Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: dragonfire709 on August 24, 2011, 02:05:52 PM
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I've been trying to repress it for a while, but its official-I have Les Paul Gas. I have always wanted one, but never been in a band where an LP would really suit. Now my covers band is starting to pick up a fair amount of gigs I reckon I can justify another guitar.
I've been doing a bit of research and due to the use/types of venues we play and the fact that Gibsons dont seem to be as good as they used to be, I'm going to go down the Japanese route. There was a lovely Tokai on Ebay with a beaut of a quilted top, but that finished early :(.
My real question is which of the big 3 (Tokai, Burny or Orville) should I concentrate on hunting down?
Cheers
Roy
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Even though I dont need to spam it, as he's paid me, Juansolo's Edwards is really nice.
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25325.0
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Well, don't rule out Greco or Edwards. Or if you have the money, Bacchus or Navigator.
If you're looking for a new guitar, reasonably priced, MIJ Tokais are probably the best in current production (IMO). The Burny name has resurfaced recently but I think the current ones are built in China(?) - they're lower priced than Tokais, certainly.
With older models, it's all very confusing because different brands were made at the same factory, or one brand was made at different factories (e.g. Burny were made by Fernandes, Orville were made at Fujigen and Terada, I think some were even made by Tokai). And then (as now) they made lots of similar-looking models at different price points.
So, I don't think one brand is better than another really - but some guitars have better specs than others. Research all you can!
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buy an older Gibson, the early 90s ones are great - my Les Paul is a '91 (or '90, can never remember which) and is great. also played other 90s Gibsons that were spot on.
you'll still get the 90s ones for sensible money and if you get a '91, you already have a 20-year old vintage instrument :lol:
mind you, this 1990 Orville LP Custom for £400 is worthy of serious consideration... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORVILLE-Gibson-MIJ-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-Guitar-1990-/220837425529?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item336aefb179#ht_17017wt_1139
this one might be worth the extra if the lass in the picture comes with the guitar... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-Les-Paul-1958-Custom-Shop-/120765151205?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1c1e29f7e5#ht_500wt_1156 :lol:
and a '93 Standard which looks in tasty condition... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GIBSON-LES-PAUL-STANDARD-1993-/250878429270?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3a69850856#ht_500wt_1156
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I just bought an Edwards John Sykes model Les Paul from Richtone Music in Sheffield. Good service.
The guitar itself is quite nice, definitely great value for money, but I'm not selling my Gibsons to buy more Edwards, if you know what I mean. She's definitely a step above Epiphone, but she isn't in the league of my Standards (a 93 and 00 or thereabouts)
Still, if it's a more affordable LP you're after, I definitely recommend Edwards. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one of their V's as well.
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^ yeah, i'd agree, regarding edwardses. I'd take one sight-unseen over a gibson sight-unseen, because of the better qc, but if you can pick through a bunch of gibsons to get a "good" gibson, then you could probably do better with a "good" gibson.
Also the usual "they're not 100% made in japan" comment applies. The (2!) edwardses I've tried didn't/don't seem to have quite the mojo of some of the other MIJs- whether that's because they're not MIJ, or it's merely psychological, I don't know. However, I should point out that I thought that when I thought they were 100% MIJ, so how much is psychological, I don't know.
I have tried tokais which i'd take over any gibsons i've tried (not tried the custom shop ones, i mean the standard production US gibsons). And as far as i'm aware, they are 100% MIJ (well, the japanese-made ones, anyway, there are cheaper non-MIJ ones).
What philly's saying is worth paying attention to- while I haven't tried the others like burny or greco etc., a lot of the time they're made in the same factory, so it might boil down to which you can get a hold of most easily.
Also his warning about different models at vastly different prices looking very similar is worth paying attention to, as well. While even the cheapest MIJs are still good guitars by any stretch of the imagination, you don't want to be paying $1500 for something which is worth $500. Obviously :lol:
And any time a seller isn't sure of the model, they usually conveniently seem to assume that it's one of the dear ones... :roll: :lol:
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I would look at used LP Classics from the nineties and change the (ceramic) pickups.
