Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: hunter on February 20, 2009, 06:13:40 PM
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Ok, this thread shall be about the little things, that make "your" tone (apart from the obvious fingers).
I will start with:
Strings and stringing
I swear by Eric Johnson GHS signature pure nicke wrap 0.10-50. They just make my LesPaul types sing. I string the Edwards around the tailpiece (from the bridge pickup side to the back and then over the top to the tune-o-matic).
Really - it "sings"!
Picks
Thick picks for me. And sharp tips. That's why I like the Dunlop JazzIII shape. Recently I discovered them in the Ultex version, which adds a nice sparkle to their fatness.
Cable
Vovox all the way. Really expensive, but they last forever, they are nice to use as they never get twisted real bad, and they make a huge difference in tone!
These are the main ones.
So which are your "Secrets of Tone"?
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I will simply say that everything has something to do with your tone and no one can make up for another.
Every person on each forum ive been too has there opinion on which is more important amps,guitars strings picks etc. but end in end its the combination of these which gives you that tone but of course fingers win allways....
Also ive learned that you have to go try stuff out i mean you read all day about what you want and how much every one prasies something but you go try it out and you end up liking something thats either cheaper or hell of alot more expensive. had to let that out :)
Strings sound wise i love blue steels the thickist i can get 11-52 is the best for feel and sound but sound wise i would say 11-54 but feel wise the g is unbendable.
picks dunlop jazz III all the way does anyone else notice a tone difference in black and red?
red's are for me they sound smoother black has a little brighter attack....
Also I have a weird way of stringing my les Paul or any guitar actually I don’t wrap the string around … it feels better and gives more sustain ive noticed… just stick the string through the tuner and tighten…
Cables evidence audio melody series for me expensive but damn well worth it.
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Nice idea Hunter :) Hopefully my thoughts won't be too controversial. I'll stick to live setting, since i'm experimenting more at home.
Thick 11-48,49,50 strings, not ernie ball - hurt my fingers a bit, and hopefully help me to play a bit more passionately. (at home i also like 9s)
Flying V or Steinberger GP shape - looks good on stage, hopefully giving the impression of good tone/ability to the audience - its a bit fake i know, but i think it works. i think hard maple through neck with ceramic pickups gives the gwEm sound ;)
Absolutely no digital equipment in my signal chain (though that might change one day). Live I swear by sansamp gear.
Vintage or modern high gain pickups - no vintage hot stuff
Also, its not really a secret but I think the only pickups which sound ALOT different to the typical listener are EMG vs passive. Only active pickups give the active tone.
I have a 'lucky cable' too, it probably sounds like arse, but i used it for years ;)
I've tried alot of picks, but i'm used to dunlop tortex 0.88mm. i could probably get used to different picks, but i find it hard to use anything else. its firm enough, but not too thick so it breaks the strings. when i was a young punk, i snapped strings all the time at home. i heard phil campbell from motorhead used this picks so not knowing anything else i tried them. seemed to help at the time :)
edit:
you see there quite alot of superstition in my tips... mmm, i never thought about that before. not much of substance people can take here - unless its to be absolutely comfortable and trusting in ones equipment. which is a really important thing actually
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Mine tone tips/secrets? Buy the best gear you can afford. More often than not, the expense is justified.
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I agree with twinfan
Also about the tortex i use to use 1.0 mm tortex the purple ones to but moved to jazz III the scratch annoys me so much now it took me about a month to be as comfortable with the jazz III as i was with the tortex but it was worth it. I can switch back now ha. a good type of curse
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Mine tone tips/secrets? Buy the best gear you can afford. More often than not, the expense is justified.
That's really just it. The rest is up to you!
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My right hand. My left hand. My ears.
Cliched, but I think it's the greatest truth in the endlessly pretentious, mystic and superstitious world of the musician.
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For me it's yellow tortex picks and home made pedals. A loud Rat and an orange amp and you can't go far wrong.
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Use your Volume and Tone knobs! They can do a lot to alter your sound.
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Gear matching.
Some combinations of gear come to life, greater than the sum or their parts etc etc yada yada
Other than that, if it sounds good it IS good, and trust your ears at ALL TIMES.
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The more I point at the crowd and pull silly faces the better I will sound.
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Get a good guitar. A guitar is just a tool that is there to make a tone full, in tune note or collection of notes to be sent to your amplifier. Weather expensive or cheap, if it can do this, it's a good guitar.
