Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: dark order flying V on May 05, 2011, 03:19:30 AM
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Hey all,
I just got notification that my new Aftermath pickup, with Black cover and nickel pole screws, sort legs and 2-conductor cable, is in the postal mail from Tim & co, and I'm nervous and excited about it at the same time.
For the last 15 years, I have tried pickup after pickup and I keep coming back to the Duncan Distortion SH6. I even tried the Painkiller and was horrified and within 30 minutes I put the SH6 back into my black flying V.
I want to hear your opinions of what I'm to expect! I'm hoping that the Aftermath will sound fatter that the Sh6, but just as chunky Thrash pick attack (eg: Exodus/Scott Ian) and clear and aggressive with awesome mid growl (like Slayer before the EMG period). I hope its a great Thrash Metal humbucker.
The guitar it's going to is custom made Grubisa black Flying V with a 'Dean' headstock,body and neck is all Brazilian Mahogany body and neck, Ebony frett board, 24 frets, setneck/string through body, Tonepros bridge, Sperzal locking tuners. SD Duncan Distortion SH6 in the Bridge and Sh1 '59 in the neck. I asked Tim about the neck and suggested the Riff raff, so if I love the Aftermath, I'll order it too.
I play straight through a Marshal JCM 2000 TSL100 (no effects or EQ's for Distortion, on clean channel there is chorus)
I play in the Australian Thrash Metal band 'DARK ORDER', and you can hear the different pickups I recorded the rhythm sounds for the last three albums, '5000 Years of Violence' is Sh6 through JCM 900 dual reverb, 'The Violence continuum' is a Dimarzio Megadrive through a JCM 200 DSL 100, and the new album 'Cold war of the condor' is a Seymour Duncan Parrallel axis Disortion PATB2B through my current rig of the TSL100 JCM 2000.
Just go to www.myspace.com/darkorder to listen to songs from all three albums.
The pickups I've tried are: Duncan Custom, JB, Dimebucker, Screamin Deamon, The Invader, Parrallel Axis TB I, Parrallel Axis PATB2B Distortion, Dimarzio SD, Megadrive, D Sonic, D Activator, D Activator X, X2N, Bill Lawrence XL500
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BTW, I am planning to make a video for Youtube where with each pick up I will play Slayer's 'War Ensemble' and then cut it together so you can hear the differences. :shock: :band5:
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it's cleaner, clearer and tighter than all the models you listed, so don't expect it to deliver as much "gain" (mud)
if clarity is what you're looking for, you'll be happy
definitely works for your style
brazilian mahogany (same as honduras) flying vees sound huge and the aftermath will help to keep things tight and cutting
can you post some pics of those vees?
great riffing, by the way :D
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Is the output the same as the Duncan Distortion? What about the mids???
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Is the output the same as the Duncan Distortion? What about the mids???
hard to tell
the sh-6 feels higher output than it actually is, since it's almost self-overdriven
the aftermath is punchier, but cleaner
strong midrange like the sh-6, but a much less hairy top and also more modern sounding
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Less 'hairy top end'? You mean like fizzy top end??? Sounds good so far.....can't wait. Also more punch? I hope so!
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Hey man, sorry for the OT...
I really love Dark Order!! You really rock!! I appreciated a lot 'Cold War...' as the previous one 'The Violence Continuum' (we did an interview for metal hammer magazine, Italy).
cheers
Pier
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Hey man, sorry for the OT...
I really love Dark Order!! You really rock!! I appreciated a lot 'Cold War...' as the previous one 'The Violence Continuum' (we did an interview for metal hammer magazine, Italy).
cheers
Pier
Hey mate! Thanks for all the support!!! Any opinion on the Aftermath vs the SD Duncan Distortion???
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Yo bro.. I cannot thelp you about the Aftermath... I'm new in this forum and new to this brand. I used a DD it's a killer pick up, really grwols but I never A/B'ed with a B.N Aftermath... so, I'm sorry, but cannot help you :(
cheers!
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Anyone with an opinion of the Aftermath vs the SD Duncan Distortion?????????
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what didn't you like about the painkiller? i must admit, although i do like it - it can be an acquired taste.
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You will probably have to add a bit more gain from the amp. Bareknuckles tend to have a cleaner signal than Seymour Duncans. They're not less powerful, they just have less "dirt and noise" from the pickup itself.
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I've got 3 aftermaths. They're great for very technical thrash (Coroner, Megadeth). It doesn't get much tighter. Personally my go-to for thrash like Slayer or Metallica would be a nailbomb.
As for vs the Distortion, I used distortions for years... here's the breakdown
Distortion : More high end, Less Mids
Aftermath : Smooth high end, Mid spike, crazy tight
You'll be happy with the Aftermath. If not, I'll take it :D
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The duncan distortion was my fav pickup before i got into the bare knuckle cult. Im currently considering to get myself the aftermath for another gibson flying v :)
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"For the last 15 years, I have tried pickup after pickup and I keep coming back to the Duncan Distortion SH6. I even tried the Painkiller and was horrified and within 30 minutes I put the SH6 back into my black flying V".
If you did not like Painkiller probably will not like Aftermath.
I think both have many similar characteristics.
By the way, like the SH-6 than Painkiller is a heresy.
Seymour Duncan SH-6 = GARBAGE. IMO.
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"For the last 15 years, I have tried pickup after pickup and I keep coming back to the Duncan Distortion SH6. I even tried the Painkiller and was horrified and within 30 minutes I put the SH6 back into my black flying V".
If you did not like Painkiller probably will not like Aftermath.
I think both have many similar characteristics.
By the way, like the SH-6 than Painkiller is a heresy.
Seymour Duncan SH-6 = GARBAGE. IMO.
They're both tight as all hell, that's about it. The painkiller has way more highs than the middy aftermath. I love the aftermath. Not crazy about the Painkiller (in alder)
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what didn't you like about the painkiller? i must admit, although i do like it - it can be an acquired taste.
The only way I can decribe it is that the Pain killer has no 'guts' in the sound, very thin.
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I've got 3 aftermaths. They're great for very technical thrash (Coroner, Megadeth). It doesn't get much tighter. Personally my go-to for thrash like Slayer or Metallica would be a nailbomb.