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I'd forgotten about Greco and Edwards-will add them to my search. I had spied the black Orville, and originally had decided on a black custom, but I havke seen some Tokai 'Standards' with some lovely tops which changed my mind-like this one;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300590009252?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1022wt_932 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300590009252?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1022wt_932)
I cant go too mad, so my budget is around the £500 mark, which probably rules out any Gibson, but the wife is (surprisingly) encouraging me so may be able to up that a wee bit. Maybe I'll need to thin out my collection a bit!!
Cheers guys
Roy
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If you can find one, try grabbing a "Signature" Les Paul. I used to own one, and PhillyQ now has one, and they're superb for the money. They're around £350 if you can find one, made in Japan, and real "sleepers".
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If you can find one, try grabbing a "Signature" Les Paul. I used to own one, and PhillyQ now has one, and they're superb for the money. They're around £350 if you can find one, made in Japan, and real "sleepers".
Yeah, they are really good - made as a limited run for Tanglewood, built at the Fujigen factory (like some Orville/Orville by Gibson models and Japanese Epiphones).
The only trouble is finding them on eBay - put "Signature" in the search and you'll get far too many results! :lol:
I think Brow mentioned there are one or two NOS ones at his local guitar shop.
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the tokai's that replicate the construction of the late 50's lp's are the range LS135 and up.the 150's are available
but about £1200. (i don't know about the vintage 'reborn' tokai's).i think they're v.good value and don't care what's written on the headstock.
i'm not sure you'd find a second hand one less than about 750 though.
the lower range (100ls down) aren't made like a traditional lp but then again neither are the cheaper gibbo's.
tokai's have fat necks, edwards thinner.the edwards maybe better value as they not as well known as tokai ,haven't looked into how they're made though.the ones for about 800quid are probably great.
richtone's a good starting point for sussing out the ranges/specs/prices of both brands.
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i'd be looking closely at jaunsolo's edwards in 'seconds out' if i were you!
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(a) the lower range (100ls down) aren't made like a traditional lp but then again neither are the cheaper gibbo's.
(b) the edwards maybe better value as they not as well known as tokai ,haven't looked into how they're made though.the ones for about 800quid are probably great.
richtone's a good starting point for sussing out the ranges/specs/prices of both brands.
(a) yeah, exactly. While I'm not saying for a second that the cheapest MIJ Tokais are completely vintage accurate, they're at least as accurate as the gibsons at a similar price. It always mystifies me when people say the MIJs aren't accurate to Gibson specs and then advise going for a cheap gibson instead. Because they are? :lol:
(b) i'm honestly not convinced edwardses are worth £800 (richtone has some offers on at the moment, though, but not on any LPs iirc). When I got mine, they were more like £400-£500, because of the weak yen, and that's about right, if you ask me. A bit cheaper than the MIJ Tokais, and with name-brand pickups, but not 100% MIJ, sounds about right. £200 more than the MIJ Tokais? If you ask me the MIJ tokais (or maybe even those signatures, if you can find NOS ones around the £400 mark) are probably better value when they're cheaper than the edwardses.
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I paid mine 800 euro. Now that I have her set up with my regular strings, I'd say she's definitely worth it.
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Thanks all the words of wisdom-thats given me a lot to look at. What is the deal with the Gibson Classics? Although I'm not a name snob, it would be nice to have Gibson on the headstock!
I have being eyeing up juansolo's. it looks like a good'un, but dont know if I can free up that kind of cash at the mo.
Cheers
Roy
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or if you want something more upmarket try one of mine
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/Lions-blacknred.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/philgc3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/purplebursttiger1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/Feline%20Lion%20Special/FelineLionSpecialbacklit726.jpg)
Much easier neck access and already loaded with BKPs
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/neckjoint002.jpg)
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I paid mine 800 euro. Now that I have her set up with my regular strings, I'd say she's definitely worth it.
ah i kinda put my foot in it there :lol: :oops: I wasn't trying to suggest that yours wasn't worth it, as that's kinda the going rate at the moment.