I honestly believe that in most cases the amp should cost more than the guitar, though this can change when you go into high end guitars... the amp makes your sound, as does your cab.
A cheap nasty strat into a nice plexi will always sound better than a PRS into an MG.
If you're using loads of distortion, even a nearly cranked plexi, the differences between guitars become smaller and smaller. Sure they're type can come through, Strat singles VS Les Paul hums, but many times over the years have i tried a great amp with cheap and expensive guitars and rarely does a big difference show up.
However every time, the cheap guitar is dreadful clean.
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Mine tone tips/secrets? Buy the best gear you can afford. More often than not, the expense is justified.
this
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Gear matching.
Some combinations of gear come to life, greater than the sum or their parts etc etc yada yada
Other than that, if it sounds good it IS good, and trust your ears at ALL TIMES.
this
generally more expensive gear is better, but that doesn't mean that some expensive gear isn't overpriced, or that there aren't some good bargains out there too.
also, use less treble. :lol:
EDIT: oh yeah, generally there's a level of quality i won't go under, where i know if i buy it it'll be a waste of money. it's a bit subjective, but i can "feel" (or hear) that it's just not good enough... for me, it's the entry level Japanese copies. they aren't the only guitars of that quality (or better), but that's more or less where i draw the line.
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I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
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My right hand. My left hand. My ears.
Cliched, but I think it's the greatest truth in the endlessly pretentious, mystic and superstitious world of the musician.
To further substantiate this and your later comment ( just above this post ) NFE ; - here is a short video clip of an old man with his electric guitar plugged straight into the house P.A. system, no amp or pedals between. The tone is ( to my ears ) enviable.
I know this won't impress the cranked valve amp affectionados - but ' listen without predudice ' . :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAiap_BwIM
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I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
It's the player not the gear in my opinion.
I know Satriani's tone is somewhat divisive, but on a cheap strat copy and god knows what amp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9v5e1TTwts&feature=related
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My right hand. My left hand. My ears.
Cliched, but I think it's the greatest truth in the endlessly pretentious, mystic and superstitious world of the musician.
Think I agree.
To further substantiate this and your later comment ( just above this post ) NFE ; - here is a short video clip of an old man with his electric guitar plugged straight into the house P.A. system, no amp or pedals between. The tone is ( to my ears ) enviable.
I know this won't impress the cranked valve amp affectionados - but ' listen without predudice ' . :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAiap_BwIM
I probably fall into the "cranked valve amp afficionado" group.
Impressed me a lot.
I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
It's the player not the gear in my opinion.
I know Satriani's tone is somewhat divisive, but on a cheap strat copy and god knows what amp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9v5e1TTwts&feature=related
And this one also shows how much of it is how the player attacks the instrument that affects the tone IMO.
Not saying that good gear doesn't make a difference, but I do think as I get older that a lot of it is psychological. If you have a sound that's close to the one in your head it makes you feel better and more inspired about playing. Have done some recording (nowt serious) at a mates where we swapped gear, and he still sounds like him, and I still sound like me.
My two penn'orth
:)
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Mine tone tips/secrets? Buy the best gear you can afford. More often than not, the expense is justified.
That's really just it. The rest is up to you!
+1 - BUT the most important part is the "you". Spend a few minutes looking at some Youtube videos and you will find some guys showing off their latest boutique gear and they sound cringingly bad whilst others with 'ordinary' gear sound amazing. Often they will use lack of technique/practice as an excuse to move on to the next mega expensive gear.
I think the John Suhr quote in my sig sums it up "Practice cures most tone issues"
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And this one also shows how much of it is how the player attacks the instrument that affects the tone IMO.........Have done some recording (nowt serious) at a mates where we swapped gear, and he still sounds like him, and I still sound like me.
I agree with this too - myself and MartinW have swapped rigs many times when trying out guitars/amps and we still sound like each other straight away.
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When you get to that point its an awsome feelings, im very content with my mark iv i would love a diezel but i feel comfortable enough to know that if i were to A/B them it would just sound like me with a boogie or me with a diezel.
Allways a paul with me though :)
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Great example listen to this...
All of his clips from bogner, mesa, marshall all sound like him but with the slight taste of the amp hes using.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Treetopper
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Lots of good thoughts in this thread.
