Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Muzzzz on July 17, 2008, 01:54:53 PM
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Not to be negative, and I'm not attempting to start an angry rant either... but why do people like them?
I'm not trying to make a point or anything, but I think there may be something I'm missing which explains why I don't see anything in them. Opinions welcome.
(ps, I didn't want to start a negative topic but it's been bugging me)
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The same reason I like any other artist that I do- they make good music.
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Based on the first album which i got when it came out I loved them because they had a combination of direct in your face political punk, funk rythym and hardcore punk riffage on the guitar with no 'i'll shred a solo to show how good I am wonk.
I don't quite understand why Tom Morello is kiddies guitar hero though.
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Based on the first album which i got when it came out I loved them because they had a combination of direct in your face political punk, funk rythym and hardcore punk riffage on the guitar with no 'i'll shred a solo to show how good I am wonk.
I don't quite understand why Tom Morello is kiddies guitar hero though.
Yeah that description sounds about right :) I think Morello is considered a guitar hero by some because he's managed to get some really odd and original sounds out of a guitar that fit in really well with the hip hop kinda style that RATM had.
btw has anyone heard Zacks new stuff? Theres a track up on the myspace, sounds pretty good to me - www.myspace.com/onedayasalion
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Because they're AWESOME!!! The vox are great, the lyrics are great, ALL the instrumentation is great. They're just a really good band!
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Because they make kickass songs and the Tom Morello makes funny noises with his guitar.
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RATM makes you jump and move wildly, scream and makes you want to throw over the government.
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I loved and still love the first album, it couldn't be any better. Even if you strip away the vocals and the funny guitar noises, you're still left with some bloody awesome old-fashioned riff rock.
Wasn't so keen on the subsequent albums, I found Zack and his constant whining about Leonard Peltier and Mumia Abu-Jamal increasingly irritating.
Oh, and I might as well say now that I love Audioslave, just in case the discussion goes in that direction.
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Based on the first album which i got when it came out I loved them because they had a combination of direct in your face political punk, funk rythym and hardcore punk riffage on the guitar with no 'i'll shred a solo to show how good I am wonk.
thats it for me too... plus i was about 14 when that album came out and i have some found memories of the time.
i played that album to some students who have never heard of them today and i could see it was doing exactly what radrod says... i am glad its not just me!!
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I loved and still love the first album, it couldn't be any better. Even if you strip away the vocals and the funny guitar noises, you're still left with some bloody awesome old-fashioned riff rock.
Wasn't so keen on the subsequent albums, I found Zack and his constant whining about Leonard Peltier and Mumia Abu-Jamal increasingly irritating.
Oh, and I might as well say now that I love Audioslave, just in case the discussion goes in that direction.
+1 I love RATM and Audioslave. Always find myself headbanging inadvertently when listening to them :twisted:
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I LOVE Audioslave and RATM.
SUPERB bands.
What makes RATM so good? Incredible lyrics, great musicianship allround - And some of the best riffs ever written.
The first song I ever learnt on guitar was Bombtrack, and even today I still play it regularly - They're THAT MUCH FUN to play.
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I absoluely loathe them. They've never done anything for me musically, I just find it rather bland and politically they make me absolutey livid, so even if I liked them musically the faux-commie money grabbers would still get all my bile and hatred. :lol:
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I also can't understand it. I prefer singers over vocalists, and I also don't understand why Morello is considered a guitar hero to ickle'uns
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I love em. Not overly flashy or anything, but they still somehow come up with an extremely distinctive style, wrote consistently awesome riffs, and had (usually) relevant lyrics as well. They are the soundtrack to a revolution that unfortunately hasn't happened yet.
Audioslave though - they sucked, bad.
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I love RATM. That's my simple, personal opinion.
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" Pure Energy "
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They are the soundtrack to a revolution that unfortunately hasn't happened yet.
Is that the revolution when all the left-wing bands sign to multinationals and reform for millions upon millions of pounds? Cause that one's gonne be awesome :lol: I can't wait to see Crass on Warner Brothers.
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I also can't understand it. I prefer singers over vocalists, and I also don't understand why Morello is considered a guitar hero to ickle'uns
Because he's written probably the most top riffs of any guitarist imo. When it comes to riff writing, Morello is top imo. Bombtrack, Killing in the Name, Wake up, Know your Enemy, Fistful of Steel, Guerilla Radio, all include some of the best ever riffs imo.
And I've probably forgotten many others.
The first Rage album is easily within my top 3 albums ever.
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I think they are Marmite.
Some people love em and some people hate them - not much middle ground!