As for vs the Distortion, I used distortions for years... here's the breakdown
Distortion : More high end, Less Mids
Aftermath : Smooth high end, Mid spike, crazy tight
You'll be happy with the Aftermath. If not, I'll take it :D
Ohh! I like the sound of your description of the Aftermath vs the Distortion!!!! But you say the nailbomb is the shite for Slayer/Metallica style Thrash???? I mean, thats what we pretty much play, but I love the Scot Ian chunk too.
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"For the last 15 years, I have tried pickup after pickup and I keep coming back to the Duncan Distortion SH6. I even tried the Painkiller and was horrified and within 30 minutes I put the SH6 back into my black flying V".
If you did not like Painkiller probably will not like Aftermath.
I think both have many similar characteristics.
By the way, like the SH-6 than Painkiller is a heresy.
Seymour Duncan SH-6 = GARBAGE. IMO.
I think your wrong, through a Marshall the Sh6 has alot more guts than the Painkiller, which sounds thin and trebly compared to the Sh6.
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"For the last 15 years, I have tried pickup after pickup and I keep coming back to the Duncan Distortion SH6. I even tried the Painkiller and was horrified and within 30 minutes I put the SH6 back into my black flying V".
If you did not like Painkiller probably will not like Aftermath.
I think both have many similar characteristics.
By the way, like the SH-6 than Painkiller is a heresy.
Seymour Duncan SH-6 = GARBAGE. IMO.
They're both tight as all hell, that's about it. The painkiller has way more highs than the middy aftermath. I love the aftermath. Not crazy about the Painkiller (in alder)
As much as I don't like the Painkiller, perhaps it suits a very dark sounding Les Paul Custom. My all brazilian mahogany flying V is mor similar to an SG, meaning it has more mids/lessbass than a LP custom. BUt your description of the Aftermath, with powerful mids might, Ihope, do the trick. I play with alot of mids already, my EQ is: Bass=10, Mids=8, Treble=8, Presence=7-8. And thats with the TSL 100 'deep' switch turned OFF, becasue although its pleasing to hear the larg low end with it swithed on, I find that when playing in the band you loose alot of transient attack, plus you can run more overdrive with out the mud and leave the bass space for the bass guitar
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I don't think you tweaked the pickups height if you had it for only 30 min
the painkiller is not bass heavy, but it does get very chunky
only tried it a couple times in a brazilian mahogany ibanez RG7321, and it didn't sound thin at all, although it was a thin bodied bolt-on maple neck guitar
here's my friend trying it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENvB6X3imqg
I have a seymour duncan custom shop scott ian signature el diablo pickup that I just took out from a PRS
it doesn't clean up like any BKP model and gets muddy through high gain compared to a BKP
voicing-wise, I'd say the closest BKP to the diablo would be the alnico nailbomb, but the duncan is more midrangy and higher ouput
not a bad pickup at all, but I'd expect much more from a custom shop pickup
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I don't think you tweaked the pickups height if you had it for only 30 min
the painkiller is not bass heavy, but it does get very chunky
only tried it a couple times in a brazilian mahogany ibanez RG7321, and it didn't sound thin at all, although it was a thin bodied bolt-on maple neck guitar
here's my friend trying it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENvB6X3imqg
I have a seymour duncan custom shop scott ian signature el diablo pickup that I just took out from a PRS
it doesn't clean up like any BKP model and gets muddy through high gain compared to a BKP
voicing-wise, I'd say the closest BKP to the diablo would be the alnico nailbomb, but the duncan is more midrangy and higher ouput
not a bad pickup at all, but I'd expect much more from a custom shop pickup
I also have a Scott Ian Diablo that I still havent tried due to the fact that its too big for my pickup ring mount. I usually don't like alnico pickups for Thrash Metal, but I'm glad you told me your experiance with it!!! With the Pain Killer I had, I always adjust the pickup height to be at least 1mm away for the strings depressed at natural finger pressure against the frett board. The large ceramic magnet of the Sh6 does cause abit of oscillation, but not enough to annoy me.
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The large ceramic magnet of the Sh6 does cause abit of oscillation, but not enough to annoy me.
You're serious?????? :o
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I don't think you tweaked the pickups height if you had it for only 30 min
When you use BKP you got to know that the height makes a world of difference. You absolutly need to tinker with it.
On my RY bridge half a turn makes a world of difference. I just tinkered a bid with my bass side again and I feel that within a turn the bass qualitys vary between metal, hard rock and pop punk. Strenth, tightness and all is very dependant on the height.
When you get the Aftermath I advise you to basecally try just about everything from 4mm to 1mm.
Just donīt go to your fix point you are used to and leave it there or you will never see a fraction of the potential of the BKP!
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The large ceramic magnet of the Sh6 does cause abit of oscillation, but not enough to annoy me.
You're serious?????? :o
Yeah, on the wound strings. Most people don't notice unless I show them, and then it varies with different string brand
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I don't think you tweaked the pickups height if you had it for only 30 min
When you use BKP you got to know that the height makes a world of difference. You absolutly need to tinker with it.
On my RY bridge half a turn makes a world of difference. I just tinkered a bid with my bass side again and I feel that within a turn the bass qualitys vary between metal, hard rock and pop punk. Strenth, tightness and all is very dependant on the height.
When you get the Aftermath I advise you to basecally try just about everything from 4mm to 1mm.
Just donīt go to your fix point you are used to and leave it there or you will never see a fraction of the potential of the BKP!
OK! I will do! It hase three magents so I guess I have to approach it differently!
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I've got 3 aftermaths. They're great for very technical thrash (Coroner, Megadeth). It doesn't get much tighter. Personally my go-to for thrash like Slayer or Metallica would be a nailbomb.
As for vs the Distortion, I used distortions for years... here's the breakdown
Distortion : More high end, Less Mids
Aftermath : Smooth high end, Mid spike, crazy tight
You'll be happy with the Aftermath. If not, I'll take it :D
Ohh! I like the sound of your description of the Aftermath vs the Distortion!!!! But you say the nailbomb is the shitee for Slayer/Metallica style Thrash???? I mean, thats what we pretty much play, but I love the Scot Ian chunk too.