My addition is ..... good power !
Seriously, I think a key issue for tube amps pushing any amount of distortion is the quality of electricity that the amp is getting. At so many gigs, our band usually is running off one or (if we're lucky) two sockets (and that includes the PA and lights !). I find my tone under those circumstances extremely variable, and often rather cr@ppy and bright. I am convinced that it is down to inappropriate power supply, and my amp simply not being able to draw the current it needs in competition with all the other stuff plugged into the same outlet. There are many other stories of folks having these issues, and sorting it out with a proper (ie. expensive) power regulator.
I don't get these problems at our rehearsal venues, which all have good, and multiple, power outlets.
I'm getting so frustrated with these issues at the moment that I'm actually in the middle of changing over to a clean amp plus pedals rig for live use - I'm hoping that I'll get a much more consistent tone.
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Lots of good thoughts in this thread.
My addition is ..... good power !
Seriously, I think a key issue for tube amps pushing any amount of distortion is the quality of electricity that the amp is getting. At so many gigs, our band usually is running off one or (if we're lucky) two sockets (and that includes the PA and lights !). I find my tone under those circumstances extremely variable, and often rather cr@ppy and bright. I am convinced that it is down to inappropriate power supply, and my amp simply not being able to draw the current it needs in competition with all the other stuff plugged into the same outlet. There are many other stories of folks having these issues, and sorting it out with a proper (ie. expensive) power regulator.
I don't get these problems at our rehearsal venues, which all have good, and multiple, power outlets.
I'm getting so frustrated with these issues at the moment that I'm actually in the middle of changing over to a clean amp plus pedals rig for live use - I'm hoping that I'll get a much more consistent tone.
There is only one solution for a real tone afficionado to overcome this. You gotta lug this to your gigs, only then have you full control:
(http://www.beyer-baumaschinen.de/Mietgerate/Stromerzeuger/Stromgenerator-SE-20-F.jpg)
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Tone starts in the heart and moves to the hands.
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Apart from me as the player, it's my old 2X12 Bandmaster cab. I've been using it from day 1. It's the only consistent piece of gear throughout my playing career. it has always been there. It's a big influence on my tone and probably my playing too.
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Use your Volume and Tone knobs! They can do a lot to alter your sound.
Definitely! I sometimes knock down the tone slightly to fatten up lead lines and if you use a noise gate and then roll down your volume you can get a kind of auto-swell effect which is rather pleasing.
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I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
i agree that the player is the most important thing, but there is a certain level of cr@ppiness under which it's going to affect how well you can play. i mean, i don't see many formula 1 racing drivers trading in their F1 cars for vauxhall corsas... of course the person is more important, but the tools play a pretty big part too. "a poor workman blames his tools" is a stupid proverb, if you ask me, the tools CAN be bad enough as to not be suitable for the job. granted quality tools won't make a hack sound like a virtuoso... but sufficiently poor tools can make a virtuoso sound, if not like a hack perhaps, a lot worse than he/she should sound...
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Turn it up! 8)
+1 about vol and tone knobs, I find it more fun to play with them on a bright guitar though, rather than turning up the treble on the amp then cutting down the controls on a dark guitar.
Picks: I am quite happy swapping between Jazz III XL's and 1.22 britpicks, similar size, but different shape and tone.
Soon to try some SOB strings, which should be interesting, and a Bogner cab should be here in a week, will see how those kind of things change the sound.
My cleartone cables are getting noisy! Quite the revelation, considering how well they are thought of around here. Next time I may just get the standard jacks and use tuner mute.
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I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
i agree that the player is the most important thing, but there is a certain level of cr@ppiness under which it's going to affect how well you can play. i mean, i don't see many formula 1 racing drivers trading in their F1 cars for vauxhall corsas... of course the person is more important, but the tools play a pretty big part too. "a poor workman blames his tools" is a stupid proverb, if you ask me, the tools CAN be bad enough as to not be suitable for the job. granted quality tools won't make a hack sound like a virtuoso... but sufficiently poor tools can make a virtuoso sound, if not like a hack perhaps, a lot worse than he/she should sound...
There's truth in this, but I think you have to get into really, really terrible gear before it starts to make a huge difference. A level of quality that virtually nothing you can buy in the current market new, obviously) falls below.