Plus at the current exchange rate 800 euro is probably more like 700 quid... :)
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or if you want something more upmarket try one of mine
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/Lions-blacknred.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/philgc3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/purplebursttiger1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/Feline%20Lion%20Special/FelineLionSpecialbacklit726.jpg)
Much easier neck access and already loaded with BKPs
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/neckjoint002.jpg)
Jonathan, I'd love one of yours-one day i will!!
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i'm honestly not convinced edwardses are worth £800 (richtone has some offers on at the moment, though, but not on any LPs iirc). When I got mine, they were more like £400-£500, because of the weak yen, and that's about right, if you ask me. A bit cheaper than the MIJ Tokais, and with name-brand pickups, but not 100% MIJ, sounds about right. £200 more than the MIJ Tokais? If you ask me the MIJ tokais (or maybe even those signatures, if you can find NOS ones around the £400 mark) are probably better value when they're cheaper than the edwardses.
Yeah, I think they're currently overpriced. I'm having trouble selling mine for £500 and it's £750 at Rich Tone. :(
The high-end Tokais are really pricey too, though - £1,500 for a "copy". Great guitars, but don't expect to make your money back if you decide to sell!!
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Thanks all the words of wisdom-thats given me a lot to look at. What is the deal with the Gibson Classics? Although I'm not a name snob, it would be nice to have Gibson on the headstock!
They're proper Les Pauls, no catches or corner-cutting that I'm aware of. The only odd thing about them is that they have high output ceramic pickups (500T and 496R, I think).
They have skinny "slim-taper" '60s necks, and they're easy to spot because the inlays are a yellowish (rather than whitish) pearl colour. They also have "1960" on the scratchplate. For example:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/9334fa.jpg)
I think the model has now been renamed the Les Paul Traditional 1960. Don't think it has the yellow inlays any more.
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Yeah, I think they're currently overpriced. I'm having trouble selling mine for £500 and it's £750 at Rich Tone. :(
The high-end Tokais are really pricey too, though - £1,500 for a "copy". Great guitars, but don't expect to make your money back if you decide to sell!!
yeah, the tokais have gone up too, problem with the strong yen. But there are still some tokais at reasonable prices (maybe just old stock? :?), for example, i seem to remember when i got my edwards, the edwards was around £400-£500, while the cheapest MIJ tokai LP standards and SGs were maybe £550 or so (or was it £499? I can't remember :oops: ), and now you can still pick up the LP standards and SGs for £600-£650, while the edwardses (apart from the ones richtone has on sale) are the guts of £800.
At the same time, I've seen tokai mij juniors for like £800, which is also verging on crazy. Don't get me wrong... I don't buy the line that there's no point in buying a tokai if you can afford the gibson variant, because a lot of the time I prefer the tokai versions. But at the same time, when something was going for £400 a couple of years ago and now it's £800... it's not as good value as it was.
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At the same time, I've seen tokai mij juniors for like £800, which is also verging on crazy. Don't get me wrong... I don't buy the line that there's no point in buying a tokai if you can afford the gibson variant, because a lot of the time I prefer the tokai versions. But at the same time, when something was going for £400 a couple of years ago and now it's £800... it's not as good value as it was.
Yeah, the singlecut Juniors they have look great, I get massive GAS when I see them but not at that price.... and I know they won't be any better than the ones I've got.
Someone sold a sunburst Tokai Jr on eBay this week, great condition with upgraded pickup and electronics, he only got £286 for it. That's gotta hurt. :(
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That's not selling, that's just a present.
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i'm honestly not convinced edwardses are worth £800 (richtone has some offers on at the moment, though, but not on any LPs iirc). When I got mine, they were more like £400-£500, because of the weak yen, and that's about right, if you ask me. A bit cheaper than the MIJ Tokais, and with name-brand pickups, but not 100% MIJ, sounds about right. £200 more than the MIJ Tokais? If you ask me the MIJ tokais (or maybe even those signatures, if you can find NOS ones around the £400 mark) are probably better value when they're cheaper than the edwardses.