To me, the Nailbomb is the quintessential thrash pickup. It's warm, though.
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I've got 3 aftermaths. They're great for very technical thrash (Coroner, Megadeth). It doesn't get much tighter. Personally my go-to for thrash like Slayer or Metallica would be a nailbomb.
As for vs the Distortion, I used distortions for years... here's the breakdown
Distortion : More high end, Less Mids
Aftermath : Smooth high end, Mid spike, crazy tight
You'll be happy with the Aftermath. If not, I'll take it :D
Ohh! I like the sound of your description of the Aftermath vs the Distortion!!!! But you say the nailbomb is the shiteee for Slayer/Metallica style Thrash???? I mean, thats what we pretty much play, but I love the Scot Ian chunk too.
To me, the Nailbomb is the quintessential thrash pickup. It's warm, though.
The Nailbomb you say? Compare it to the SD duncan distortion and the Aftermath please!!!!
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The Nailbomb you say? Compare it to the SD duncan distortion and the Aftermath please!!!!
smoother, darker and a lot less middy than both, but still puts out a fair amount of midrange
it has darker upper mids, but the top end is very sizzly and cutting
tighter and much clearer than the SH-6, bassier than the aftermath
not as high ouput as the others, but still HOT and very aggressive for an alnico 5 pickup
not sure if I agree with Grim's statement, as for me, the nailbomb sounds more like 90's crossover thrash/hardcore than 80's thrash
maybe the ceramic nailbomb?
in the end, it all comes down to the player's hands, rig and amp settings
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24529.0
http://soundcloud.com/nolly/nailbomb-vs-aftermath
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Ok everyone. I know I was going to do a video comparing the Aftermath vs the SH-6, but I installed into my 1990 Gibson Explorer and even though it had superior clarity in the mids, it had about half the punch when palm muting in comparison of the SH-6, and less output, and then as I played songs with the Aftermath with my band, the sound was lost in our mix. The Duncans still reign supreme for our Thrash Metal, we play with mids on 8.
To me, the SH-6 had more mids, an ugly mid spike to be honest, but the Aftermath had nicer mids, and less of that spik, and sounded a little 'broader'. The Aftermath is reminicent of the PA TB 2 Parrallel Axis pickup but with more dynamics and less palm muted punch.
HOWEVER, it was very reminicant of the Scott Ian sound on the new Anthrax song 'Fight 'em till you cant'.
So reading this thread again, I've been told to look out for the ceramic Nailbomb is for Thrash Metal....
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Ok everyone. I know I was going to do a video comparing the Aftermath vs the SH-6, but I installed into my 1990 Gibson Explorer and even though it had superior clarity in the mids, it had about half the punch when palm muting in comparison of the SH-6, and less output, and then as I played songs with the Aftermath with my band, the sound was lost in our mix. The Duncans still reign supreme for our Thrash Metal, we play with mids on 8.
To me, the SH-6 had more mids, an ugly mid spike to be honest, but the Aftermath had nicer mids, and less of that spik, and sounded a little 'broader'. The Aftermath is reminicent of the PA TB 2 Parrallel Axis pickup but with more dynamics and less palm muted punch.
HOWEVER, it was very reminicant of the Scott Ian sound on the new Anthrax song 'Fight 'em till you cant'.
So reading this thread again, I've been told to look out for the ceramic Nailbomb is for Thrash Metal....
From your descriptions i would actually go with a miracle man as you seem to be wanting some low end chunk and aggression and that delivers both in spades.
If you find it doesnt ave enough mids just turn them up at the amp
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I have a calibrated set of ceramic nailbombs installed in my PRS SE and i love them. Though the band i play in covers a wide range of metal styles, at home i mostly play Metallica, Opeth, Inflames, Slayer, etc and for me it excels in all of that. Its also very flexible though and can play any style of music. Id describe the bridge ceramic pickup as being chunky, massive and very deep-it has lots of low mids rather than mid'mids if that makes sense lol and the palmmutes sound great, for my sound heavy palm-mutes and tightness was paramount and the ceramic nailbomb delivers
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It seems like you want more of everything. The pickup that delivers that is the Ceramic Warpig, it will blow the Sh6 to cinders and tear down your local church in the passtime.
If you want a hotter, punchier, grinding pickup. Then dont waste time with other pickups than this. It still retains all the other bkp qualities too.
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half the punch when palm muting in comparison of the SH-6, and less output
did you try the pickup as close as possible to the strings?
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I'm suprised the AM had less chunk and chugg than the duncans. I have just put in a nailbomb set and they completly own my duncan Custom 5, custom 8 ,alt 8 and dimebucker i've had in this guitar for chugg
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From your descriptions i would actually go with a miracle man as you seem to be wanting some low end chunk and aggression and that delivers both in spades.
If you find it doesnt ave enough mids just turn them up at the amp
I play with the mids on 8, and thats with the Duncan Distortion!!!! If the Nailbomb has less mids, like a Duncan Custom, what will I do?????
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I have a calibrated set of ceramic nailbombs installed in my PRS SE and i love them. Though the band i play in covers a wide range of metal styles, at home i mostly play Metallica, Opeth, Inflames, Slayer, etc and for me it excels in all of that. Its also very flexible though and can play any style of music. Id describe the bridge ceramic pickup as being chunky, massive and very deep-it has lots of low mids rather than mid'mids if that makes sense lol and the palmmutes sound great, for my sound heavy palm-mutes and tightness was paramount and the ceramic nailbomb delivers
Do you play through a Marshall? I play straight into a TSL100, no fx's.
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half the punch when palm muting in comparison of the SH-6, and less output
did you try the pickup as close as possible to the strings?
Yep. When depressing the two E's its 1mm under
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It seems like you want more of everything. The pickup that delivers that is the Ceramic Warpig, it will blow the Sh6 to cinders and tear down your local church in the passtime.
If you want a hotter, punchier, grinding pickup. Then dont waste time with other pickups than this. It still retains all the other bkp qualities too.
I'm kind of worried that the Ceramic Warpig, being heavy on the bass, will be too boomy for an all mahogany guitar like mine, like the way the SH8 Invader can be...