I think their early appeal was summed up by:
""f**k you - I wont do what you tell me" - which usually meant homework, cleaning up your room or whatever drama faced teenagers circa 1993/4
I saw them live in 97 - wasn't moved by them
Supporting KISS was an odd billing for sure.
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I was never a fan of either Rage Against the Machine or Audioslave.
I got dragged to an Audioslave gig a few years ago and still think they were the best band I've seen live.
Still don't really like Rage Against the Machine though
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Trouble with Audioslave is that their most recent 2 albums are a bit cr@p. The first one is great bar a couple of songs though :) If you dont like Cochise you probably shouldnt be into rock music at all :P
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I saw them last in October at the Voodoo fest, they seemed to have a bit less of that raw dangerous edge up until they broke up, but did turn into a more mature band, with that energy still there. I know Morello decided to reform the band after spending some time in New Orleans, and doing some of his solo work around the city. That night he was on fire with that guitar, the Man had a meaning, what a perfect setting for this band, a half destroyed city that did not get the help it needed by its own goverment. No other band seemed more appropiate than RATM. And when everybody sang Killing in the Name all middle fingers up in the air it was not about some stupid homework, it was real, just look around. I get to watch NIN, and REM this year... They will have something to say too....!
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I only really "got" the first album, which is up there in my top 10 albums for sure. The later stuff just doesn't do it for me. That said, I think Audioslave are pretty decent. I do prefer my stuff considerably heavier, in general, but there's some really good musicianship in there, which is why I like them.
Roo
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^What about toms teles, roo? :P
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Just my opinion, but I cant really agree on most of what's been said...
I can't help but think that they are attempting to sell politics... do they really think that meaningful political change will come by empowering 14-year-olds who couldn't have the slightest idea about politics to overthrow the government? Let's be realistic, that would TOTALLY $%&# up the world. The political message really seems like more of a selling point to appeal to teen angst. Which I disagree with.
I also can't really see what's so great about Morello's riffs either... they seem a little derivative and pretty rarely ever break away from a pentatonic scale. And I would argue that his solos, infact, ARE wanky (see Know Your Enemy)
But yes, their lyrics are truly amazing. Brilliantly thought out with a superb and poignant political message. Here is a superb example:
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
$%&# you, I won't do what you tell me!
Mother$%&#er!
Uggh!
:lol: I'm sorry, now i'm taking the piss, but each to his own I spose.
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I dont tend to really pay much attention to the lyrics or take them seriously. Dont give a shite about their political views I just like the music :)
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I also can't really see what's so great about Morello's riffs either... they seem a little derivative and pretty rarely ever break away from a pentatonic scale.
Exactly, that's why they're so great. Keep it simple!! :)
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'I can't help but think that they are attempting to sell politics'
What is your frame of reference? We are talking late 80s early 90s political punk here. Conflict, Crass, The Dead Kennedy's, the New York Hardcore scene were all about direct politics, often in a very preachy way - that was the very point of the music. No subtlety, just in your face polemic. OK most of those bands were on small homegrown labels, but that is the genre of music, just as Death Metal bands go on about maggots eating undead corpses.
I must agree that it gets a bit tiring to have some knob telling you to WAKE UP when he is signed to a huge label
And the pentatonic scale works great for that type of music - it is just direct I-IV-V power chords after all, not widdly lydian stuff.
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One thing I've always wanted Tom Morello to explain - I don't know if anyone's ever read an interview where he's mentioned it:
What the hell did he mean by "Arm The Homeless"?? :?
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One thing I've always wanted Tom Morello to explain - I don't know if anyone's ever read an interview where he's mentioned it:
What the hell did he mean by "Arm The Homeless"?? :?
I think it was in fact a psuedo-Spoonerism, and should have read "Home the armless".
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One thing I've always wanted Tom Morello to explain - I don't know if anyone's ever read an interview where he's mentioned it:
What the hell did he mean by "Arm The Homeless"?? :?
I think it was in fact a psuedo-Spoonerism, and should have read "Home the armless".
bahaha i think "Giving alms to the homeless" is maybe what he was getting at
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One thing I've always wanted Tom Morello to explain - I don't know if anyone's ever read an interview where he's mentioned it:
What the hell did he mean by "Arm The Homeless"?? :?
I think it was in fact a psuedo-Spoonerism, and should have read "Home the armless".
:lol: :lol:
I guess the armless deserve homing. I have less sympathy for the legless.
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One thing I've always wanted Tom Morello to explain - I don't know if anyone's ever read an interview where he's mentioned it:
What the hell did he mean by "Arm The Homeless"?? :?