I've always kinda thought if you can't comfortably get through, say a wedding gig, with a bargain bucket squire and a cheap as chips transistor amp then you simply can't play guitar.
It's just the implied snobbery of the the more expensive the better opinion of a couple folk in this thread annoys me.
Being skint and getting on with what you've got does more for your tone than any amount of money will. Actually, I'm going to make that my mantra.
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Havent we been through the gear/player thing before?
Like, a meeeeeeeelion times?
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My right hand. My left hand. My ears.
Cliched, but I think it's the greatest truth in the endlessly pretentious, mystic and superstitious world of the musician.
To further substantiate this and your later comment ( just above this post ) NFE ; - here is a short video clip of an old man with his electric guitar plugged straight into the house P.A. system, no amp or pedals between. The tone is ( to my ears ) enviable.
I know this won't impress the cranked valve amp affectionados - but ' listen without predudice ' . :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAiap_BwIM
and Pete Townsend proving it once more... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxZ77w9bnm8
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I'm going to add to my earlier cliched statement another.
If you can't sound decent with a squier and a Marshall MG. Then chances are you wont sound any use with a '59 Les Paul and a Plexi. Gear NEVER makes up for lack of ability.
It's the player not the gear in my opinion.
I know Satriani's tone is somewhat divisive, but on a cheap strat copy and god knows what amp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9v5e1TTwts&feature=related
I actually think thats one of the best tones I've ever heard Satriani get.
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Havent we been through the gear/player thing before?
Like, a meeeeeeeelion times?
yeah, definitely :lol:
it's certainly a bit of both, if you ask me. i just don't like the eejits (not that there are necessarily any here, i mean on other forums) who refuse to believe that either the player, or the gear (depending on their viewpoint) makes any diference AT ALL. :lol:
There's truth in this, but I think you have to get into really, really terrible gear before it starts to make a huge difference. A level of quality that virtually nothing you can buy in the current market new, obviously) falls below.
I've always kinda thought if you can't comfortably get through, say a wedding gig, with a bargain bucket squire and a cheap as chips transistor amp then you simply can't play guitar.
It's just the implied snobbery of the the more expensive the better opinion of a couple folk in this thread annoys me.
Being skint and getting on with what you've got does more for your tone than any amount of money will. Actually, I'm going to make that my mantra.
i disagree. there are plenty of new guitars and amps which i've tried which i wouldn't want to have to use. i could "get by" on them, but i don't see why i should have to. plus it depends on what i'm playing- if i'm just playing powerchords etc., i could get by on almost anything. if i'm trying to play a sweep-picked arpeggio at a million miles an hour, i need all the help i can get :lol: and seemingly minute differences in quality can make all the difference.
then there's the whole "personal preference" thing, where a neck shape isn't necessarily a measure of quality, but if it doesn't suit you, it can affect how well you play.
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+1111111111111111111111111111111111
I love my les paul but the neck is so damn thick when i pickup a strat i can play so much faster and more comfortably it really does affect your playing.
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Of course it effects your playing.
What I'm saying is that your hands and ears make more of a difference than any gear ever will.
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True but the whole reasons we have these forums in my opinion is that we all know where we are at in are playing and want to improve are tone I’m sorry but if your hear a good guitarist with so much ear raping treble you want to turn away that of course is an extreme but the reason we are hear at Bareknuckle forum's rig-talk etc. is for tone there’s section for technique and working on your playing yes but this post as stated in above is for little things that improve your tone not all the tone is in the fingers correct? Don’t mean to sound like an asshole if I’m coming off that way but, I’m just saying tone is something we all throw are money at, having amazing tone inspires you... it makes you feel confident.. and in end can help you get to that next level in your playing who doesnt want to feel like they have the best tone and have infinite sustain i know i do :)
It also tone works hand in hand on how you write I mean having huge chunky rhythm will cause for a more staccato approach which is awesome a fluid lead sound will lead for more slow runs because that sustain is there but when you try that sustain lead approach with the rhythm sound that have a compressor and noise gate your sustain gets cut off and you don’t have that warmth and feel you did with that same lead sound which in my case would have oh so much delay :)
IMO everything has to do with your tone period.
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Punctuation? :lol:
That makes my eyes tired :(
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Ha i just wrote it in word first and it did it all for me probably all wrong though
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Of course it effects your playing.