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I'm suprised the AM had less chunk and chugg than the duncans. I have just put in a nailbomb set and they completly own my duncan Custom 5, custom 8 ,alt 8 and dimebucker i've had in this guitar for chugg
And thats the thing, the SH6 Distortion completely blows the duncan Custom 5, custom 8 ,alt 8 and dimebucker when palm muting chugging. So is your Nailbomb ceramic????
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I'm not sure how old this thread is, but I'm adding input regardless! Merry Christmas by the way :)
being a Painkiller user for 4 years now, and with experience using the Warpig, Duncan Sh-6, and Duncan Sh-10 (full shred), maybe I can offer some insight from personal experience. I jumped on this forum because of my new found desire to try the aftermath. Of course, the Cbomb has always had my attention as has the MM.
I think, OP, that you might need to consider looking into higher end amplification. I mean, if you can't find incredible metal tones with the Painkiller or the Aftermath, and think that the Duncan D is somehow better... well, I dunno. I've owned the marshall amp you have, and it is not anything near what it should be. I play through a KT88 loaded Framus Cobra now, and its EVERYTHING it should be... and much much more. If you are addicted to the 2000, can I suggest you send if off to FJA Mods for the upgrade that amp needs to shine? Otherwise, sell all these pickups and start fresh with a new amp! Of course the Duncan D sounds good with that Marshall, they are both at the same mid grade level in the tone world. And that's fine, and even more so, maybe you should just stick with them! though, I feel that you might be looking for something in a pickup that you'll need to first find in a quality amp. And lastly, pickup height is HUGE the BKP's I've owned. Like the one djentleman stated, a half a turn on the adjustment screw is night and day.
As for the Aftermath, I'm looking for a little less high mids and a little more low mids, and perhaps a bit more tightness in the lower tunings (drop C to drop A). The Painkiller sounds fabulous, and I might just leave it be. But the AM has been callin' my name for months now..
lastly, have you tried the duncan full shred? its an incredible thrash metal pickup.. it has it all, and its alnico V. Just don't go below drop C# with it. People have no idea that the sh-10 is perhaps one of Duncan's finest achievements.
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lastly, have you tried the duncan full shred? its an incredible thrash metal pickup.. it has it all, and its alnico V. Just don't go below drop C# with it. People have no idea that the sh-10 is perhaps one of Duncan's finest achievements.
Why can't you go below C# with the Full Shred? :?
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I've had experience with:
- Duncan Invader
- Duncan JB
- EMG81
- PATB2
Recently, I bought an Aftermath, and now I'm considering buying more for other guitars as well. It's a completely different beast: don't expect any kind of "fizz", the aftermath is tight as hell, very dry and very unforgiving, but its midrange has a special quality to it, very musical and powerful. IMHO it's a great upgrade on any of pickups you've listed, if clarity and fast attack are what you're after.
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By the way, like the SH-6 than Painkiller is a heresy.
Seymour Duncan SH-6 = GARBAGE. IMO.
p
Man, your garbage might be someone else's gem. Not a huge SD fan myself but I can understand why so many peoples like the JB, and I can even understand why some people don't like BKPs.
(don't know zilch about neither SH-6 nor Aftermath FWIW).
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lastly, have you tried the duncan full shred? its an incredible thrash metal pickup.. it has it all, and its alnico V. Just don't go below drop C# with it. People have no idea that the sh-10 is perhaps one of Duncan's finest achievements.
Why can't you go below C# with the Full Shred? :?
well you can, and I'm sure it would sound good to some ears or with a real thin sounding amp. I think that for me, once I'm down in drop C or lower, its ceramic BKP time. Clarity and tightness.. the full shred has both, but because of the alnico V magnet, gets a little outtahand for me down below drop C# (or C# standard I guess).
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I've had experience with:
- Duncan Invader
- Duncan JB
- EMG81
- PATB2
Recently, I bought an Aftermath, and now I'm considering buying more for other guitars as well. It's a completely different beast: don't expect any kind of "fizz", the aftermath is tight as hell, very dry and very unforgiving, but its midrange has a special quality to it, very musical and powerful. IMHO it's a great upgrade on any of pickups you've listed, if clarity and fast attack are what you're after.
yeah man, I just have to get it and try it.. I know that it will have a home in at least a low tuning or two. I love the Painkiller! With the right rig and signal path, it can do anything.. even cleans. would you play the aftermath in standard or drop D tunings?
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I prefer the aftermath in Standard/Eb & D standard at the lowest.
I find it sounds cr@p in anything below that. But i also find tunings below that to sound cr@p also....
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I've had experience with:
- Duncan Invader
- Duncan JB
- EMG81
- PATB2
Recently, I bought an Aftermath, and now I'm considering buying more for other guitars as well. It's a completely different beast: don't expect any kind of "fizz", the aftermath is tight as hell, very dry and very unforgiving, but its midrange has a special quality to it, very musical and powerful. IMHO it's a great upgrade on any of pickups you've listed, if clarity and fast attack are what you're after.
yeah man, I just have to get it and try it.. I know that it will have a home in at least a low tuning or two. I love the Painkiller! With the right rig and signal path, it can do anything.. even cleans. would you play the aftermath in standard or drop D tunings?
Well, I use the aftermath in Drop D exclusively ;)
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lastly, have you tried the duncan full shred? its an incredible thrash metal pickup.. it has it all, and its alnico V. Just don't go below drop C# with it. People have no idea that the sh-10 is perhaps one of Duncan's finest achievements.
Why can't you go below C# with the Full Shred? :?
well you can, and I'm sure it would sound good to some ears or with a real thin sounding amp. I think that for me, once I'm down in drop C or lower, its ceramic BKP time. Clarity and tightness.. the full shred has both, but because of the alnico V magnet, gets a little outtahand for me down below drop C# (or C# standard I guess).
I've heard it in B standard and it rocked just fine......
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFjMGHuNpOg&sns=em
I think this new youtube video backs my case up pretty well, but it also makes wonder to buy a ceramic warpig and a sh8 invader too.............hmmmmmmmm
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with that you have to take into consideration that it is done with a modeller/profiler and it the original amp will have undoubtedly been set up for a specific guitar with a specific pickup.