Yeah, I think they're currently overpriced. I'm having trouble selling mine for £500 and it's £750 at Rich Tone. :(
The high-end Tokais are really pricey too, though - £1,500 for a "copy". Great guitars, but don't expect to make your money back if you decide to sell!!
FWIW the only reason mine's listed at £700 is that it's got £200 worth of Mules in it. I've got about 20 watchers on the thing and no bugger is bidding. *shrugs* We'll see what the market says on Saturday.
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Plus at the current exchange rate 800 euro is probably more like 700 quid... :)
Yep, 699 plus shipping.
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I can also say, that my LP GAS is through the roof at the moment.
I had this really, really cool Greco "Black Beauty" copy that I miss terribly, and badly regret selling.
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Thanks all the words of wisdom-thats given me a lot to look at. What is the deal with the Gibson Classics? Although I'm not a name snob, it would be nice to have Gibson on the headstock!
They're proper Les Pauls, no catches or corner-cutting that I'm aware of. The only odd thing about them is that they have high output ceramic pickups (500T and 496R, I think).
They have skinny "slim-taper" '60s necks, and they're easy to spot because the inlays are a yellowish (rather than whitish) pearl colour. They also have "1960" on the scratchplate. For example:
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/9334fa.jpg)
I think the model has now been renamed the Les Paul Traditional 1960. Don't think it has the yellow inlays any more.
Aaaaah-I remember Tracii Guns being pictured with one of those in an old (early to mid 90's) Guitarist. If they're ok for Tracii then they're ok for me.
I really like the look of yours, Juan. It looks lovely. I'll show it to the missus tonight and see if she agrees :)!
Cheers
Roy
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I really like the look of yours, Juan. It looks lovely. I'll show it to the missus tonight and see if she agrees :) !
:oops:
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Just read that back-not quite what i meant! :lol:
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Yeah, the singlecut Juniors they have look great, I get massive GAS when I see them but not at that price.... and I know they won't be any better than the ones I've got.
Someone sold a sunburst Tokai Jr on eBay this week, great condition with upgraded pickup and electronics, he only got £286 for it. That's gotta hurt. :(
yeah i remember trying a doublecut junior when it was about £400. Very nice. Sorta kicking myself now. :lol: Also I missed a couple a shop was selling on ebay which went for around the £300 mark a while back... they had two on, finishing at the same time, and I was scared of ending up with both and ended up with neither :lol: Funnily enough, if i remember correctly, the same ebayer bought both!
Had I known the way the prices were going to go I'd have definitely tried harder to get them.
Plus at the current exchange rate 800 euro is probably more like 700 quid... :)
Yep, 699 plus shipping.
:)
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Thanks all the words of wisdom-thats given me a lot to look at. What is the deal with the Gibson Classics? Although I'm not a name snob, it would be nice to have Gibson on the headstock!
They're proper Les Pauls, no catches or corner-cutting that I'm aware of. The only odd thing about them is that they have high output ceramic pickups (500T and 496R, I think).
They have skinny "slim-taper" '60s necks, and they're easy to spot because the inlays are a yellowish (rather than whitish) pearl colour.
I think the model has now been renamed the Les Paul Traditional 1960. Don't think it has the yellow inlays any more.
I'm pretty sure they're distinct guitars. The Traditional is what the Standard was in 2007, when they introduced the chambered, Tone Pros bridge, locking tuners version of the Standard, they kept making the old one and renamed it Traditional.
The Classic was a slightly lower end guitar, with the aged inlays and the daft "1960" scratchplate. Not sure exactly how it was lower end, but they were a couple hundred quid cheaper than the Standard (back when the Standard was £1200 anyway).
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I think there are two "Traditional" models now - the "Traditional" itself is, as you say, the pre-2008 spec with '50s neck and '57 Classics.
The "Traditional 1960" is similar but has the '60s neck, uncovered '57 Classics and the "1960" scratchplate - so it's the nearest thing in the current line to the Classic. When I said "renamed" I was overstating my case a bit. :wink:
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I had a LP Classic Plus back in around 2001-3 period - got carried away in the shop and dumped £1600 on it. Was a short-lived honeymoon period, barely ever used it and sold it after trying to like it for two years.
