crunch sound to it. This is experience. you`ll need to do a lot of good research to find these little gems of info inorder to make things easier & quicker for you when recording. There`s loads of experience here on this forum so dont be afraid to ask. Oh & yes it`s fare to say that good mics are much cheaper & valve amps are also much more able to sound better at lower volumes, but you`ll still need to understand how to use them to get the best out of the situation. And for the record over the last 20yrs producers used Palmer units or attenuaters to help get alot of those killer guitar sounds we`ve all been hearing for years including Mettallica, Megadeath etc etc. These units have speaker emulated outputs as well as enabling valve amps to be opend up so making mic`ing easier.

:D 8)

Bird · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:32:42 PM »

I prefer tubes as well. After using a Pod for a couple years I thought it was great, until one day I plugged my amp back in and the difference was stunning. However as someone mentioned once it's mixed it can be tough to tell.

I'm looking forward to hearing the new Line6/Bogner amp the Spider Valve. I wonder if it will have that "warmth" people are looking for.

wintersun · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:40:05 PM »

Thank you all for replying! :D

And jt, could you please explain this a little bit more? What are those Palmer units?

Quote from: jt

And for the record over the last 20yrs producers used Palmer units or attenuaters to help get alot of those killer guitar sounds we`ve all been hearing for years including Mettallica, Megadeath etc etc. These units have speaker emulated outputs as well as enabling valve amps to be opend up so making mic`ing easier.

:D 8)

wintersun · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2007, 03:47:14 PM »

And yes, what about T.C. electronic g-force??

http://www.tcelectronic.com/G-Force

jt · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2007, 04:01:01 PM »

:D Attenuaters are basically a unit that sits between your amp & speakers. You plug a lead from the speaker out at the back of your amp into the attenuater. You then plug a lead from the attenuater to your speaker. This enables you to turn up the volume on your amp but the attenuater has a volume control which means you can reduce the volume level into the speaker but your able to open up the amp to full volume. Good ones also have speaker emulated outputs that enable you to plug a lead from the attenuater into a mixing desk for live or recording studio & record the sound of your amp straight onto disc/tape. Thats the best way i can describe them in laymans terms.

:D 8)