This will greatly affect the results.
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As I play duncan distortions now and have been for 17 years, and having tried the painkiller, aftermath and a sh8, the video is pretty darn close. Though i play through a all valve Marshall TSL 100, and i hear what you're saying, my sound is far less compressed than that video, but it shows acurately the differences. I really like the warpig, i hope it was the ceramic one, and i like the tight unfuzzy mids of the sh8 invader and the warpig. I have to say that my only complaint of the sh6 duncan distortion over the years is that the mids a LITTLE fizzy instead of growly like I prefer. But i figured out to make a sh6 sound smililar to the mids of the painkiller, simpley by having the treble down 1 notch below where your presence is, at least in a marshall
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Sounds to me that you like the SH-6 as your tone.........don't let people on the internet influence you if that's your tone..........Ola Englund loves the Distortion and his tone owns.......but then again I am finally liking BKP's after sifting them thru several axes.......to me it's all about matching the right guitar with the right BKP........they can sound like cr@p with the wrong match just like any other pickup.......but when you pair one correctly it can be rewarding...... 8)
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to me it's all about matching the right guitar with the right BKP........
THen its all matching the right guitar with the right amp!
I used to love the cold sweat with my marshall TSL but when i got the SLO it was too thin and brash sounding.
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to me it's all about matching the right guitar with the right BKP........
THen its all matching the right guitar with the right amp!
I used to love the cold sweat with my marshall TSL but when i got the SLO it was too thin and brash sounding.
That's why I went Axe-FX almost 3 years ago and no longer have that problem. I can make any pickup/guitar sound decent with the Axe-FX.......some pickups do sound better though/as well as guitars......much better...... 8) :lol:
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Uhm, is it just me or did those clips sound 99% the same??? The pickups sounded almost identical. Trying to say one sounded better is to me a bit like saying Coca-Cola tastes better than Pepsi.
Which btw, as experiments have proven, are impossible to distinguish.
Only the "Death Metal" one was a bit more insightful, the Warpig had better tracking and cut better through the mix than the SH8... but then the Aftermatch and SH-6 sounded, again, like broootalzzzz!!!!
I blame the high gain on that. The tubescreamer and the Mesa model already impart so much of their own tone on the signal, if you compress it even more I think the majority of pickups will just sound the same on a recording.
Can't comment on the feel while playing, of course.
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Uhm, is it just me or did those clips sound 99% the same??? The pickups sounded almost identical. Trying to say one sounded better is to me a bit like saying Coca-Cola tastes better than Pepsi.
Which btw, as experiments have proven, are impossible to distinguish.
Only the "Death Metal" one was a bit more insightful, the Warpig had better tracking and cut better through the mix than the SH8... but then the Aftermatch and SH-6 sounded, again, like broootalzzzz!!!!
I blame the high gain on that. The tubescreamer and the Mesa model already impart so much of their own tone on the signal, if you compress it even more I think the majority of pickups will just sound the same on a recording.
Can't comment on the feel while playing, of course.
agreed. I think modelling/profiling amp the amp imposes allot more of the tone than the pick up does. 3 different pick ups sound completley differnt through my dual rec .
I think the warpig won his one though. there just this sound in the bottom end I love . its still a chugg more than a djent but it has a unique qualtiy . was the sealer in me buying one to try
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my speakers are awful, but I could notice the duncans are definitely harsher and fizzier
tonewise, all of them sounded almost the same
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I only listened to a little bit of the video. The Duncans immediately sounded squishier than the others, the Aftermath was obviously much crunchier and tighter - it's "squeaky" tight, a little more open sounding, and has a more tense, angry midrange, which squares with my experience. I suppose Keith didn't change the patch he was playing through, which is good for comparison but doesn't show you what can be done to settle in with each individual pickup; EQing before the amp, fiddling with compression, etc.
My money is on the Warpig being more detailed sounding than the non-BKP options. (I was immediately blown away after replacing an alnico EMG.) I suppose you should get the Pig if you like to chug and you like the impact of the picking sound and a thick tone, or get the Aftermath if you want more brightness and a tenser, tighter crunch. The Warpig (at least the ceramic one I have) is not at all loose sounding, but the Aftermath has this immediate, dry sound that plays and feels differently. Either would be good depending on your needs.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFjMGHuNpOg&sns=em
I think this new youtube video backs my case up pretty well, but it also makes wonder to buy a ceramic warpig and a sh8 invader too.............hmmmmmmmm
Dat distortion :O
I need one again.. asap!!!
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Awesome vid comparison, I play thrash, death, Hell I've devised Djent for 20+ years with amp settings, I fear I may have invented it...lol. I have a greatly varying taste in music with broad palettes of talent to my ears. From merely listening to this you tube vid you have prescribed, I can immediately recognize resonance and frequency graphs by hearing. They all have different combos of qualities, for instance: The seymour duncans have a slightly higher open static noise level less notable in the sh8 as its lower resonance and darker sound subdues this noise. The BK Pickups share none of this noise attribute. The static is musical and endears many as a warm kind of fizz in the ear. This fizz has a constant frequency and does not change acting like another note blended in. This is noise. Fizz from the notes in a pickup will change with that note but this fizz generated by noise does not and is a byproduct of the pickup. This would greatly be amplified and augmented coming through live stage settings. I have identified and studied the differences of each pickup and the list is too far expanse for this post. But yes immediately I hear all kinds of differences and nuances and even influence in the player imposed by the pickups feel and sound character even though this player is very consistant thank you so much for finding such a great comparison. :P
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I never hear a lot of difference on those high gain tones, I hear most difference on clean, low to mid gain, and higher gain just before it goes into saturation.
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I only listened to a little bit of the video. The Duncans immediately sounded squishier than the others, the Aftermath was obviously much crunchier and tighter - it's "squeaky" tight, a little more open sounding, and has a more tense, angry midrange, which squares with my experience. I suppose Keith didn't change the patch he was playing through, which is good for comparison but doesn't show you what can be done to settle in with each individual pickup; EQing before the amp, fiddling with compression, etc.