I think it was in fact a psuedo-Spoonerism, and should have read "Home the armless".
Prize winning :D :D
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What he meant was conscript the homeless into the Army and put them on the frontline in Afghanistan, so they cease to be a problem to decent hardworking taxpayers. See Tom Morello is a crypto-neo-con just in RATM for the $$$$$$
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The whole political angle to them turns me right off. I can't abide them.
A bit like System Of A Down.
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The whole political angle to them turns me right off. I can't abide them.
A bit like System Of A Down.
I must admit I often don't pay any attention to lyrics. It took me 30 years to realise A Passage to Bangkok is a drugs song. :oops:
Having said that, it's almost impossible to ignore the lyrics on RATM songs. With SOAD, I can't understand any of the words anyway, so it doesn't spoil my enjoyment. :wink:
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This is truly a great forum, each one of you!!. Intelligent bunch with a great sense of humor!!!
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Having said that, it's almost impossible to ignore the lyrics on RATM songs. With SOAD, I can't understand any of the words anyway, so it doesn't spoil my enjoyment
. +1 :lol:
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I can't help but think that they are attempting to sell politics... do they really think that meaningful political change will come by empowering 14-year-olds who couldn't have the slightest idea about politics to overthrow the government? Let's be realistic, that would TOTALLY $%&# up the world. The political message really seems like more of a selling point to appeal to teen angst. Which I disagree with.
It seems to me you are placing too much emphasis on the lyrics and meaning of the songs. Who cares if RATM don't really have a clue about the intricacies of government and politics- it's not like they're running for office or anything! I think their appeal is more to do with the incessant screaming and loud music. :D Sometimes nothing beats a good angry protest song, you know? :wink:
I also can't really see what's so great about Morello's riffs either... they seem a little derivative and pretty rarely ever break away from a pentatonic scale. And I would argue that his solos, infact, ARE wanky (see Know Your Enemy)
But yes, their lyrics are truly amazing. Brilliantly thought out with a superb and poignant political message. Here is a superb example:
I wouldn't say his riffs are in any way derivative- they have a pretty distinguishable sound in fact. And the fact that he sticks to the pentatonic seems a pretty meaningless issue to me- if it sounds good I don't care how basic it is!
We may have to just disagree on the solos, as I don't think his are anyway near the likes of the popular shredders out there. Mostly, (including Know Your Enemy) they are catchy, memorable and interesting (to me, anyway!) :)
And some of the lyrics ARE pretty good, but everyone likes a bit of mindless swearing every now and then. :D
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Transmission third world war third round
A decade of the weapon of sound above ground
No shelter if you're lookin' for shade
I lick shots at the brutal charade
As the polls close like a casket
On truth devoured
A Silent play in the shadow of power
A spectacle monopolized
The camera's eyes on choice disguised
Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?
Yes a spectacle monopolized
They hold the reins and stole your eyes
Or the fistagons
The bullets and bombs
Who stuff the banks
Who staff the party ranks
More for Gore or the son of a drug lord
None of the above $%&# it cut the cord
Ace lyrics imo. I love the way he bounces the rhythm in his vox.
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Who cares if RATM don't really have a clue about the intricacies of government and politics- it's not like they're running for office or anything!
I should think Morello has a pretty good understanding of politics, at least in a theoretical sense - he has a degree in Political Science from Harvard! :)
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I can't help but think that they are attempting to sell politics... do they really think that meaningful political change will come by empowering 14-year-olds who couldn't have the slightest idea about politics to overthrow the government? Let's be realistic, that would TOTALLY $%&# up the world. The political message really seems like more of a selling point to appeal to teen angst. Which I disagree with.
It seems to me you are placing too much emphasis on the lyrics and meaning of the songs. Who cares if RATM don't really have a clue about the intricacies of government and politics- it's not like they're running for office or anything! I think their appeal is more to do with the incessant screaming and loud music. :D Sometimes nothing beats a good angry protest song, you know? :wink:
I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.
If your music is political, then the politics comes first, otherwise everyone would think Skrewdriver were an awesome oi band as opposed to nazi imbeciles.
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everyone likes a bit of mindless swearing every now and then. :D
No, I really don't!really pisses me off. In the context of a song, it kinda shows to me that they couldn't be bothered to think of a real word to express how they feel. Not explicitly complaining about RATM, just my opinion :P
Noodle, I see exactly where you are coming from, and its notable that the end of each sentence of your response was "IMO"; I just don't agree, its not my thing, and I bet you don't like what I like :P
I don't believe he has written top riffs, and his 'tricks' (that non guitarring mates have sent me) aren't impressive or show that much more that hasn't been done.
anyway... not shiteeting on them, just adding another voice to the people who don't like, so its not an overpowering THEY ARE GODZ WOWZ-OMG-BBQ :P
edit: lol... shiteting
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I don't see why RATM are hypocrits?