It was quite light compared to my standard I had at the time (and still own), but it was also fussy with pickups - tending to sound bright and lacking guts.
Can't say I'm a fan of the Classic series guitars - would much rather have an Epi Japan LP (edit): like this one for £475...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Epiphone-Japan-Les-Paul-Standard-LPS80-MINTy-596-/180715364022?pt=Guitar&hash=item2a13799eb6#ht_43082wt_1139
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/dangerdog777/010/596/DSC_0187.jpg)
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or an Orville LP Custom for £365... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orville-Japan-Les-Paul-Custom-Clean-Hard-Case-603-/200645400146?pt=Guitar&hash=item2eb765d652#ht_46186wt_1139
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/dangerdog777/010/603/DSC_0549.jpg)
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Thats a couple of nice beastys you've thrown up there HTH. I'm gonna have to have more of atrawl of ebay i reckon.
Cheers
Roy
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I think there are two "Traditional" models now - the "Traditional" itself is, as you say, the pre-2008 spec with '50s neck and '57 Classics.
The "Traditional 1960" is similar but has the '60s neck, uncovered '57 Classics and the "1960" scratchplate - so it's the nearest thing in the current line to the Classic. When I said "renamed" I was overstating my case a bit. :wink:
Ah! I wasn't aware of a second Traditional, you get out of touch awfully quick once you stop selling guitars for a living!
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I think Brow mentioned there are one or two NOS ones at his local guitar shop.
Yep, they still have 2 left at £400 I think. Although the guy in the shop says that they're Korean, not Japanese?
I tried the honeyburst 1 a few weeks ago and was quite taken with it. He offered it me for £320 there and then, but as I'm not really playing at the minute and there's issues with my job and my girlfriend has already lost hers, I passed it up.
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or if you want something more upmarket try one of mine
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/felineguitars/CUSTOM%20BUILT/purplebursttiger1.jpg)
Oh good lord, I'm in a world of want
I'm trying to cut down on guitars damnit and you post that! *cries*
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I think Brow mentioned there are one or two NOS ones at his local guitar shop.
Yep, they still have 2 left at £400 I think. Although the guy in the shop says that they're Korean, not Japanese?
If they're Signatures like mine, they're most definitely Japanese, not Korean. I'd be certain just from the construction, but they also say "Made in Japan" on the headstock! :wink:
Unless Tanglewood had another batch built elsewhere(?).
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I think Brow mentioned there are one or two NOS ones at his local guitar shop.
Yep, they still have 2 left at £400 I think. Although the guy in the shop says that they're Korean, not Japanese?
If they're Signatures like mine, they're most definitely Japanese, not Korean. I'd be certain just from the construction, but they also say "Made in Japan" on the headstock! :wink:
Unless Tanglewood had another batch built elsewhere(?).
It did play well. But I've played Korean guitars that did too so it didn't make it jump out at me.
Can't say as I noticed anything on the headstock as to wher it's made, prob just me being stupid :lol:
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Well. I've bitten the bullet and snagged me a lovely Edwards LP :wink:. It arrived today and have just used it at rehearsal and was really impressed by the tone(its already BKP'd)! Its a lovely looking guitar too.
I'll try and get some pic's up soon, but its one that may be familiar anyway.
Cheers
Roy
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Well. I've bitten the bullet and snagged me a lovely Edwards LP :wink:. It arrived today and have just used it at rehearsal and was really impressed by the tone(its already BKP'd)! Its a lovely looking guitar too.
Hmmm.... from someone on this forum, by any chance? :P
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Well. I've bitten the bullet and snagged me a lovely Edwards LP :wink:. It arrived today and have just used it at rehearsal and was really impressed by the tone(its already BKP'd)! Its a lovely looking guitar too.
Hmmm.... from someone on this forum, by any chance? :P
Possibly ;)
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Happy new guitar day!
Edwards make a very nice Les Paul.
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Also, I've been gassing badly for an Epiphone Spirit ever since I let one get away some time ago.
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It was indeed Johns Edward. Its great and I love it!
Cheers
Roy
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haha sweet :D