My money is on the Warpig being more detailed sounding than the non-BKP options. (I was immediately blown away after replacing an alnico EMG.) I suppose you should get the Pig if you like to chug and you like the impact of the picking sound and a thick tone, or get the Aftermath if you want more brightness and a tenser, tighter crunch. The Warpig (at least the ceramic one I have) is not at all loose sounding, but the Aftermath has this immediate, dry sound that plays and feels differently. Either would be good depending on your needs.
I tried the aftermath and painkiller and both didnt have the guts and chunk of the sh6 and that is prevelant in that video, the aftermath is definately for tuned down jumpy jumpy bands and not what I need for Thrash Metal, but that warpig has definatly impresed me like mid point between the sh8 and the sh6
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Awesome vid comparison, I play thrash, death, Hell I've devised Djent for 20+ years with amp settings, I fear I may have invented it...lol. I have a greatly varying taste in music with broad palettes of talent to my ears. From merely listening to this you tube vid you have prescribed, I can immediately recognize resonance and frequency graphs by hearing. They all have different combos of qualities, for instance: The seymour duncans have a slightly higher open static noise level less notable in the sh8 as its lower resonance and darker sound subdues this noise. The BK Pickups share none of this noise attribute. The static is musical and endears many as a warm kind of fizz in the ear. This fizz has a constant frequency and does not change acting like another note blended in. This is noise. Fizz from the notes in a pickup will change with that note but this fizz generated by noise does not and is a byproduct of the pickup. This would greatly be amplified and augmented coming through live stage settings. I have identified and studied the differences of each pickup and the list is too far expanse for this post. But yes immediately I hear all kinds of differences and nuances and even influence in the player imposed by the pickups feel and sound character even though this player is very consistant thank you so much for finding such a great comparison. :P
You've raised a very interesting point, in my experiance over the years of playing the Sh6, although there are many things I like about it, my pet peeeve and why I'm trying to find a BKP that wil ultimately replace the sh6 is that the sh6 needs more growl and when doing the typical sliding chords of Thrash Metal, it seems NOT to track as well as I'd like. It plam mutes, plays notey riffs and chord fuller and better than the BKP's but looses tracking fast changing riffs, and the wrapig seems NOT to have that problem...... So I'm very curious
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Try out a ceramic warpig as i said earlier :)
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Try out a ceramic warpig as i said earlier :)
I hope so!!!! Anyone here have C-Pig and run straight into a Marshall with NO pedals????
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Try out a ceramic warpig as i said earlier :)
I hope so!!!! Anyone here have C-Pig and run straight into a Marshall with NO pedals????
No but I'm thinking of giving it a go.
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Nothing wrong with liking the SH-6 if that's your cup of tea.
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get a tubescreamer :P I dont like the JVM mainly because of its voicing. And i dont think the c-pig will like it too much either without a boost.
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get a tubescreamer :P I dont like the JVM mainly because of its voicing. And i dont think the c-pig will like it too much either without a boost.
Well, as a Marshall fan, I DON'T like the JVm either, too freaking glassy sounding, thats why I've stuck to the TSL100 JCM2000.
I just bought a SH8 Invader and it was interesting, too muddy for the Black V, so I placed it in my brighter and jangly natural V and its perfect. SOOOO, I'm pretty sure I will try a Ceramic Warpig, cause I don't use booster pedals....BBBUUUUTTTT I need the SAME EQ curve and resonant peak of the SH6, so I have heard the new vids from BKP, I like the Ceramic Nailbomb, and I like the Painkiller but it needs more palm muted punch and it would be the shite!!!
I wonder if I order a Painkiller and ask tim if he could wind it to 16.4K, the same a a SH6, will it be the punch I want????
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I wonder if I order a Painkiller and ask tim if he could wind it to 16.4K, the same a a SH6, will it be the punch I want????
You could ask, but I don't think BKP are doing as many "bespoke" orders as they used to. I think they're busier than they used to be and Tim is taking the view that there's a range of pickups, he's voiced them a certain way and he doesn't want to mess about with alternative magnets, different winds etc unless they're within the existing options.
(Apologies if that's putting words in Tim's mouth and I've got it wrong!)
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Just read all 5 pages of this thread and the ceramic Warpig was one of the options I thought of from the start while I was never convinced you'd like the Aftermath. The other one I think you'll like is the alnico Nailbomb. I know you said you usually go ceramic, which is the obvious thing for Thrash, but you'd be amazed at how tight and aggressive the A-Bomb is. I honestly think you'd be impressed.
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Just read all 5 pages of this thread and the ceramic Warpig was one of the options I thought of from the start while I was never convinced you'd like the Aftermath. The other one I think you'll like is the alnico Nailbomb. I know you said you usually go ceramic, which is the obvious thing for Thrash, but you'd be amazed at how tight and aggressive the A-Bomb is. I honestly think you'd be impressed.
I hear what your saying, I noticed the cool tone the A-bomb has compared to the C-Bomb on the new BKP instruction Videos..... I guess that your saying that whether A-bomb or C-Bomb, these pickups are BETTER suited for a warm sound all mahogany guitar with ebony for THRASH , like Slayer cross Anthrax, better that the Painkiller or the C-pig ?????? In that video done by Keith I noticed that the C-Pig did NOT have that muddy bottom of the Invader, and I need upper mid spike for the growl and pick attach, low mids for the palm muted punching the front end of the amp. :?
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I wonder if I order a Painkiller and ask tim if he could wind it to 16.4K, the same a a SH6, will it be the punch I want????
DC resistance of a pickup gives little or no indication of how it's going to sound. While it may give a clue as to the number of windings and hence voltage output, it tells you nothing about frequency response or tone. DC resistance doesn't equal AC resistance and AC resistance doesn't stay the same at all frequencies. And unless your amp's seriously malfunctioning, there'll never be any significant DC running through your pickups.
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In that video done by Keith I noticed that the C-Pig did NOT have that muddy bottom of the Invader.
I do actually think that its a Alnico V Warpig he uses in that video.