They join a big label so that they can promote their message, and yes they make money, but I heard that they donated all their profit from their tours to a mexican militia or something.
I could be wrong though.
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I don't see why RATM are hypocrits?
They join a big label so that they can promote their message, and yes they make money, but I heard that they donated all their profit from their tours to a mexican militia or something.
I could be wrong though.
Sorry, but "We are anti-global conglomerates!!!" and being signed to one of the globes biggest is hypocritical. Being hard line lefties and millionaires also does not compute. Pulling out of Download Festival last minute because of a bigger offer from Leeds/Reading?
Now, I do admittedly sit EXTREMELY far to the left, but I'm very black and white on these things.
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I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.
What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?
Of course it does no good to your cause if the way you live contradicts your message, but that's beside my point, which is that the music can be enjoyed regardless of the lyrical content.
If your music is political, then the politics comes first
Why? Maybe to YOU it does, but not necessarily for everyone else. Music is rhythm and pitch, not literature. Personally I enjoy everything about RATM, (lyrics included) but that doesn't mean I agree with every, or even any of the messages in the songs.
Will:
No, I really don't!really pisses me off. In the context of a song, it kinda shows to me that they couldn't be bothered to think of a real word to express how they feel.
Read Steven Pinker's new book. There is a whole section on how swearing evokes emotion more powerfully than words that are less offensive. :) :wink:
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I must admit I often don't pay any attention to lyrics. It took me 30 years to realise A Passage to Bangkok is a drugs song. :oops:
Cheers Philly - I always thought it was a song about going on holiday :roll:
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I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.
What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?
Just to answer this point, as the others are obviously down to opinion, I meant that RATM have aways used their politics (I say "their", I mean the politics they pretend to adhere to) as a marketing tool, which it should never, ever be. If you are singing about politics you should be doing so because it's something you truly believe and feel is important enough to push. Not because it'll get angsty teens that haven't formed any political opinions of their own yet but know that their middle and upper class parents definately don't agree to buy your records.
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I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.
What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?
Just to answer this point, as the others are obviously down to opinion, I meant that RATM have aways used their politics (I say "their", I mean the politics they pretend to adhere to) as a marketing tool, which it should never, ever be. If you are singing about politics you should be doing so because it's something you truly believe and feel is important enough to push. Not because it'll get angsty teens that haven't formed any political opinions of their own yet but know that their middle and upper class parents definately don't agree to buy your records.
Ah I see. Well fair point, definitely. I would think however, that they do feel strongly about the politics and message they put across. I certainly don't think they used it solely to tap into a market of angst-ridden teenagers. I think that's an extremely cynical way of looking at it. Neither of us really know their intentions though, obviously, so pointless arguing about it.
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I must admit I often don't pay any attention to lyrics.
haha same here kinda. I mean I know some of the lyrics but I dont really care what they mean they just fit the music and thats all they need to do for me :P
Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!
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Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!
I guess it could be related to pretty much anything...............
There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.
The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.
There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
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Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!
I guess it could be related to pretty much anything...............
There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.
The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.
There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
I'm sure I've read or seen an interview with Oeart saying that it was inspired by a cartoon?
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I don't want to get into deep water by trying to analyse it too precisely, but The Trees is definitely a political allegory of sorts.
The oaks represent the rich or ruling classes, the maples represent the ordinary working folks demanding equal rights. The lines
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
are quite significant, because they suggest that, rather than attaining true equality and a better lot in life, the maples have simply dragged down the oaks to a "lowest common denominator" level.
I remember there was quite a fuss at the time, as the song was seen in some quarters as an attack on communism/socialism. I think someone (the NME, perhaps?) even branded Rush "fascists". Whatever the truth, at the time Neil Peart certainly was influenced by the writings of Ayn Rand - and I don't know enough about her to attempt to sum her up in a sentence!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand)
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If your music is political, then the politics comes first, otherwise everyone would think Skrewdriver were an awesome oi band as opposed to nazi imbeciles.
Very good point, and almost impossible to argue with :) .
Except it's interesting to note that extreme left wing views, whilst unpopular, are at least "acceptable", whereas extreme right wing views are so unacceptable that they're virtually unmentionable. Despite the fact that a great many people are pretty right wing, especially on social issues.
That's just an observation.