What I'm saying is that your hands and ears make more of a difference than any gear ever will.
agreed, but you can set up extremes of gear too- plug a strat into a fender twin, and then something with EMGs into the modern channel of a recto, and you're going to sound different. personally, the gear i'm using makes me play differently too.
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Oh I'm not trying to say that your hands can pull a high gain sound out of a jazz box and a JC120, but that you're hands make more more of a difference to the quality of any particular sound than anything else.
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Oh I'm not trying to say that your hands can pull a high gain sound out of a jazz box and a JC120, but that you're hands make more more of a difference to the quality of any particular sound than anything else.
Also settings are key- some guys have great gear but too much gain, treble or bass or effects or whatnot.
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No the quality comes from the mic amp and cab with a decent guitar of course what your playing and how your playing play a part but quality thats "tone" try going into a studio/live with a sure c606 and try to see if you can make any amp sound good
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Another thing i want to add adjusting your settingto the acoustics of a room is a huge one!
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No the quality comes from the mic amp and cab with a decent guitar of course what your playing and how your playing play a part but quality thats "tone" try going into a studio/live with a sure c606 and try to see if you can make any amp sound good
Mics are a completely diffirent topic.
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They fit into the topic of tone because when you play live your tone sounds nothing like what it sounds like out of the PA system, I play out alot and have played in places with horrible and great sound systems your tone could sound amazing out of the amp but horrid out of the PA.
EDIT: Well i guess what ive been saying everything has to do with your tone ill leave my opinion to that. Just like taste of tone we all have prefrences and we all are going to agree that different things make up your tone more a argument no one is ever going to win.
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Yes, but that's not something you have direct control over all the time.
I can make my guitar produce different sounds with my hands, I can't make a static mic recieve sound or transfer it any differently regardless of what I'm doing. So it's really not the same thing at all.
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Well if your the one to place the mic and choose the mic (Which i allways do live) then of course its up to you i only use a Sennheiser E906 So yea i do choose there because i could have used a I5 or SM57 and those are different tones.
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Oh I'm not trying to say that your hands can pull a high gain sound out of a jazz box and a JC120, but that you're hands make more more of a difference to the quality of any particular sound than anything else.
oh yeah, definitely. :)
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I've always kinda thought if you can't comfortably get through, say a wedding gig, with a bargain bucket squire and a cheap as chips transistor amp then you simply can't play guitar.
i disagree. there are plenty of new guitars and amps which i've tried which i wouldn't want to have to use. i could "get by" on them, but i don't see why i should have to.
Exactly Dave, exactly. That's the whole reason we're on this forum, to improve our tone via BKPs because we can. I could do a 'DC gig with a Squier Strat and a loud cheap amp but what's the point? Where's the fun in that?
It's just the implied snobbery of the the more expensive the better opinion of a couple folk in this thread annoys me.
I take it that's aimed at me and Ben? In which case I'm going to be the bigger man and bite my tongue :evil:
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I take it that's aimed at me and Ben? In which case I'm going to be the bigger man and bite my tongue :evil:
It was yeah, cause you've both said exactly that. I just think it's an utterly daft point of view. If we could could buy PRS the price we could in the states, would you be buying Tom Andersons instead and insisting they're the ultimate guitar for you?
The whole series of posts kinda was, to be honest. Because you're a good player, as is Ben, but you both seem to really subscribe to the idea that you need all this stuff to be good and it's just total nonsense.
I have some expensive gear too, but I'm well aware of the fact I can get by without it, I just like cool gear. :lol:
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Exactly Dave, exactly. That's the whole reason we're on this forum, to improve our tone via BKPs because we can. I could do a 'DC gig with a Squier Strat and a loud cheap amp but what's the point? Where's the fun in that?
It's just the implied snobbery of the the more expensive the better opinion of a couple folk in this thread annoys me.
I take it that's aimed at me and Ben? In which case I'm going to be the bigger man and bite my tongue :evil:
yeah, definitely (regarding the fun thing). to me, if a piece of gear makes me want to play more (as long as it's not a daft amount of money, of course), it's worth it. don't get me wrong, some things are better value than others, believing that something is good solely because it's expensive is a dangerous frame of mind to get into, and there's some expensive stuff which i don't really like at all, but a lot of the time, the really nice stuff is at least reasonably expensive.
:)
I have some expensive gear too, but I'm well aware of the fact I can get by without it, I just like cool gear. :lol:
isn't that what we're all like? :)
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Thats what i was trying to get at the whole time! We dont need it but what the hell if it makes you love your instrument more makes you play it more then why not dish out the bucks $%&# when i boguht my first les paul i would stare at it all day i dont mine paying another 3000$ to fall in love all over again with a les paul custom :P
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I take it that's aimed at me and Ben? In which case I'm going to be the bigger man and bite my tongue :evil:
It was yeah, cause you've both said exactly that. I just think it's an utterly daft point of view. If we could could buy PRS the price we could in the states, would you be buying Tom Andersons instead and insisting they're the ultimate guitar for you?
The whole series of posts kinda was, to be honest. Because you're a good player, as is Ben, but you both seem to really subscribe to the idea that you need all this stuff to be good and it's just total nonsense.
I have some expensive gear too, but I'm well aware of the fact I can get by without it, I just like cool gear. :lol:
You've missed the point, nfe. We're not discussing what you need to get a tone you can get by with. It's tips about how to get that 'great' tone, that's what I understand by Hunter's original post anyhow.
As for the PRS comment, I don't like them because they're seen to be expensive and I've only bought them to be a poseur. I like them because they work for me better than any other guitar, regardless of their price.
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You've missed the point, nfe. We're not discussing what you need to get a tone you can get by with. It's tips about how to get that 'great' tone, that's what I understand by Hunter's original post anyhow.
I know we are. And I stated what I think is the biggest part of getting your tone. And people disagreed with me, and I tried to explain why I think that. And now we're here :)
I mean, lets be honest, we ALL spend way more money on our gear than the people we wish we sounded as good as do/did, and we'll never sound like them, because that greatness is in their hands, not what ever wood and metal they're holding, or stamping on, or plugging in to.
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i don't disagree with you at all. being a better player and having tone in your hands is just a given, as far as i'm concerned. of course a better player will sound better than a worse player, (almost) regardless of gear, but the same player will sound better with better gear (or better-suited gear, anyway). :)
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^ exactly!
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i don't disagree with you at all. being a better player and having tone in your hands is just a given, as far as i'm concerned. of course a better player will sound better than a worse player, (almost) regardless of gear, but the same player will sound better with better gear (or better-suited gear, anyway). :)
Totally agree.
Really what I'm getting at I suppose, is that in a thread called "Your secrets of tone" people were talking about the cost of gear as a factor, or at least phrasing it as such, and I think that's quite silly, not to mention discouraging to folks without many pennies.
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well, i know i used to get annoyed with my cheaper gear, it never sounded how i wanted... now i have better gear (not all of it is more expensive, but some of it is) i'm a lot happier... however, i've also got better as a player since then, so it's hard to say how much of it's gear and how much of it is being a better player. but i'm pretty sure at least some of it's gear, as when i got the better gear, there was an obvious "jump" in my playing. i think it also helps me to play better too...
btw, i put in the "(almost) regardless of gear" in case someone came up with something like a shoebox strung with elastic bands... :lol:
and cheers dave :)
EDIT: lol, just had a thought- is "practice more!" really a secret, anyway? :lol:
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EDIT: lol, just had a thought- is "practice more!" really a secret, anyway? :lol:
I've worked in many a guitar shop, and I'm off back to work in one soon, hearing folks play all day every day, and on that experience, I actually think it is :lol:
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Really what I'm getting at I suppose, is that in a thread called "Your secrets of tone" people were talking about the cost of gear as a factor, or at least phrasing it as such, and I think that's quite silly, not to mention discouraging to folks without many pennies.
So why are you so anti-spending money on gear, nfe? If you don't believe in that kind of thing why are you on a boutique pickup makers forum? You're preaching to the wrong crowd...
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Really what I'm getting at I suppose, is that in a thread called "Your secrets of tone" people were talking about the cost of gear as a factor, or at least phrasing it as such, and I think that's quite silly, not to mention discouraging to folks without many pennies.
So why are you so anti-spending money on gear, nfe? If you don't believe in that kind of thing why are you on a boutique pickup makers forum? You're preaching to the wrong crowd...
I'm not. Not at all. It's just that quite often folks (not just yourself, like) insinuate that expense is like a badge of quality, and I don;t think that's at all true.
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Really what I'm getting at I suppose, is that in a thread called "Your secrets of tone" people were talking about the cost of gear as a factor, or at least phrasing it as such, and I think that's quite silly, not to mention discouraging to folks without many pennies.
So why are you so anti-spending money on gear, nfe? If you don't believe in that kind of thing why are you on a boutique pickup makers forum? You're preaching to the wrong crowd...
sometimes dave and ben can come across as massive gear snobs sometimes i must admit ;) but clearly they aren't spending money for moneys sake - look at daves epiphones and his post about the cheap tonerider pedals, and ben just brought an agile and recommended a cheap fuzz box recently. the comment: "Buy the best gear you can afford." could hardly be argued with! the follow up "More often than not, the expense is justified." well, that could be considered more controversial certainly.
"Buy the best gear you can afford." means trying loads of stuff out and making sure it is the best first :) obviously no one means just buy the most expensive stuff because its the most expensive and so it must be the best... clearly it may not be. there are some cheap tone gems out there - and thats one of the points of this forum.
while i agree with dave and ben, the casual observer could interpret stuff in a pretty bad way thats for sure. i reckon thats happened here.
edit: recently i brought 2 mesa boogie 1x12 cabs, even if they were secondhand my wallet winced with pain.. but they have been the single biggest improvement in my tone for years
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Thanks for the post, gwEm. I don't intend to come across as a gear snob, so many apologies to everyone on the forum if I do :oops:
I'm not sure if this proves anything or not, but as well as the Modern Eagle I own and play:
Chinese Standard Squier Strat
Chinese Classic Vibe Squier Tele
Korean Epiphone SG
Gordon Smith SG
Nothing snobbish about any of those guitars I don't think? I've defended and recommended Squiers and Epiphones on this forum on several occasions, and would do so again. I've recommended and use the Tonerider pedals and Cleartone cables too.
I've played and owned a lot of gear, and I guess what I'm trying to do is pass on some of that learning to others as it might help someone get to what they're looking for quicker and cheaper than it did for me.
As an aside, that's two 'warm' discussions I've been involved in over the last week or so isn't it? I'd better step back and chill out for a bit.......
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EDIT: lol, just had a thought- is "practice more!" really a secret, anyway? :lol:
I've worked in many a guitar shop, and I'm off back to work in one soon, hearing folks play all day every day, and on that experience, I actually think it is :lol:
hahahahahaha :D
while i agree with dave and ben, the casual observer could interpret stuff in a pretty bad way thats for sure. i reckon thats happened here.
definitely. dave's great, even if i do keep him going a little about buying new guitars all the time (not that i can talk :lol: ). ben too. :)
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Thanks for the post, gwEm. I don't intend to come across as a gear snob, so many apologies to everyone on the forum if I do :oops:
Absolutly not TF! I think you're just a guy who has the money, and if you have it, why not get good stuff? Theres nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
I actually got the Squier CV Tele on your recommendation (and after a play through in GuitarGuitar), and its a fantastic guitar i might add.
As for the Expensive gear vs having the chops. Its a bit of both i think, obviously you need to practise to be good, but it also helps to have gear which inspires you to play. Otherwise you'll just get pissed off at what you're playing, and be unhappy with the sound. And i'm sure we've all been there at one point.
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:lol: guys, its a saturday night!
Although you lot make me feel simple, Les Paul, boost, Marshall > Sidewinders. I like it! Play what you like, and its nice if you have the variety to suite the song to the perfect gear.
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I do 42 squat thrusts...........put a glass of orange juice on my amp and I exclusively and i mean EXCLUSIVELY use Dunlop picks! the green ones!
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i apply 240v from the main to my passive pups. that gives you some extra output to drive your amp and to set fire to your internal organs. which is awesome if you cant afford real pyrotechnics. on the other hand. fireworks are pretty cheap... and its ALWAYS funny to throw them around inside venues during other bands sets.
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I've found that with my Laney at low gain, p90s work better. I think its because the laneys quite stiff and so are humbuckers, so the looseness that p90s have sort of evens it out :)
Twinfan, I'd ignore nfe, I swear he just goes in threads to start arguments :P
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I find my tone always reaches its zenith approximately 5 minutes before I have to stop playing (dinner's ready or needs doing, time for bed, going out, in-laws just about to arrive, whatever...)
Anyone else find this? If only we could distill that "5 minutes to go vibe" and put it in a spray, a roll-on, an effects pedal, or something... :lol:
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Good expensive gear, years of practice/playing, a rockin wardrobe, an amp that goes to 11 & Blue M&M's. Gotta be Blue! :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)
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A raw bit of passion in your playing is what can set yourself out I find. Nothing sounds more sucky than someone who is just not fussed when it comes to playing.
Having a strong passion and enjoying what you do can add more on tone if that makes sense? :P
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A raw bit of passion in your playing is what can set yourself out I find. Nothing sounds more sucky than someone who is just not fussed when it comes to playing.
Having a strong passion and enjoying what you do can add more on tone if that makes sense? :P
That's a very good point. Indeed that's a view I share with you 100%
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i think you need a feel and understanding of what genre or whatever you're trying to pull off. Ive watched my friends who are more technical than me try and copy what i do and it sounds aweful. not that im aweful sounding to being with, there doesnt seem to be anything organic about they way they go about playing.
i dont play about with pick choices, or changing strings every 5 mins. i think there comes a point when you know what sound you want, and you know how to drive amps etc... and that knowledge makes it easier.
Ive turned up to gigs where ive had to string, tune and set up an amp for the guitarist for a support band because he had NO idea how to do any of that, but he could just about play. thats it! crazy!
i think there must be a difference between people who listen to, break down, and analyse music, rather than those who just consume it and carry on.
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i think you need a feel and understanding of what genre or whatever you're trying to pull off.
Excellent point Dmoney. Very, very important.
Not so much about tone, but about achieving a musical, and convincing rendition of pretty much anything at all.
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i think you need a feel and understanding of what genre or whatever you're trying to pull off.
Excellent point Dmoney. Very, very important.
Not so much about tone, but about achieving a musical, and convincing rendition of pretty much anything at all.
cheers!
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I think you need a feel and understanding of what genre or whatever you're trying to pull off.
Yes , not only a very succinct and accurate summary of ANY of our individual efforts to best convey different styles, but I think that sentence also reconciles both sides of the good gear v.s. 'feel' argument.
I read that as basically " what do I really need to present this genre in a convincing and entertaing way ?".
That philosophy unifies my 'needs'- ( completely met using a Chinese guitar, small solid state amp yet B.K.P pickups ) - with the person who will genuinely benefit from a cranked JCM800, top of the range guitar , boutique pickups , expensive speaker cabs and carefully chosen drivers - and a shed load of effects.
Soak up the sound and spirit of the genre - and the ( diverse but equally valid ) gear choices follow. :)
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Yes, that's right on d'money.
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Yes, that's right on d'money.
I think you need to go back to your corner now, nfe, and think about what you've done.
:D
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:oops:
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didnt even notice that little joke there! cheers for pointing that out roo!
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hahahahaha, i missed that too :lol:
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I think you need a feel and understanding of what genre or whatever you're trying to pull off.
In a nut shell, the above 18 words sums it up pretty well: Bravo!
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Hmmm a thorny issue :|
Well my first electric guitar was from Woolworths and I thought it sounded wonderful through my old WEM amp.
Then I bought a Charvel with Jackson pickups and it sounded amazing in comparison. Then I pimped it with BKPs and its sounded even more amazing. When i plugged that in to my Koch amp it was another leap in good tone, the same with all my other guitars with BKPs and that amp. But If my mate Andy who I jam with from time to time played through that lot it would sound pants as he won't work on his technique and improve his playing. So its both things but great players can sound good with poorer equipment and they do this cos' they work it more. You have to put some 'ompf' into it fret cleanly, mute the unwanted and pick with passion.
Well that's my input on this. Also if you have the money for great gear then why put up with cheap stuff for the sake it?
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You do need the right gear to get the tone but the important thing for me is the 'feel' you get from the right gear. It doesn't have to be expensive (but usually is)
I like response from my guitars and amps - so power amp distortion where possible and I find for me Gibsons have a more alive feeling than say PRS. The combination provides more touch sensitivity which means you can be more expressive with subtle volume changes, pick attack etc - that gives my tone. Different gear does make a different sound but also makes you play differently and that is a bigger factor for me.
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For me it's my Diezel Herbert (wow, secrets out :lol:) monsterously huge strings (75-11 on a 27" standard 7 string) high action (that's perhaps one I haven't seen people endorse so much because of the playability suffering) rolling back of the gain on the amp and alot of mids :)