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And that's exactly my point. I suspect that like many others who visit this forum (the OP sounds like one too) I assumed that I would need a ceramic set to keep the articulation in the bass, especially if using a lot of gain. This is why my first set was Cold Sweats and it was a real push when I made my first switch to Alnico V. That first attempt was my ill-fated dalliance with Nailbombs and I was really surprised to find that they were a hell of a lot tighter than the vast majority of ceramic pickups from other manufacturers. Even as Alnico V, they were far tighter and more aggressive than I wanted but I said at the time and maintain now that they would be great in a mahogany guitar doing the kind of music favoured by the OP. The same thing is happening in that video. It's so articulate that you naturally assume it's ceramic when in fact it's not. If I were to go back to DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan I'd return to ceramic but while I use BKP, I doubt I'll ever use ceramic again. Why would I want to? Alnico V Bare Knuckles offer at least as much articulation and tightness as other peoples ceramics but you gain great cleans and a really sweet lead tone.
I stress this is MY experience and I am in no way suggesting that all those using ceramic Bare Knuckles are wrong. I am merely suggesting that there are probably a number of people who may not consider an alnico pickup because based on their experience with other manufacturers, they can't believe what an alnico Bare Knuckle can do.
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And that's exactly my point. I suspect that like many others who visit this forum (the OP sounds like one too) I assumed that I would need a ceramic set to keep the articulation in the bass, especially if using a lot of gain. This is why my first set was Cold Sweats and it was a real push when I made my first switch to Alnico V. That first attempt was my ill-fated dalliance with Nailbombs and I was really surprised to find that they were a hell of a lot tighter than the vast majority of ceramic pickups from other manufacturers. Even as Alnico V, they were far tighter and more aggressive than I wanted but I said at the time and maintain now that they would be great in a mahogany guitar doing the kind of music favoured by the OP. The same thing is happening in that video. It's so articulate that you naturally assume it's ceramic when in fact it's not. If I were to go back to DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan I'd return to ceramic but while I use BKP, I doubt I'll ever use ceramic again. Why would I want to? Alnico V Bare Knuckles offer at least as much articulation and tightness as other peoples ceramics but you gain great cleans and a really sweet lead tone.
I stress this is MY experience and I am in no way suggesting that all those using ceramic Bare Knuckles are wrong. I am merely suggesting that there are probably a number of people who may not consider an alnico pickup because based on their experience with other manufacturers, they can't believe what an alnico Bare Knuckle can do.
Far out, I'll have to go and listen to that video heaps more....
I also notice that everyone here has said the Nailbomb is perfect for Thrash Metal, and NOT the Painkiller. I have one question though, does the Nailbomb with its EQ curve sound anything like a Duncan Custom???? I hope not, all I really need is a Duncan Disotion sound with more growl and Mids clarity, which is why I think the Painkiller would be the way to go.....I'm soooo confused :(
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I thrash out with the Painkiller in a Les Paul. Though, I switched all the pots out for the 550k pots, and added the PIO caps, with the vintage wiring specs. Honestly, I believe almost any pickup can do it. Its all about what you got, and how you use it I suppose. I really dig the PK. I am interested in WarPig, as well as the Aftermath. It would be awesome if there was some way to make a pickup combination of the Painkiller and Warpig, I think someone coined the word; PigKiller
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Why dont you just keep the distortions? I Love my x2n, and no BKP can replace that in that guitar. Why fix something's theres not broken?
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Why dont you just keep the distortions? I Love my x2n, and no BKP can replace that in that guitar. Why fix something's theres not broken?
I also agree with this statement. If you like the Distortion, keep using it.
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Why don't you just keep the distortions? I Love my x2n, and no BKP can replace that in that guitar. Why fix something's theres not broken?
It's just that I have tried every Duncan, and few Dimarzios and the PK and the Aftermath, and I keep coming back to the Duncan distortion, BUT it lacks that extra clarity in the mids and my frustration is like getting close to the finish line but just doesn't quite make it.
It actually has a little bit more output than an Invader, but is little fuzzy in the tracking, and its that which I hate about it. I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get a Ceramic Nailbomb as according to that video has amazing clarity in the mids tracking....
Maybe its my Tubes in my amp too, I currently run Mullard reissue EL34's, which are very reliable, but I remember using the Svetlana EL34's which have a stronger mid range and that might do the trick as well.l....
This never ends......
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The Aftermath i find to have a smaller bass response than the other BKP pups i have-as in it gives the impression of being tighter because it doesnt accentuate that frequency as much (almost like when you put a TS in front of your amp). Hence i feel you are missing some of the bottom end chunk-the CBomb would deffinetely give you this, i love it and i think it does thrash with ease. The Warpig may also be worth a shot though it may not have enough of a mid spike? i dont know. Good luck!
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I will never like El34's. Im a 6L6 man. through and through.
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I will never like El34's. Im a 6L6 man. through and through.
6L6's great for Boogie type amps, not Marshalls.... :)
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The Aftermath i find to have a smaller bass response than the other BKP pups i have-as in it gives the impression of being tighter because it doesnt accentuate that frequency as much (almost like when you put a TS in front of your amp). Hence i feel you are missing some of the bottom end chunk-the CBomb would deffinetely give you this, i love it and i think it does thrash with ease. The Warpig may also be worth a shot though it may not have enough of a mid spike? i dont know. Good luck!
THATS IT! You've convinced me... the CERAMIC NAILBOMB it is!!!! I'm ordering one dammit. I remember the PainKiller having hollow low mids and hating it as not my thing. I will do another sound comparison recording with the Sh6 and the Nailbomb
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You mentioned that your V guitar is not as dark sounding as an LP-so has more mids less bass than an LP. Is your guitar mahogany neck also? I will give you the lowdown of my guitars so you can see how different pickups react to them (all of them played in standard and drop D):
PRS SE Custom 24: Mahogany body, set in maple neck, rosewood fingerboard (Ceramic Nailbomb) - Plenty of chunk, mid/lowmid dark blend, good treble response but not overbearing.
PRS SE Tremonti:Mahogany body, set in mahogany neck, rosewood fingerboard (Cold Sweat)- Pleeenty of chunk (more so than the nailbomb, probably due to the mahogany neck), more clarity, more mid/treble bite
Schecter Omen Extreme 6: Mahogany Body, Bolt on maple neck, rosewood fingerboard (Aftermath)- The most 'Boxy' sounding, has emphasis on high mids/ treble but hasnt got as much chunk as the other two, clear and tight though but also has the most amount of compression (almost squishy).