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If your music is political, then the politics comes first, otherwise everyone would think Skrewdriver were an awesome oi band as opposed to nazi imbeciles.
Very good point, and almost impossible to argue with :) .
Except it's interesting to note that extreme left wing views, whilst unpopular, are at least "acceptable", whereas extreme right wing views are so unacceptable that they're virtually unmentionable. Despite the fact that a great many people are pretty right wing, especially on social issues.
That's just an observation.
I had a lengthy reply typed. But I can sum it up as;
The left wing is right. :lol:
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Extreme left wing and extreme right wing are however very similar in the way thay are implied, but never fully meet in the ideological sense.
anyway.... definately not worth gettting into a political debate, as I am probably outspoken on whatever matter it may well be. unless someone fancies starting a politics thread :lol:
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unless someone fancies starting a politics thread :lol:
Nah. :wink:
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They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.
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They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.
That's a great idea. How about:
Let's say goodbye with a mutherfu*kin smile, dear,
Just for a while, dear, we must part, urgggh.
Don't let the parting upset you,
I'll not forget you, sweetheart.
We'll mutherfu*kin meet again, don't know where, don't know when, urgggh,
But I know we'll meet again, some mutherfu*kin sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away, urgggh.
I think it would work rather well.
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They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.
That's a great idea. How about:
Let's say goodbye with a mutherfu*kin smile, dear,
Just for a while, dear, we must part, urgggh.
Don't let the parting upset you,
I'll not forget you, sweetheart.
We'll mutherfu*kin meet again, don't know where, don't know when, urgggh,
But I know we'll meet again, some mutherfu*kin sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away, urgggh.
I think it would work rather well.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.
That's a great idea. How about:
Let's say goodbye with a mutherfu*kin smile, dear,
Just for a while, dear, we must part, urgggh.
Don't let the parting upset you,
I'll not forget you, sweetheart.
We'll mutherfu*kin meet again, don't know where, don't know when, urgggh,
But I know we'll meet again, some mutherfu*kin sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away, urgggh.
I think it would work rather well.
That's pretty damn good :D
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I love this forum... :lol:
I'd been studiously ignoring this thread because I know nothing whatsoeverabout RATM - and nothing I've just read makes me feel I might like to change that!! - but it's been a most entertaining read.
The "Trees" discussion was most interesting to me, btw. I only recently discovered that Peart was into Ayn Rand, and it does put a different perspective on stuff like Trees. I read Rand's Atlas Shrugged 10-15 years ago - it was utterly life changing for me, and in many ways I still live by what I learnt when reading it.
I reckon Philly Q's right in his reading of the last four lines:
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
But if it is from Rand, I suspect there is also an amused irony in there as well - it's not just that there's no more oak oppression, ALL the trees are hacked now, any tree that reaches too high is hacked, including the maples that passed the law (or who caused the law to be passed). But maybe I heard all that because I'd also read Ayn Rand?
The idea of "creating a level playing field" by cutting off the legs of those who can run fastest is abhorrent to the ideas put across by Ayn Rand.
There's a whole bunch of other stuff in her writings that I don't understand, and some of it seems to undermine the main thing I learnt: "don't believe stuff that other people tell you without thinking for yourself"!!
She seems to have been against idealogies - religious, political, wotever - that demand a "leap of faith" in answer to justifiable questions about the validity of the assertions that they make. But it seems to me that people who pick up her ideas and try to explain them are in danger of falling into the same trap!
I understand that she is regarded as part of "commie-hating 50s US right-wingery", and maybe she was, but for me it doesn't undermine the central idea I received from her: "don't accept the cr@p they feed you, listen, and think, for yourself"
And funnily enough, this seems relevant to the original topic (whichever side of the argument you're on) :D
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This is a great thread. I'm trying not to go into the discussion as I can get heated when it comes to politics.
All I can say is that I like RATM's lyrics and they meant every word at that time.
I read an interview with Tom Morello and I agreed with alot he said. He knows his polics and laws. Unfortunately he doesn't understand economics as well as law and politics. That's more my expertise so I can't agree with the man about everything.
I too would like to see a world without injustice and poverty.
I don't know if it's true that RATM gave money to some militia. If they did, that would be wrong IMO. That militia will buy weapons for that money and they will kill people with those weapons.
RATM performed at Pink Pop this year. I was looking forward to see the TV coverage but Zach didn't want it to be filmed. Probably because of copyrights and royalties and such. That doesn't sound very socialistic to me.
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It would be interesting Ratrod to find out from the guy himself. Then again we have been deceived before by goverment, religion, etc...a common trait no?