So a combination of body wood, neck join and neck wood changes everything-what are the exact specs of your guitar? Also you already play with cranked mids and treble, do you want your guitar to emphasize these frequencies? tame them?
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put some 6550s in your JCM900, trust me, that'll do it. Svetlana ones are my faves.
also, if you have Chinese ECC83s (12AX7s) in the preamp, try messing around with some Mullard or Brimar ones, I promise you it'll sound clearer in the mids - not so fuzzy.
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You mentioned that your V guitar is not as dark sounding as an LP-so has more mids less bass than an LP. Is your guitar mahogany neck also? I will give you the lowdown of my guitars so you can see how different pickups react to them (all of them played in standard and drop D):
PRS SE Custom 24: Mahogany body, set in maple neck, rosewood fingerboard (Ceramic Nailbomb) - Plenty of chunk, mid/lowmid dark blend, good treble response but not overbearing.
PRS SE Tremonti:Mahogany body, set in mahogany neck, rosewood fingerboard (Cold Sweat)- Pleeenty of chunk (more so than the nailbomb, probably due to the mahogany neck), more clarity, more mid/treble bite
Schecter Omen Extreme 6: Mahogany Body, Bolt on maple neck, rosewood fingerboard (Aftermath)- The most 'Boxy' sounding, has emphasis on high mids/ treble but hasnt got as much chunk as the other two, clear and tight though but also has the most amount of compression (almost squishy).
So a combination of body wood, neck join and neck wood changes everything-what are the exact specs of your guitar? Also you already play with cranked mids and treble, do you want your guitar to emphasize these frequencies? tame them?
Its a set neck all Brazillian Mahogany body and neck with Ebony frett board. Actually, in sound, its very much like a les paul custom, dark but has this very high end bite. String through the body too. Very fat sounding guitar
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put some 6550s in your JCM900, trust me, that'll do it. Svetlana ones are my faves.
also, if you have Chinese ECC83s (12AX7s) in the preamp, try messing around with some Mullard or Brimar ones, I promise you it'll sound clearer in the mids - not so fuzzy.
I actually own a JCM2000 TSL100, totally different machine to the JCM900's, (which I used own the 4500 and the 4100 in the 90's). The tubes I use are Mullard EL34's and Tung-sol 12ax7, which have been rated and the best of the 12ax7s
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You know what? I think I'll quit guitar and learn drums ...... :P
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Well then i would say either Cbomb, Alnico Nailbomb or the Cold Sweat. The Cold Sweat will give you more bite while still having enough balls, the Nailboms will be not as 'bitey' but still give you plenty of chunk :-)
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Well then i would say either Cbomb, Alnico Nailbomb or the Cold Sweat. The Cold Sweat will give you more bite while still having enough balls, the Nailboms will be not as 'bitey' but still give you plenty of chunk :-)
I'm not looking for more bite, so the C-bomb is what I'm going to start with, though I like the sound of the Alnico Bomb too........... But I have also been made aware of the WCR Iron Man, and heard a few clips and have been told that it eats the C-bomb for breakfast..... :tfrag:
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But I have also been made aware of the WCR Iron Man, and heard a few clips and have been told that it eats the C-bomb for breakfast..... :tfrag:
Doubtful, for there isn't a superior pickup. Its only a matter of personal taste. BK's are good, Duncans are good, ect. Its a matter of personal taste. They are all awesome, just having different characteristics. To say that one pickup will eat another for break-fast is a biased statement.
Any proper guitar, with the right set up, quality pickups, and a good rig will destroy in the right hands, not matter what.
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But I have also been made aware of the WCR Iron Man, and heard a few clips and have been told that it eats the C-bomb for breakfast..... :tfrag:
Doubtful, for there isn't a superior pickup. Its only a matter of personal taste. BK's are good, Duncans are good, ect. Its a matter of personal taste. They are all awesome, just having different characteristics. To say that one pickup will eat another for break-fast is a biased statement.
Any proper guitar, with the right set up, quality pickups, and a good rig will destroy in the right hands, not matter what.
Have you heard an Iron Man by any chance?????
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Have you heard an Iron Man by any chance?????
No, but most of his other offerings. Except for the Crossroads they all had a distinctive midrange hump (Darkburst, Godwood, Fillmore, Herc) - like the Duane Allman tone built in permanently. Which is good, except when you want to play something different. The most obvious difference between the models was the output level. So unless the Iron Man is voiced differently than his mainstay of pickups I believe the C-Bomb would be better suited to metal.
Cheers Stephan
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Go for the CBomb man :-)
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No, but most of his other offerings. Except for the Crossroads they all had a distinctive midrange hump (Darkburst, Godwood, Fillmore, Herc) - like the Duane Allman tone built in permanently. Which is good, except when you want to play something different. The most obvious difference between the models was the output level. So unless the Iron Man is voiced differently than his mainstay of pickups I believe the C-Bomb would be better suited to metal.
Interesting.... I wonder how they all have a similar midrange character when presumably they use different magnets, wire etc? Unless they're all basically over- or under-wound versions of the same pickup.
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have been told that it eats the C-bomb for breakfast..... :tfrag:
Typical forum bullshitee.
And a BMW is better than a Mercedes and Chelsea eats Arsenal for breakfast.
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Interesting.... I wonder how they all have a similar midrange character when presumably they use different magnets, wire etc? Unless they're all basically over- or under-wound versions of the same pickup.
As far as I know, Darkbursts and the older Goodwoods used the same wire whereas Fillmore and Herc (which is no longer offered) have/had thinner wire, as does the newer Godwood. But this is only from forum descriptions - I have not asked Jim personally. But my description of their tones is from personal experience, and in more than just one guitar each.
Cheers Stephan
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I had a strong GAS for the godwood... then I ordered my custom riff raff and forgot about it completely PDT_003
I also bought a WCR herc for $50 on ebay, but got scammed by some lying studio douchebag :grrr: