Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: FELINEGUITARS on December 29, 2011, 09:59:34 PM
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One minute he was here and now he only shows as guest - odd considering he was a moderator and all that .
Did he just tire of the forum, and or some of the petty bickering that has been on here of late?
Did he stop playing guitar ?
Did he stop using BKPs ?
Did he forget to send Tim a Xmas card ?
V curious.........anyone know his whereabouts?
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Maybe hes just busy.
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no - his profile is gone.
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petty bickering?
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Profile deleted? Bizarre.
Who is/are the mods left then?
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Who is/are the mods left then?
Nolly?
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I was speaking with Ben earlier around this and he has just got tired of the place and all of the childish stuff thats been going on more than anything.
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Maybe because it's mainly djent and less classic metal/rock interest on the board nowadays too?
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I was speaking with Ben earlier around this and he has just got tired of the place and all of the childish stuff thats been going on more than anything.
Yep, been saying the same thing to me.
Maybe because it's mainly djent and less classic metal/rock interest on the board nowadays too?
This could also have something to do with it too. It certainly makes me post less as I can have no input at all into such discussions as I have no experience in the area. Ben is also heavilly focused in similar areas as I am, so it could reason into it.
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Maybe because it's mainly djent and less classic metal/rock interest on the board nowadays too?
I don't think that if you took a poll of every visitor to the site that this would pan out - especially if you polled those who just drop in and read and don't post or even those who read regularly without even being a member.
I think you will find that there is a healthy mix of tastes ranging from rock , pop ,blues, metal, RnB, surf, country, reggae, soul, gospel, jazz, punk etc etc (sorry if I overlooked your genre)
I do think that maybe there is a lot of vociferous posting from a minority who share certain more "contemporary" forms of extreme metal/djent /black metal etc, and it is possible to feel that the forum has swayed a bit far that way at times.
Maybe these are just the music forms that appeal to those with time on their hands to post a lot.
It would be nice to see a bit more variety at times and I'd enjoy hearing views on a lot of the other genres and which pickups are great for them. I'm sure it would be good for a lot of the other less vocal visitors too.
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I was speaking with Ben earlier around this and he has just got tired of the place and all of the childish stuff thats been going on more than anything.
I do also feel that there has been a bit too much antagonistic behaviour on the forum of late - certainly compared to previous years.
As well as incidents of newbies joining up and posting 100 posts a day and starting a new topic with every other post and annoying the rest of the membership till they get fed up and leave/get asked to leave, there has been a little friction amongst more long standing members, which seems unnecessary.
It's not usually in the guitars, pickups or musical sections of the forum, but rather in the off tops areas, and (strangely for the internet) not in the usual hotspots : religion or politics, but rather in response to other social issues and attitudes towards honesty/dishonesty and respect.
There have been accusations of trolling or taking a viewpoint /stance on something , almost as if just for the chance to be diametrically opposed to another view put forward, and hence have a chance for debate or friction.
Maybe that is what Ben got tired of - especially as a mod.
Maybe more time playing guitar and less time in front of a PC would be a remedy.
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I do think that maybe there is a lot of vociferous posting from a minority who share certain more "contemporary" forms of extreme metal/djent /black metal etc, and it is possible to feel that the forum has swayed a bit far that way at times.
Maybe these are just the music forms that appeal to those with time on their hands to post a lot.
Eh? I'm not into djentism! :wink:
I think we do get a lot of new threads in the Pickups forum (in particular) from people into those types of music, but that can't be helped, can it? It would be interesting to see more from people into jazz, country, blues, pop etc but they seem to be thin on the ground. Maybe BK are developing an image as a "metal" brand, albeit unintentionally?
As for Ben's contributions, maybe he just got bored? It's human nature, I think. Maybe if I had more going on in my life I'd spend less time on here too!
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I was speaking with Ben earlier around this and he has just got tired of the place and all of the childish stuff thats been going on more than anything.
I do also feel that there has been a bit too much antagonistic behaviour on the forum of late - certainly compared to previous years.
As well as incidents of newbies joining up and posting 100 posts a day and starting a new topic with every other post and annoying the rest of the membership till they get fed up and leave/get asked to leave, there has been a little friction amongst more long standing members, which seems unnecessary.
It's not usually in the guitars, pickups or musical sections of the forum, but rather in the off tops areas, and (strangely for the internet) not in the usual hotspots : religion or politics, but rather in response to other social issues and attitudes towards honesty/dishonesty and respect.
There have been accusations of trolling or taking a viewpoint /stance on something , almost as if just for the chance to be diametrically opposed to another view put forward, and hence have a chance for debate or friction.
Maybe that is what Ben got tired of - especially as a mod.
Maybe more time playing guitar and less time in front of a PC would be a remedy.
I agree entirely with everything you said there.
I personally don't find myself on here much at all lately. I find myself going to much calmer places when on the internet nowadays.
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Maybe BK are developing an image as a "metal" brand, albeit unintentionally?
I find this myself a lot lately but not good old metal. Just the more modern kiddy metal.
There is now nothing at all in the range or the upcoming range that im aware of that interests me that i dont own.
I have actually been getting a lot of my pickups elsewhere and only own 2 bkps now just for a bit of a different flavour.
its quite sad really as i always saw BK's as being more vintage/classic orientated and really excelling in this but it seems they are pushing off in a new direction.
However i can't blame them you take the business where the money is,
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I do also feel that there has been a bit too much antagonistic behaviour on the forum of late - certainly compared to previous years.
It's not usually in the guitars, pickups or musical sections of the forum, but rather in the off tops areas, and (strangely for the internet) not in the usual hotspots : religion or politics, but rather in response to other social issues and attitudes towards honesty/dishonesty and respect.
It's true, but we still see little of the gratuitous bitching and rudeness that often crops up on other forums.
Those discussions about politics/religion/social issues do get pretty heated, but I think they (generally) remain true debates rather than trading insults. And they're easy to ignore if they're not of interest. Once nfe and a few others roll out their big intellectual guns, it reaches a point where I no longer understand what they're talking about so I just tune out....
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Shame.
Anyway I'll be starting 2012 by posting a picture of some huge great big tits.
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He's not posted very often for a while though, has he? I thought he'd maybe just been bored of it.
If it's due to what he sees as "childish bickering" or whatever I think that's a bit sad. To me, the forum is vastly more interesting than it used to be when it could be very sycophantic and nicey nicey - just for the sake of not rocking the boat. Now we get semi-regular interesting debates, generally with at least a few people with pretty solid grounding in a topic, or at worst some considered opinions. Great, in my book.
Regards BKP's reputation being held in most esteem in the metal market, from what I see on the internet it would seem to be the case. But I think it's also true that it is likely that the majority of people who spend a lot of time on the net are young(er) - and of those that are right into music gear, they'll be far more likely to fall into the metal and hard rock camps than the jazz and blues. It'd be interesting to know how the different pickups sell - Warpig is always held up as the most popular, right?
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Shame.
Anyway I'll be starting 2012 by posting a picture of some huge great big tits.
Nice!
If it's due to what he sees as "childish bickering" or whatever I think that's a bit sad.
To me, the forum is vastly more interesting than it used to be when it could be very sycophantic and nicey nicey - just for the sake of not rocking the boat.
Now we get semi-regular interesting debates, generally with at least a few people with pretty solid grounding in a topic, or at worst some considered opinions. Great, in my book.
Yes - but one persons idea of somewhere to engage in healthy, but heated debate is another person's idea of hell.
My background on that issue:
7 years ago I spent a hellish couple of years dating someone who had once been "queen of her school debating team", and she thrived on having a differing viewpoint and taking people to task in a political style debate:
If the other person raised a valid argument or salient points - rather than mull over those ideas with a chance of being "enriched" by the new info and maybe altering aspects of her outlook, she simply looked for ways to undermine her "opponent" in any way she could and wasn't frightened of researching her opponent to find weaknesses to pick upon (she would have made a good lawyer like the ones you see in TV dramas) or find a way to prove the fallacy of your view.
She would wage war on the other person via blogs, forums, social media and suchlike - all in the name of sport.
She is a bit like marmite wherever she goes - some people love her as she brings drama with her, and others $%&#ing hate her with a passion.
Even those that liked her can get converted the other way if she decides to make them the subject of her laser-guided wrath.
Having been a psychological punchbag a few times too often maybe I'm just a bit allergic to people wanting to strike up a debate for the sake of it. There is nothing wrong with debate as such but my life has enough drama without it.
Using the "pub" analogy that often gets used to describe this place:
If I went to a pub and one of the regulars regularly made the place feel uptight and tense with his need for debate and drama, I might feel the need to go to a different pub if I wasn't able to ignore the atmosphere he created.
If it were my "regular" boozer where I had been a barfly for years , I might feel inclined to have a word i his ear if I felt driven out by the 'argy-bargy' - or more than likely to have a word in the ear of the landlord.
I may be alone in feeling that I preferred it without the added tension, but then again I may not be.
Lately it has gotten a bit predictable:
At one time you could post a pic of a tele and think - Uh oh - just wait till Roo sees that - there will be hell to pay.
Or post a link to Phil X without saying it's him and have PhillyQ get in a strop about it
Lately I have on a few occasions thought: I dread NFE seeing a particular thread as it will just turn into a highbrow head butting contest.
You are actually very good at debating and returning a structured argument, you know stuff or research it well.
Anyone wanting to see what I mean can follow the link to your responses to one subject here on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/nfe?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/nfe?feature=watch)
Reflecting upon my views even as I type this I can see that you don't go to similar extremes that my ex did, but I think I am still allergic to being around too much debate.
Maybe I l have looked at the BKP forum for the longest time as somewhere where I had been used to coming to kick back, relax and chill, whilst discussing guitar sounds, and not having fierce debate raging around me .
Maybe I am in a minority here and others would prefer a more vigorous debating platform here at BKP.
If that were to be the case and the forum drifted in that direction maybe I too would be like Ben and quote Duncan Bannatyne from Dragon's Den with the words "I'm Out"
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Now this is just a thought, but is it not understandable that BKP is developing more modern pickups? (if that is even the case, Tim might just happen to have those ideas right now without any intention).
When you ask yourself: What has not been done in the vintage area and what has not been done in the modern area it kinda makes sense to me.
The only one that comes to mind when thinking about doing vintage differently is Uli Teuffel, a guitar builder from germany. I posted a spotlight on him here too, look it up.
But back to topic: What I am saying is that there does not have to be intend on Tims side for the current BKP direction being more modern. Might just as well go completly vintage after the Blackhawk for all we know.
Still seing Denim go is sad, one would have hoped that stepping down as an admin would have sufficed. I really liked his advice.
About the tone on this forum: There might be some things falling out here and it might be worse than in previous years (I would not know), but it is still miles ahead of any other forum I ever visited. The way I was treated here made me wanne stay and now I love this place.
The key is leading by example there are several core people who do that greatly. They have drawn me in and I hope to one day be able to replace them ;)
@Feline: I too am looking more for a place where you can exchange ideas and experiences in a manner of colaboration than debate.
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Those discussions about politics/religion/social issues do get pretty heated, but I think they (generally) remain true debates rather than trading insults. And they're easy to ignore if they're not of interest. Once nfe and a few others roll out their big intellectual guns, it reaches a point where I no longer understand what they're talking about so I just tune out....
You and me both Phil! :lol:
I think in general we have a good range of views and respect for each other here on the forum, and only now and again does it go a bit wrong. It's been a tough year or two, so maybe frustrations are affecting the way people post. Lets hope 2012 is a better year for everyone and the mood lightens :)
At the very least we know you'll end up with more parts than you know what to do with, and I'll swear I'm not going to do something and then go ahead and do it :lol:
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I have no idea if/when Ben has opted out but he always struck me as a man with opinions and one not to mess around and I wouldn't be surprised if he did decide to go. Of course he could have decided to move on for no particular reason but if I may "speak" for myself, I have questioned my own involvement of late but there are enough of the reasons for me to stick around .....but: I too have noticed the tendency of threads becoming lengthy debates sometimes somewhat heated with an unpleasant edge.. Fortunately most seem polite and civilized but I have more than enough drama in my life and I come here to keep up to date with what is going on in the world of BKP, and to help out if with an opinion on BKPs if I can- and to read what folk are expressing....but I never get involved in the religious/political/controversial stuff. I did once and I was offended by a regular here who misunderstood something I said.I could and probably should have responded to clarify but chose not to and it did change my attitude towards the forum but not enough to make me want to go but it was close. I just decided that if I want to take part in a fight, I always prefer face to face rather than get into a war of words with someone I can't possibly know. Where I can't pickup the nuances of what they are "saying" (emoticons notwithstanding)
I wouldn't say that things have deteriorated to childish bickering but I do skip over some of the threads and I stay out of them. I certainly post a lot less and I adopt the view that if you have nothing good to say then don't say it. A recent thread is the epitome of what I would avoid as I could see where it would lead but it isn't down to me what is posted fortunately so I just skip it.
Jonathan has expressed very well a view that is very similar to mine. I hope Ben comes back but I am sure he can speak for himself if he chooses to and it will be a matter of whether he still reads what is said and whether he feels that he wants to respond. I think we may already have our answer.
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Is it time those long debating threads were stopped, for the good of the forum? If it's not helping Tim sell pickups, or possibly turning off current and future users of the forum, should they be reported to the mods to be deleted?
I've been guilty of getting sucked into them a couple of times when I wish I hadn't :(
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I think in general we have a good range of views and respect for each other here on the forum, and only now and again does it go a bit wrong. It's been a tough year or two, so maybe frustrations are affecting the way people post. Lets hope 2012 is a better year for everyone and the mood lightens :)
At the very least we know you'll end up with more parts than you know what to do with, and I'll swear I'm not going to do something and then go ahead and do it :lol:
Both good points! :lol:
If that were to be the case and the forum drifted in that direction maybe I too would be like Ben and quote Duncan Bannatyne from Dragon's Den with the words "I'm Out"
I certainly hope you don't! :(
I personally enjoy the threads where we go off on silly tangents and have ludicrous (and non-serious) off-topic discussions. I've often suspected Ben may have found that type of thing irritating. In which case I apologise (but I'm not saying I'll stop doing it :P ).
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Personally this is the only guitar forum I regularly visit and post to. It has a very, very good signal/noise ratio and a lot of good people on it...
...and shobet is going to post a picture of some great big tits.
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Yeah, this is still a calmer place than most "opinionated" forums. I don't visit any others these days (TDPRI occasionally).
I don't think that we're too bad. We have characters on here, but there's very little malicious talk. For those of us that have been around for a while - we all know who's going to react to certain topics, right? I find many of the rants amusing and occasionally informative. I'm sure that we all throw our hands up in exasperation on occasion, but we can generally finish a heated thread on good terms.
People come and go. This place still has something to offer. Contentious posts can always be avoided.
Mark.
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... and to preempt Shobert - tits.
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three tits!
AWESOME
/Paul
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I also closed my account here and stopped posting for a while before returning. Forums can get you down after a while and I needed a break from posting on the internet.
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Very sad to see Denim and Leather go as his opinion was always one that I respected very highly. If it is because of the more contentious threads lately then that is indeed a shame.
I've always felt, and this is just me, that on a guitar related forum if someone says something stupid and insulting (in my opinion) then I trust that most of the other forumites have probably rolled their eyes also because I hope and believe that they're sensible folk. Furthermore, because the Internet is so lacking in nuance and context, having a proper debate is nigh on impossible (again, in my opinion) which puts me off engaging on forums in general. On the few occasions where I've felt I wanted to support, or needed to disagree with, something controversial that someone's posted, I've sent them a direct message to that effect. That works for me.
I've also noticed the shift in emphasis toward focusing on more modern humbucking pickups across the board. That's a shame for me as it's not a topic on which I really have an opinion, but I don't see as it's bad for the board if it's still active and full of people helping one another - it just won't be me.
If anyone knows Denim and Leather in the non-forum world, please send him my best and thank him for the input and advice over the years.
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I personally enjoy the threads where we go off on silly tangents and have ludicrous (and non-serious) off-topic discussions. I've often suspected Ben may have found that type of thing irritating. In which case I apologise (but I'm not saying I'll stop doing it :P ).
That's the bit I like... I'm pretty "meat & potatos" in my opinions & my tastes but I've found it hard to staddle the fine line between "looking & eye-rolling" & "enabling via participation" ...
I'm most happy hanging out on the Rock Ballads + Crushes threads until a serious question I can answer comes up.
I don't know or care about "Djent" or the salami slices of "Death/doom/Blood on Cat's Vulva" metal.
If it's got a tune, play it... If girls can dance to it, more the better!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8wEUIXSYO54/TbG8EanCqUI/AAAAAAAAA9A/-W9sqN2Pnmo/s1600/163835_main.jpg)
Go on ask me one about the 80s/90s.. :P
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Ah, that's a shame if Ben's gone... but things/people move on, I guess.
Personally, I'm kinda happy with how the forum is ticking along. I've got less to say than in the past but I'm still reading the things that grab me. I have to admit I avoid a lot more threads than I used to (including pickup, gear, and off-topic threads that don't interest me), but then I seem a lot busier than I was a while back.
I do find some of the subjects that come up seem a bit "repetitive" to me nowadays and I tend to feel "oh here we go again" - but that's only because I've been involved in similar threads before and I said/read all I wanted to in the past. That's kind of the nature of the beast though, isn't it? (and life in general, it feels like :lol:)
I don't object to any of the contentious issues that crop up, I find most of them entertaining or, when I don't, I don't bother following them. And in some of them I even learn stuff, about myself or the other posters, if nothing else!
I do get a bit worried/upset if two or more folks start misunderstanding each other and start having a go at each other. But that seems to happen a lot less on here than other places I visit. Added to that, it usually seems to end in a more friendly way on here.
I think this place is a lot healthier than all others I've come across and I personally think the rules/moderation are pretty much working ok. I think we'd actually lose something if people couldn't express their opinions in the way that they want/need to. Maybe some people seem to want to take some things a lot more seriously on here than I seem to, but that's ok by me if I'm ok by them.
Anyway, Ben, good wishes to you and I hope all is going well for you. :D
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Dave, how was prison in the 80s and 90s compared to now?
Also have you found the sex offenders register cramps your style?
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If anyone knows Denim and Leather in the non-forum world, please send him my best and thank him for the input and advice over the years.
I will be sure to pass on your message when i next speak to him.
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Its a shame if he left because he started to dislike, in effect, the company.
Its a factor in all forums though. In real life you can choose who you hang out with, who you converse with, for the most part. In a forum the boundaries are in boards and topics, not social groups, and personalities that can be quite incompatible can end up butting heads. Its one of the things that can make them all the more interesting, and one of the things that can wind you up the wrong way.
Even while this is a very friendly board that sort of thing will happen. If theres a perception that its going downhill or whatever, its still easily and by far the nicest, most civilised board with the least emnity between regulars and animosity toward newcomers that I've been on. But still characters can clash, and add to that there are always new people turning up.
People picking on nfe a bit, to me at least, encapsulates the character clash thing: I like the guy, I enjoy his posts. Roo, same story. Some like you (the general 'you', not you specifically nfe or roo), some dont. It applies to all of us all the time, but the clashes and 'petty bickering' seem more likely on forums as, basically, you dont get to choose who youre speaking to; you cant see them over in the corner of the proverbial BK pub and think 'not today' and find someone else to talk to. (You can find another thread though). I know I've rubbed people up the wrong way on here before and dont get on very well with some, and do with others. Its just how it is.
With the continual influx of new members its not reasonable for those of us that have been here since more or less the start of the board to have the same experience here now as in 2006.
Ben leaving is a shame though. Hes always seemed to me to be a gent and general nice chap, even when being silly or expressing his often very unambiguous opinions. I hope he gets on well with whatever hes doing - can anyone in regular contact with him please pass on my best wishes, tell him its been a pleasure.
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Its a shame if he left because he started to dislike, in effect, the company.
I wouldn't say it's a dislike of the company its more the general vibe here and he has a lot of commitments going on currently and I think this was just one extra thing that he could do without to lighten his load so to speak.
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A fine post Mr MDV - you've managed to say, clearly, some stuff I was trying to type earlier. I was failing, so I cut it out of mine...
Nice one :D
(In other words, +1 !)
Its a shame if he left because he started to dislike, in effect, the company.
I wouldn't say it's a dislike of the company its more the general vibe here and he has a lot of commitments going on currently and I think this was just one extra thing that he could do without to lighten his load so to speak.
Thanks for passing this on - I had a feeling it would be something like this (rather than just getting fed up with the folks).
I have to admit, if I had to read every post on here, I'd be questioning whether I had the time or inclination to do so! :lol:
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I think you put it well Mark so thumbs aloft Macca style from me ( wait til Roo sees that).
And Toe-Knee, please pass on my best wishes to Ben too. I will also be sorry to see him go-the forum will be lessened with his absence.
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I will pass on the link to him the next time we speak so he can read it all.
And probably come add some corrections too.
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People picking on nfe a bit, to me at least, encapsulates the character clash thing: I like the guy, I enjoy his posts. Roo, same story. Some like you (the general 'you', not you specifically nfe or roo), some dont.
I don't think anyone 'picks on' nfe or Roo. We all have our character traits that get jokes made of, and we laugh them off for the most part. I know I do! :lol:
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Dave, how was prison in the 80s and 90s compared to now?
Also have you found the sex offenders register cramps your style?
Q1 = I got out in 2001 so I can't compare. The 80s were more sociable, but the mood changed when we got liquid soap in 1996 because I couldn't drop it in the showers.
Q2 = The girls I like often use the register to find me.
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+1 to MDV's post
To clarify - I don't have any animosity towards anyone on here - certainly not Roo or NFE
It's like in real life where you have good friends who you tag along with fine till someone inadvertently raises a contentious subject - often social or political , and the next thing you notice is that they have pulled up a chair and rolled up their sleeves in preparation of a long and drawn out debate/discussion/friendly argument.
They clearly relish the situation, whilst you were happier with the usual discussion of birds, booze, music or whatever, and can't be arsed with the heavy semantics about to go down and wonder if you could get away with sloping off to play the fruit machine or play pool instead.
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Still - even if you don't like the tone of some discussions, its slightly petulant to actively go to the trouble of deleting an account, no?
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It's like in real life where you have good friends who you tag along with fine till someone inadvertently raises a contentious subject - often social or political , and the next thing you notice is that they have pulled up a chair and rolled up their sleeves in preparation of a long and drawn out debate/discussion/friendly argument.
They clearly relish the situation, whilst you were happier with the usual discussion of birds, booze, music or whatever, and can't be arsed with the heavy semantics about to go down and wonder if you could get away with sloping off to play the fruit machine or play pool instead.
I quite agree with this statement. I'm a very simple person and go down the pub/come on here to relax and join in the conversation about things that I am really interested in. I have, like others, on occassion tumbled into a debate and either got drawn in and posted my thoughts or rolled my eyes about a lengthy philosophical/political/moral/etctetc point of contention. My "ignore thread" trigger kicks in when som of the bigger boys start either using words I don't understand or quoting stuff that I don't really understand much about (or both)
I don't hold any grudges or actually dislike any people on here (might be different if I met some face to ace though :lol: ) and do think that this is quite possibly the greatest guitar based forum going with very little actual vociferous slating of people.
I for one have no plans to leave this place - the only way this would happen is if Afghan gets it shut down due to peddling filth.
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Still - even if you don't like the tone of some discussions, its slightly petulant to actively go to the trouble of deleting an account, no?
Nah. That could easily just be to make sure he doesnt relapse or whatever.
On other forums you often see big drama-queen "Youre a bunch of tossers, this place isnt what I want it to be, I'M OFF" threads started. I dont recall seeing that here. Ben was a big enough and well liked enough figure that I'd have liked to see a goodbye thread though :(
Can we get back to taking the piss out of each other and concocting eleborate verbose posts on sociology and religion to scare and bore phil and ian now please? :lol:
Might talk about guitar stuff too, at a push.
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Can we get back to taking the piss out of each other and concocting eleborate verbose posts on sociology and religion to scare and bore phil and ian now please? :lol:
Might talk about guitar stuff too, at a push.
:lol:
Please fire away. I need my daily fix of feeling incredibly simple. :D
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It's true, but we still see little of the gratuitous bitching and rudeness that often crops up on other forums.
Those discussions about politics/religion/social issues do get pretty heated, but I think they (generally) remain true debates rather than trading insults.
+1
though jonathan said it actually wasn't the politics/religion type threads, and i can't think of any off-hand where there was rudeness (or maybe i've just forgotten or missed them). EDIT: ah right i might have remembered one now. the bicycle one? :lol:
fwiw there have been a bunch of threads where i haven't posted anything so as not to "rock the boat"- maybe it's not me who's being referred to as the "longer standing members", but as someone with a political persuasion closer to nfe than a lot on this board, I haven't seen anything he's posted which was particularly offensive or argumentative- certainly no more so (and probably a fair bit less than) things posted by other people with a political persuasion further away from NFE. I've seen plenty of things posted not-by-nfe, by people-who've-been-here-long-enough-to-know-better, where I thought "I can't believe they posted that."
Not trying to start a fight or anything, just trying to add a little balance in case it seems like people are ganging up on nfe.
FWIW I barely know what djent is either and i haven't left. then again i rarely post in the pickup section since ben handed me my ass on a plate once (with good cause, to be fair :lol: ).
EDIT: also +1 to mark's post on the previous page.
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If 'Djent' is a genre then metal as a whole is 'Chug', blues is 'Plink', jazz is 'Ding' and hair metal is 'widdlywiddlywiddlywiddlywiddlywiddlywiddly'
Does that make it any clearer? onomatopoic genre thingymajig that by and large wants to be Mesuggah and Sikth when it grows up.
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I have no idea what djent is either - is it that metal thing where the player makes a low bend on the bottom strings every 4th beat?
(btw this is a serious question)
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I personally like the variation we get on this forum, the fact I can come to one place and discuss everything from blues and jazz to classic rock, punk and extreme metal is something you'll struggle to find elsewhere. Then there is the political debates which, while sometimes tiresome as they drag on, are mostly well natured affairs and informative.
I would however like to see some BKP products aimed at the rock market though, there does seem to have been a glut of humbuckers aimed at the br00talz market lately.
Something that fills the Wide Range humbucker market would be cool and maybe something that does the big open PAF sound with a higher output would be cool (like the 15k type of affair I've been using from another pickup mfr for some time now). The Abraxas is very close on that score, but its also a little dark (nothing that the amp's EQ can't fix though).
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I have no idea what djent is either - is it that metal thing where the player makes a low bend on the bottom strings every 4th beat?
(btw this is a serious question)
No, its a verbal mimicing of the sound of an open string or note hit hard (or relatively thin string hit softer) with a medium gain tone EQd to accentuate pick attack thats quickly muted. The pick attack and sound of the string going very slightly sharp, then being stopped gives a "Gent" sound. Somehow, this commonplace way of hitting strings thats been around for probably centuries (and by rights Gypsie Folk has far more claim to it as a technique) became a meaningless sub-genre.
meshuggah are often heralded as its progenitors, periphery its popularisers, and none of them seem to want anything to do with the term. Sevenstring.org is its natural habitat (where you can be banned for not gushing with sycophantic incoherent lust about anything periphery do...actually you can be banned on SS.org for practically anything, but thats beside the point)
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Sevenstring.org is its natural habitat (where you can be banned for not gushing with sycophantic incoherent lust about anything periphery do...actually you can be banned on SS.org for practically anything, but thats beside the point)
Post of the day in my book! :lol:
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Also notice that Hunter hasn't posted for a few weeks - hope he hasn't gone the same way as Ben as I found his reviews of pickups /gear to be spot on and they were usually backed up by excellent clips. His type of posts were/are the main reason I came to this forum (bought several bits of gear after reading his posts ..Tascam DR1, Xotic EP Boost etc). Unfortunately the forum has tended to drift away in other directions which don't really interest me in the same way.
Always found Ben's posts to be interesting even if I didn't agree with some of them.
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I just tend to not read the more verbose posts, mostly I'm simply not interested. I treat it like the TV, if I don't like what I'm seeing I simply change channels. Same goes for the threads I'm not interested in.
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I just tend to not read the more verbose posts, mostly I'm simply not interested. I treat it like the TV, if I don't like what I'm seeing I simply change channels. Same goes for the threads I'm not interested in.
So do I.
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It's a great shame Ben has gone. He was one of the main posters here answering questions and giving advise when this forum got going in 2005. Back then we didn't have these huge drawn out debates about current affairs ect but like many have said you don't have to get involved. Things change all the time though and here is no exception. I can think of a lot of big posters from the past that are no longer seen here. I hope Ben is ok though and wish him well. I met him twice and thought he was a great bloke.
I don't think other musical styles are overlooked here. It is what you make it. The pick up range covers all musical styles and the modern metal range are doing well, which is good for business. You have to keep your finger on the pulse and not get complacent in an ever changing market. If you don't, well look what happened to the British Motorcycle industry.
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I would however like to see some BKP products aimed at the rock market though, there does seem to have been a glut of humbuckers aimed at the br00talz market lately.
Something that fills the Wide Range humbucker market would be cool and maybe something that does the big open PAF sound with a higher output would be cool (like the 15k type of affair I've been using from another pickup mfr for some time now). The Abraxas is very close on that score, but its also a little dark (nothing that the amp's EQ can't fix though).
I am looking forward to Tims answers to the Q&A which should be up soon
i asked if there was more of a potential market for the 9 string humbuckers that he is working on and having to have parts specially made as opposed to demand for things such as mini hum buckers and wide range hum buckers.
I know that 2012 will bring a few variants that aren't all brootalz
there is the Jaguar pickups that have been promised
The blackhawk isn't apparently all about brootalz and djent it seems - will be good to see what that is about.
I would like to see a couple of pickup variants that offer the weaker end of the spectrum
Because i like 1960s era Rolling stones and I find the mini hum buckers sound good for that sound , I wondered if there was a way to make that happen in a full size hum-bucker , or even something with a slight Gretsch like tone - whether you want rockabilly twang, AC/DC crunch or ZZ Top raunchiness
I would like to see Firebird and mini HBs in time too
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don't forget the intergenerational thing also.old farts to whippersnappers with a broad range of tastes and personalities.
if you don't like what someone says, big deal.a forum is to air views, even wrong or useless ones.
i'm happy to have shared in all the information posted here.certainly have appreciated your input jonathan 'feline', as
one of the true experts here.
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I was speaking with Ben earlier around this and he has just got tired of the place and all of the childish stuff thats been going on more than anything.
I do also feel that there has been a bit too much antagonistic behaviour on the forum of late - certainly compared to previous years.
As well as incidents of newbies joining up and posting 100 posts a day and starting a new topic with every other post and annoying the rest of the membership till they get fed up and leave/get asked to leave, there has been a little friction amongst more long standing members, which seems unnecessary.
It's not usually in the guitars, pickups or musical sections of the forum, but rather in the off tops areas, and (strangely for the internet) not in the usual hotspots : religion or politics, but rather in response to other social issues and attitudes towards honesty/dishonesty and respect.
There have been accusations of trolling or taking a viewpoint /stance on something , almost as if just for the chance to be diametrically opposed to another view put forward, and hence have a chance for debate or friction.
Maybe that is what Ben got tired of - especially as a mod.
Maybe more time playing guitar and less time in front of a PC would be a remedy.
I agree entirely with everything you said there.
I personally don't find myself on here much at all lately. I find myself going to much calmer places when on the internet nowadays.
On reflection, I think this is why I'm not in here as much as I used to be. I've got so used to it being the way it is now, I've not given it a thought as why it should be this way.
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I am looking forward to Tims answers to the Q&A which should be up soon
i asked if there was more of a potential market for the 9 string humbuckers that he is working on and having to have parts specially made as opposed to demand for things such as mini hum buckers and wide range hum buckers.
assuming that's sarcasm, i lulled
I haven't even got as far as trying a 7 string yet, let alone an 8 :lol:
also, when i think about it, maybe there hasn't been as much stuff of interest for me over teh past while either. Nothing to do with teh members or anything like that, but there used to be at least a couple of new threads every day which interested me enough to post in them. Now there are frequently days where i don't post anything (maybe that's a good thing :lol: )- I'm still around but I just don't see anything which interests me enough to post.
Also I'd still say this forum is one of the calmer places online... people actually act like real people here rather than an internet caricature/superhero.
Have you guys who are complaining been to HC? :lol: that place is so crazy even i barely post there (which is a shame as that's where a lot of teh stuff goes down, inside knowledge, news about new products etc.).
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That's a shame, I was just going to send him a PM too :(
Try martial arts forums if you want to see real confrontation :D
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I am looking forward to Tims answers to the Q&A which should be up soon
i asked if there was more of a potential market for the 9 string humbuckers that he is working on and having to have parts specially made as opposed to demand for things such as mini hum buckers and wide range hum buckers.
assuming that's sarcasm, i lulled
I haven't even got as far as trying a 7 string yet, let alone an 8 :lol:
No - not sarcasm at all
I was told that Tim was having bobbins and baseplates (and maybe covers) done for 9 string humbuckers
I think that either there is a growing marketplace for these extended range instruments or Tim is looking to be ready for when the demand arrives.
Not sure if my ears can deal with taking the frequencies much lower (unless 9 stringers are going higher as well as lower)
I think Tim has got a lot of personal interest in that area of guitar playing (and to keep enthusiasm in a business it helps to have a personal passion that you pursue as part of your product line - a bit like me and LP and V style guitars
I think it is an area that he and Nolly share enthusiasm for and enjoy working together as a result.
It may also be a matter of pride to be able to offer a pickup that nobody else can on the rare occasions that it will be asked for.
Tim may also have other designs and ideas lined up but he's kept them under wraps if that is the case.
The next 6 months or so will be focussed on the Blackhawk and Jag pickups - may even be unveiled at NAMM next month.
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Bloody extra strings.
Its getting silly. In 10 years metal gutiarists will be playing fretted harps.
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Its getting silly. In 10 years metal gutiarists will be playing fretted harps.
Bahahahahahahaha :D
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Sometimes I think the extra string thing can get silly, then I see the bass player of Unexpect doing incredible things on his 9 string BASS! Insane tapping lines and the likes. Then I wonder why I do not have 13 strings already.
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Because you need to remember that you'd look like a c--k.
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I am looking forward to Tims answers to the Q&A which should be up soon
i asked if there was more of a potential market for the 9 string humbuckers that he is working on and having to have parts specially made as opposed to demand for things such as mini hum buckers and wide range hum buckers.
assuming that's sarcasm, i lulled
I haven't even got as far as trying a 7 string yet, let alone an 8 :lol:
No - not sarcasm at all
I was told that Tim was having bobbins and baseplates (and maybe covers) done for 9 string humbuckers
I think that either there is a growing marketplace for these extended range instruments or Tim is looking to be ready for when the demand arrives.
Not sure if my ears can deal with taking the frequencies much lower (unless 9 stringers are going higher as well as lower)
I think Tim has got a lot of personal interest in that area of guitar playing (and to keep enthusiasm in a business it helps to have a personal passion that you pursue as part of your product line - a bit like me and LP and V style guitars
I think it is an area that he and Nolly share enthusiasm for and enjoy working together as a result.
It may also be a matter of pride to be able to offer a pickup that nobody else can on the rare occasions that it will be asked for.
Tim may also have other designs and ideas lined up but he's kept them under wraps if that is the case.
The next 6 months or so will be focussed on the Blackhawk and Jag pickups - may even be unveiled at NAMM next month.
oh right :lol:
i didn't even know you could get 9 string guitars yet :lol:
Bloody extra strings.
Its getting silly. In 10 years metal gutiarists will be playing fretted harps.
haha
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I've definitely noticed the increased level of current affairs discussion- I disappeared a couple of years ago and came back to find more debate but still a generally friendly atmosphere. Personally I quite like reading what NFE (in particular) and others have to say, but it's a slippery slope from verbose discussions about politics to a place where everyone just calls each other a fag, especially if new members arrive and mistake intense but good natured discussion as a cue to start a slanging match. We're best off, as a community, doing as much as possible to keep this board civil and fun as long as possible because if it ever ends up like the youtube comments section it's never going to get back to the pleasant (and, I'd imagine, more profitable) place it once was.
Of course the moderators could send Roo a warning every time he was rude about telecasters; maybe he'd stop but he'd probably just leave. And then we'd be short of a member who, when not talking about telecasters, the Beatles or mashed potato can be knowledgeable and helpful. We already have "time out" and "dressing room" sections of the board which are not particularly well defined. I wonder what people think of amalgamating them and adding a "handbags" section for the kind of more serious posts that are not to everyone's taste?
Topics that had turned into walls of text that could be moved there to keep time out (and the rest) good natured and the debaters happy. Might also be worth limiting access to it to members with 50 or more posts. I'd be interested to hear what people think.
Bob
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I remember when I first came on this forum then the person Ben was Twilight Oddessey I put a post in the wrong section as I wasnt sure where to post he came on with a very abrupt reply I almost didnt return as I thought it was a very unfriendly place but might I say that it was only to be an isolated incident I might have just caught him on a bad day and that thanks to some members who thought he was out of turn spoke up. Im glad I stayed around as the majority of folks on here are nice people.
Thats enough bum lickin for now you orrible barstewards hope you all have a good 2012.............not
HE HE
Keith
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Good idea Bob !
+1 8)
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Of course the moderators could send Roo a warning every time he was rude about telecasters; maybe he'd stop but he'd probably just leave. And then we'd be short of a member who, when not talking about telecasters, the Beatles or mashed potato can be knowledgeable and helpful.
As a telecaster-addict I don't mind some tele-bashing by Roo. Most of the time it's amusing, you know sooner or later the snowball comes. And then some responses put a grin on my face. As long as it doesn't get nasty, I have no problem with it. Personally I don't feel the need to devaluate the taste of others. If someone likes pointy headstocks, that's good to me. Otherwise telecasters would be sold out soon.
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I think that is a good idea Bob - a very good idea. Not sure how a moderator would see it though.
As for Roo and teles (and Macca 'n' Mash) I do like it that there are others that have massively different opinions from me and other tele/macca/mash lovers. It would be a boring place without that.
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I'll give you two posts. The one I would like to write, and the one I imagine you would prefer to.
Post 1
I dont agree, bob. That probably shouldnt come as a surprise :lol: As an occasional wall of text writer, I dont see the harm. Its a bit rude to write 'TL;DR', but we're all prefectly free to think it and click a link, which is all it really amount to.
Aditionally, how do you segregate when they're often mingled? Where do you draw the line? AndyR is an admirable poster, and a frequently verbose one, and his posts and posts of similar word counts from others are often found among light discussion. I usually read them, but if you dont want to 'TLDR' (in your head, still ;)).
It also adds another layer of moderation, and also creates something else that can cause friction and be utterly self defeating. Most of us like it here as-is in that regard; nigh on unmoderated, in what we can discuss and how. I could, and may yet go on at great length on the potential of a rule segregating lengthy and argumentative posts to create lengthy arguments for the irony and self-proving demonstration of it. I'll try not to, because that would miss the point; some people like to write and read long posts, and some people like to argue and some dont. Provided they dont become abusive, I dont see that there should be a system to tailor the forums discussions toward particular tastes in discussion.
Alternative post
-1
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Just wanted to chip in regarding the 9-string pickups - the reason why they have been developed despite being a very niche product is because there is a way that Tim can make them without needing to invest heavily in new machining. Because of this it's still financially viable for BKP to make them, despite the demand being small. That isn't the case with completely new designs such as mini-humbuckers or wide-range pickups, which would require significant investment.
I haven't actually had any role in their development (I think both Tim and I agree it's a bridge too far in terms of what a single instrument can achieve while sounding balanced across the whole range!).
Oh, and I'll point out that though I am a moderator, I don't have that many powers. Ol is the guy to go to if you need something of any significance done :)
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I agree with MDV - As long as nobody is being abusive then I don't see the harm in some longer, potentially contentious debates in the off-topic areas. I wouldn't dream of telling somebody how they should post on a forum - If I don't like the way they post, I simply won't read them. Surely this is the reason that the format of an internet forum is so popular - every topic is contained in it's own thread behind a little link, so that people who might want to read that can click on the link, and other people can skip over it. I personally am not interested in the threads about djent or nu-metal, although I have no problem with people that enjoy it and want to talk about it. In this case when I see a thread with 'djent' in the title I just skip over that one - I don't even open it. Next I might see a thread about rock or politics (or political rock?!), and I might decide I'm interested in that and read it.
By the way, just to embarrass myself a little bit - Until a couple of weeks ago I actually thought that Djent was a band :oops: I had seen threads like 'How to get that Djent sound' and just assumed it was a new band. Google put me right when I got curious enough to search to see who they were :lol:
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I'll give you two posts. The one I would like to write, and the one I imagine you would prefer to.
Post 1
I dont agree, bob. That probably shouldnt come as a surprise :lol: As an occasional wall of text writer, I dont see the harm. Its a bit rude to write 'TL;DR', but we're all prefectly free to think it and click a link, which is all it really amount to.
Aditionally, how do you segregate when they're often mingled? Where do you draw the line? AndyR is an admirable poster, and a frequently verbose one, and his posts and posts of similar word counts from others are often found among light discussion. I usually read them, but if you dont want to 'TLDR' (in your head, still ;)).
It also adds another layer of moderation, and also creates something else that can cause friction and be utterly self defeating. Most of us like it here as-is in that regard; nigh on unmoderated, in what we can discuss and how. I could, and may yet go on at great length on the potential of a rule segregating lengthy and argumentative posts to create lengthy arguments for the irony and self-proving demonstration of it. I'll try not to, because that would miss the point; some people like to write and read long posts, and some people like to argue and some dont. Provided they dont become abusive, I dont see that there should be a system to tailor the forums discussions toward particular tastes in discussion.
Alternative post
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i thought i agreed with bob until i saw your post, mark.
Nice work :)
Especially your bit about tailoring the forum to specific people- I know it's annoying when newcomers come in and change things, but certainly a fair few of the regulars who have been here from the start (or almost the start) don't seem to have a massive problem with the way things are currently.
FWIW... while I don't want this place to turn abusive or anything like that (obviously), and I feel bad when there are the odd slightly contentious threads, I would say that back in the day when everything was awesome (supposedly), i did occasionally get a little annoyed that some things seemed to be "off limits".
As I said, I want this place to remain polite (and I always feel bad whenever i feel i've been confrontational, if that's worth anything), but if i only had two choices, the sort of enforced/self-censored niceness where people are only being nice because they're not allowed to talk about anything controversial, or a place where people try to remain as nice as possible, but are free to (genuinely) disagree (rather than trolling) and where occasionally it gets a little heated, I'd pick teh latter.
I think most of us here can handle the latter. I know I can. :)
Also I'm biased because I'm probably one of the ones making the long posts :lol:
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Its always been the latter Dave but you said it, it's the trolling that's getting some of us down.
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I find looking at tittywads helps dissipate any feelings of downyness that I get.
That and having a wank whilst reading one of the TLAs verbose posts...
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The TLA?
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TLA = three letter acronym.
You figure it out!
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I'm too tired! :lol:
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Tit Lovers Association or Three Letter Acronyms?
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Tit Lovers Association or Three Letter Acronyms?
A proud member ;) of the TLA... The first one.
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Just wanted to chip in regarding the 9-string pickups - the reason why they have been developed despite being a very niche product is because there is a way that Tim can make them without needing to invest heavily in new machining. Because of this it's still financially viable for BKP to make them, despite the demand being small. That isn't the case with completely new designs such as mini-humbuckers or wide-range pickups, which would require significant investment.
I haven't actually had any role in their development (I think both Tim and I agree it's a bridge too far in terms of what a single instrument can achieve while sounding balanced across the whole range!).
Oh, and I'll point out that though I am a moderator, I don't have that many powers. Ol is the guy to go to if you need something of any significance done :)
Thanks for that input Nolly.
It makes a lot of sense now you spell it out for us about the tooling costs being relatively cheap.
I agree with the statement about an instrument sounding balanced across it's range with increasing range of strings - some 7s I've played struggled - so 8s and 9s would really struggle with it.
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I met Ben a number of times in real life and he was never less than sincere. True, we once had a standup argument, but I still consider him a friend.
I for one will miss his posts, he always stayed up to date with the most obscure boutique gear and put down a few purchases down to his good advice.
Hopefully I will get to share a cask conditioned ale with him again soon.
As for everything else, I dislike like the pseudo-highbrow political debates as much as anyone.. but they are easy to ignore. i still think this forum is one of the best on the net in any area.
BKP definately seems to be aiming for a metal bias. i'd be as like to buy a Lollar or a DiMarzio these days.. but this is mostly because I have most of the BKP range I'm interested in ;) probably, i'm coming to the end of my guitar collecting days too. i may get an aftermath at some point though. at least tim still makes a quality item, which is something i would always trust.
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I'll give you two posts. The one I would like to write, and the one I imagine you would prefer to.
Post 1
I dont agree, bob. That probably shouldnt come as a surprise :lol: As an occasional wall of text writer, I dont see the harm. Its a bit rude to write 'TL;DR', but we're all prefectly free to think it and click a link, which is all it really amount to.
Two points for clarity: I have nothing against Roo or his telecaster issues repressed telecaster love. It was just an example of an outspoken member who I feel makes the board a better place.
For the record, I like long posts! Quite often I'll skip through a thread of them if they get too lengthy but when I have the time I quite like to read a well written and coherent argument, from any viewpoint.
Might be worth bearing in mind that (being a little deaf) I don't spend much time time in the on topic bits, where a long post is often full of valuable information for whoever answered the question. I know you do a lot of recording work and if I had an audio query a wall of text from you is exactly what I'm after! I'm better acquainted with the longer ones that crop up in time out/dressing room. A good example of the kind of thread that could be moved is the Hitchens thread- within a few replies it had got into a civil but long winded conversation that (judging by this thread) turns some other forumites off.
Of course there are other threads that exist in a more grey area.
I'll take you up on two things.
Firstly, my impression the is that increasingly this forum is getting abusive- sometimes involving long term members with many posts. Also I don't think I can just ignore threads where this kind of thing goes on. What if an interesting topic gets hijacked by people scr@pping over a pretty tangential subject? Secondly, even in threads that you don't read, arguments beget arguments and it lowers the tone of the whole board.
I agree that extra moderation is a pain in the arse for BKP and the posters alike, but I do fear that in its present state the board will not continue to be the polite and welcoming place it once was and still is. I figure the idea of a politics, religion, science and debate board is not to encourage or discourage any particular kind of discourse, but to allow people who want to debate to do it away from the others (preferably with a "don't make it personal" policy).
I'll keep any further responses to PMs or a separate thread before us wall-of-texters engulf this thread too :lol:
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Maybe banning discussions on religion and politics, as on other boards is the answer to this one. That way we can avoid giving free expression to the dreaded 'psuedo' intellectuals that congregate here - instead we can get endless posts in the off topic areas about about Youtube funnies and stereo/car/bike/camera/DVD, etc collections.
What I find totally annoying is when someone will post 'What is a good cheap OD?' and get a recommendation for a £160 bootique metal pedal that is the flavour of the month on the Gear Page or 'What is the best speaker for this sound, please no Celestions' and get the reply 'Howabout a V30?'. To me these sort of answers are like not being listened to.
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those answers arent like not being listened to they ARE not being listened to.
I personally would prefer it if there was a seperate subforum for anything that could cause offense leaving the rest of the forum "normal" so to speak
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Well it has been done before - I remember an old board I belonged to were there was a password only 'contentious' sub forum (where the password was 'contentious' - so people who wanted to be like the three monkeys didn't feel obliged to enter) :D
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Its always been the latter Dave but you said it, it's the trolling that's getting some of us down.
yeah, but i mean if you're on the internet there are probably going to be trolls... i'm not sure how you avoid them. if anything this forum has fewer than pretty much any other forum i've been on. :)
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(a) Maybe banning discussions on religion and politics, as on other boards is the answer to this one. That way we can avoid giving free expression to the dreaded 'psuedo' intellectuals that congregate here - instead we can get endless posts in the off topic areas about about Youtube funnies and stereo/car/bike/camera/DVD, etc collections.
(b) What I find totally annoying is when someone will post 'What is a good cheap OD?' and get a recommendation for a £160 bootique metal pedal that is the flavour of the month on the Gear Page or 'What is the best speaker for this sound, please no Celestions' and get the reply 'Howabout a V30?'. To me these sort of answers are like not being listened to.
(a) I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but isn't calling people "pseudo-intellectuals" actually pretty rude and likely to cause the kind of strife you're supposedly so at pains to avoid? :lol:
I mean, I know I'm probably biased (no more than anyone else, though) as I'm probably one of the ones you guys are complaining about, but a lot of the people complaining about how rude the place has got have been making posts in this thread (and elsewhere) that i'd also consider to be just as rude, if not ruder.
and also, while we're at it, while i like a funny youtube vid as much as teh next person, a lot of those other things i have no interest in. I'm not saying to ban them or anything (i just don't go into the thread, maybe that's a useful tactic for everyone who's complaining), but i am sorta interested in the political ones.
"But the politics threads cause fights!"
Well, last time i checked that bike thread was one of the worst offenders for causing fights (and i actually managed to avoid getting involved, so it also lets me feel pretty pleased with myself).
I also don't want this place to turn into tgp. i think that goes without saying. :lol:
(b) agreed. but again, like the trolls, that happens anywhere.
maybe we should have a reading comprehension exam before people can register? :lol:
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Maybe banning discussions on religion and politics, as on other boards is the answer to this one. That way we can avoid giving free expression to the dreaded 'psuedo' intellectuals that congregate here - instead we can get endless posts in the off topic areas about about Youtube funnies and stereo/car/bike/camera/DVD, etc collections.
I prefer the religio-political (is that a word? Or a pseudo-word?) discussions to the YouTube funnies threads, on the whole.
But we can all ignore whatever's not of interest. I'm not in favour of discouraging any kind of discussion.
Blimey, hasn't this thread grown wings in the last few days?
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Ive decided to make this thread music related again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-1Dbc1TH8c
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Marco Sfogli ROCKS !!!! 8)
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Dave, on (a), I think elliot was being sarcastic. + 1 and well put if so.
I've tried to avoid thinking, let alone posting about the anti-intellectual thread (intentional :P) running through the objections to some of the discussion here. Sorry chaps, but 'Its too clever I dont like it' isnt a valid reason to curtail "free expression". Apparently one mans stimulating (hehe) discussion is anothers tedium. To some, tedium is "Youtube funnies and stereo/car/bike/camera/DVD, etc collections". Some people that accidentally walk in on a stimulating discussion (hehe), mistake it for a confrontational argument. If to the participants a discussion is not antagonistic, but you see it that way, that really says more about you than about the discussion.
Bob,
"but I do fear that in its present state the board will not continue to be the polite and welcoming place it once was and still is"
Pure speculation.
"I figure the idea of a politics, religion, science and debate board is not to encourage or discourage any particular kind of discourse, but to allow people who want to debate to do it away from the others"
Do it away from others? Like debate is something you should keep hidden behind closed doors? Shall we have a "Dont ask dont tell" policy if youre a "Debater"? :lol: No, you are trying to encourage particular discourse and discourage others, quite blatently: debate is a kind of discourse.
I would like to go on on the anti-intellectual current here, but the full response would likely be disproportionate (as good a forum as this is, its just an internet forum), and I tried to keep my objections earlier to the most diplomatic I can think of. I'll leave it at this: I find it quite fundamentally offensive to try to curtail, inhibit or isolate any mode of discussion, however "pseudo intellectual" or tedious and banal, save when it becomes openly personally hostile. I would have thought this was just common sense.
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(a) Dave, on (a), I think elliot was being sarcastic. + 1 and well put if so.
(b) I've tried to avoid thinking, let alone posting about the anti-intellectual thread (intentional :P) running through the objections to some of the discussion here. Sorry chaps, but 'Its too clever I dont like it' isnt a valid reason to curtail "free expression". Apparently one mans stimulating (hehe) discussion is anothers tedium. To some, tedium is "Youtube funnies and stereo/car/bike/camera/DVD, etc collections". Some people that accidentally walk in on a stimulating discussion (hehe), mistake it for a confrontational argument. If to the participants a discussion is not antagonistic, but you see it that way, that really says more about you than about the discussion.
(c) Bob,
"but I do fear that in its present state the board will not continue to be the polite and welcoming place it once was and still is"
Pure speculation.
"I figure the idea of a politics, religion, science and debate board is not to encourage or discourage any particular kind of discourse, but to allow people who want to debate to do it away from the others"
Do it away from others? Like debate is something you should keep hidden behind closed doors? Shall we have a "Dont ask dont tell" policy if youre a "Debater"? :lol: No, you are trying to encourage particular discourse and discourage others, quite blatently: debate is a kind of discourse.
I would like to go on on the anti-intellectual current here, but the full response would likely be disproportionate (as good a forum as this is, its just an internet forum), and I tried to keep my objections earlier to the most diplomatic I can think of. I'll leave it at this: I find it quite fundamentally offensive to try to curtail or inhibit any mode of discussion, however "pseudo intellectual" or tedious and banal, save when it becomes openly personally hostile. I would have thought this was just common sense.
(a) ah maybe :oops: if so, :lol: and sorry :oops: If not, I stand by what I said :)
(b) good point, agreed :)
(c) lol at the "don't ask, don't tell" thing :lol:
and again, good points- agreed. :)
I would also say that, occasionally (and not even just here, or mainly here- this happens as much if not more often in real life) someone makes a point which is quite offensive, or controversial, or which is intended to bait a certain type of person- and then when someone responds (if only to call the person on what, to them, is false logic), the person who responds is labelled the troublemaker.
I don't think it's fair when that happens. if you make a point you should have evidence to back it up and be willing to defend it.
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I said I'd do this in PMs but I lied. :lol:
Pure speculation.
Well obviously, being an extremely complex nonlinear system. Surely no more speculative than saying "the forum will manage fine" though? (which I'm presuming to be your reading of it)
No, you are trying to encourage particular discourse and discourage others, quite blatently: debate is a kind of discourse.
hmmm... now this I really don't understand. Having separate Guitar and off-topic subforums doesn't discourage discussion of off topic or guitar subjects, it's just a filing system so that people can enjoy the forums more easily by finding threads they want to read. It seems obvious to me, reading this thread, that some people prefer off topic to be light hearted and others prefer it to be a place where one can have debates. Splitting off-topic according to those preferences isn't discriminatory; to me it's utilitarian. No one is censored. Maybe the idea of mods moving stuff around and interfering in our discussion is what's putting you off, which I could relate to more. I suppose it could be self moderating? If a cat video starts to generate long posts on climate change there's nothing to stop one of the participants opening a "global warming" thread in the debate board and writing "discussion moved" in the cat video thread.
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I think when debates gets out of hand then emotional thinking takes over logical thinking.
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er... aren't there already "off topic" and "off topic off topic" forums? :lol:
Not that anyone (including me) really seems to differentiate much between the two, but still, i mean they are there.
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I wouldn't mind having (Off topic)Nth boards where N is the degree of Off topic-ness...
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er... aren't there already "off topic" and "off topic off topic" forums? :lol:
Not that anyone (including me) really seems to differentiate much between the two, but still, i mean they are there.
Yes, and yes. That should show how little we care for distinctions between 'off topic' posts on here.
Debate isnt topics, bob, its a kind of discourse. All things are open for debate, including on topic posts, which have (rightly) involved long and sometimes technical discussions and have had sober, civil argumentative disgreement (and more rarely, havent, but we tend to iron ourselves out like adults, and I dont see that that should change). A 'politics and religion' board wouldnt remove debating from anything else (the cyclist thread for example would have still been rightly started in an OT board rather than a serious matters board), and nor should it. And besides, such topics are very rare here, its not like the front page of time out is dominated by it; theres one thread, and its the first I remember on it in months. I think the last one was for Popefest. I think its pointless, and is just trying to tailor discussion to certain tastes.
I dont want to see this forum end up like SS.org, UG or TGP where civility is maintained by authority because enough of the occupants are uptight or immature (or both). Its not needed, which is something we should be proud of.
Lezard: :lol:
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I dont want to see this forum end up like SS.org, UG or TGP where civility is maintained by authority because enough of the occupants are uptight or immature (or both). Its not needed, which is something we should be proud of.
Amen (or equivalent secular term) to that.
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Debate isnt topics, bob, its a kind of discourse.
Which is why I'm not suggesting splitting boards on the basis of topic; I'm suggesting splitting them on the basis of the type of discussion happening within. To that end, I probably should have referred to it as the "debate" board rather than "politics, religion, science and debate" board (although those are the things it would inevitably going to be full of).
Anyway, the idea doesn't seem that popular. Never mind. I think my impression of the state of the board has been swayed by returning from hiatus to find the cycling and Ed Roman threads and twilight odyssey has left in part due to "childish behaviour", which hopefully is just a bit of a blip.
Regards the cycling thread; in future can we all agree not to open threads with threats to murder each other? Hardly sets the scene for level headed and good natured discussion does it :lol:
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Hmmm .
I don't feel I ever had any issues with civil differences of opinion on the forum.
I never had any problems with blocks of text - never really felt TL-DR about any of them or if I did it was only because I maybe found the subject interesting and some punctuation and paragraph separation would make for easier reading.
If it was simply something that held no interest for me I could just ignore the subject.
I don't feel any need for a new separate section for heavyweight topics - especially as things have gotten heavyweight in subjects as everyday as cyclists, fare dodgers on trains, the death of a contentious or controversial person etc
Debate and discussion are good and healthy where they occur and all parties are able to consider each others viewpoints and also able to re-consider their own viewpoints as a result of the discussion.
I don't want a sycophantic neutered forum where it can all get a bit samey samey after a while.
This forum has actually always been very good at self policing, from all different angles : from members respecting others and knowing when to dial it down a touch , or as Dave Mc said knowing when not to post something for the sake of not having tempers flare, or sometimes members suggesting to others to let things go a bit, or occasionally to a bit of gentle moderation.
Usually the only time it gets ugly is if you get a newbie who is so overjoyed to be here that they let themselves down or get into arguments with others almost straight away, and eventually a few others tell them to shut up, sit down and chill a bit, if they want to stay and make friends - or leave if they don't want to play nice
What I object to is debate as a HOBBY - where one or more parties brings regular debate to the forum BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO DEBATE OR ARGUE rather than because they have a differing viewpoint that they feel is very important to seeking the truth in the matter being discussed.
This is what gets very tiresome to me and I suspect to some of the others who have expressed similar feelings.
Whilst there will always be times now and then where a hot topic will get debated (which as I said is healthy), it does become very noticeable if it's always the same person that brings the DEBATE and seems to be happy to bring out the BIG GUNS no mater what subject is on the table - just for the fun of debate.
It brings something too heavyweight to the forum that is a turn off for me - it's almost like a soap opera.
I would suggest that if heavy debate is something in your blood that you need to do - seek out forums designed for just that.
A 5 second peek on Google threw up :http://www.ukdebate.co.uk/forums/ (http://www.ukdebate.co.uk/forums/) as a typical debating forum
There may be much better ones too - if such things interest you.
However maybe debates over the properties of pickups and players using certain pickups would be more fun.
Here's one - if Hendrix had always played Gibson guitars with humbuckers would his legend & influence have been as strong as it was through his mainly playing strats
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Is it ironic that I've used my ability to ignore threads to pretty much ignore this one debating debates and verbose posting?
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Is it ironic that I've used my ability to ignore threads to pretty much ignore this one debating debates and verbose posting?
Ironic - possibly
Maybe you have more willpower or ability to compartmentalise and ignore stuff that doesn't interest you.
I wish I had that more at times.
There have been times where sat in a restaurant with a couple at the next table having a heated and moody argument has caused me to feel uncomfortable & agitated, whilst my girlfriend or other friends can just ignore it or block it out, and don't see that it is a problem.
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Regards the cycling thread; in future can we all agree not to open threads with threats to murder each other? Hardly sets the scene for level headed and good natured discussion does it :lol:
To be honest I think it was the thread title that started that whole thread off on completely the wrong foot. I'm pretty sure I remember reading it was intended as tongue in cheek (don't want to read through that whole thread again just to back up whatI have written) but obviously it had the opposite effect. Perhaps it would have been more civil with a more reasonable title - but then again it may not have been.
I do try to steer clear of posting controversial stuff but failed to on the "No Ticket" thread. Perhaps I'm one of those forum members who posts stuff from youtube without thinking of what the possible future repercussions of it on the forum are. I think I'll stick to "Cat chase Dog" type vids if I post any again!
However maybe debates over the properties of pickups and players using certain pickups would be more fun.
Here's one - if Hendrix had always played Gibson guitars with humbuckers would his legend & influence have been as strong as it was through his mainly playing strats
This is a thread I would probably enjoy reading up on and contributing to - mainly because I love Hendrix and all things guitar in general and don't think I would get lost even if there was a long and verbose post about it!
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There have been times where sat in a restaurant with a couple at the next table having a heated and moody argument has caused me to feel uncomfortable & agitated, whilst my girlfriend or other friends can just ignore it or block it out, and don't see that it is a problem.
This happens to me a lot. Was out the other night with a mate and a couple that he had his back to were having a domestic. I found myself listening to them quite a bit more than I should have done. Very nosey of me!
Also, not sure if there is a technical term for it but I started a new page with my previous response meaning yours was left on an older page - apologies.
I don't like to be the last to post on a page as I know that quite often (for me anyway) stuff gets missed when the next post comes in shortly after. Maybe it's just my short attention span in that I don't always flick back a page to see what other responses were recently posted.
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I know the ignore user feature was in the V2.0 release candidate of the simple machines forum and is in the V2.0.* releases. However if you look at the arse of this page we're on V1.1.14.
Mods/admin, can you upgrade the forum software to a newer release? People can choose to look at or ignore whoever they want then.
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Yes, and yes. That should show how little we care for distinctions between 'off topic' posts on here.
Debate isnt topics, bob, its a kind of discourse. All things are open for debate, including on topic posts, which have (rightly) involved long and sometimes technical discussions and have had sober, civil argumentative disgreement (and more rarely, havent, but we tend to iron ourselves out like adults, and I dont see that that should change). A 'politics and religion' board wouldnt remove debating from anything else (the cyclist thread for example would have still been rightly started in an OT board rather than a serious matters board), and nor should it. And besides, such topics are very rare here, its not like the front page of time out is dominated by it; theres one thread, and its the first I remember on it in months. I think the last one was for Popefest. I think its pointless, and is just trying to tailor discussion to certain tastes.
I dont want to see this forum end up like SS.org, UG or TGP where civility is maintained by authority because enough of the occupants are uptight or immature (or both). Its not needed, which is something we should be proud of.
Lezard: :lol:
yep, definitely, good point- as you said, the cycling thread (which is the one i'm guessing most people are talking about) isn't actually political or religious at all, and even if you had separate politics/religion subforums it would still have been in one of the OT forums.
Also i seem to remember getting into a pretty big argument, ages ago, in the guitars/amps/effects part of this site, so as you also rightly said, staying on topic is no guarantee of civility either :lol:
fwiw UG is actually alright once you get to know the rules and how to stay just the right side of them. I get off with saying a fair bit over there :lol:
but yeah certainly somewhere like tgp where certain things are totally off-limits is no fun at all (at least on UG, while there's strong moderation, politics and religion aren't off-limits).
Which isn't to say that turning into a free-for-all like HC (or at least certain sections of HC) would be any more fun- I don't want the place like that, either :lol:
good post too, jonathan/feline, agreed.
I mean I enjoy getting into (civil) arguments/debates about current affairs and things like that, but i wouldn't call it a hobby, and I'm certainly not taking part *so* I can get to argue, just more to sometimes provide a bit of balance with the other (my) viewpoint. I don't, as far as i can remember, think i've ever actually started one of the contentious threads either, just sometimes taken part when someone else started them.
:)
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However maybe debates over the properties of pickups and players using certain pickups would be more fun.
Here's one - if Hendrix had always played Gibson guitars with humbuckers would his legend & influence have been as strong as it was through his mainly playing strats
I think it would have been, yes.
The dude managed to look damn well godlike no matter what he was playing.
And the Gibsons he did play were pretty iconic in their own right:
(http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.7947996.2750/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg)
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/22002073/Jimi%20Hendrix%20Jimi%20wLes%20Paul.gif)(http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/119519.gif)
(http://www.photofeatures.com/jimihendrix/images/prevs/jimi-hendrix-70-047a.jpg)
(http://gallery.qthemusic.com/uploads/images/810x540/634562816201171603.jpg)
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Don't really have much to say on what's been posted since I was last online.
What I will say though, since several posts have been directed at me, either specifically or in part as one of several "guilty parties", is that yes, I do enjoy debate. I think it's fun and it helps you learn. Having your own ideas challenged. I genuinely find it quite hard to understand the idea of not thinking it's fun. That said, to my knowledged I've never once started a thread for that purpose, nor do I think I'm particularly guilty of starting debate, rather I make a point of giving an alternate opinion to what someone has said if I think it's worth doing - especially if it's been echoed by a few others and I think another perspective is warranted to add balance.
If other folks think I'm deliberately antagonistic or whatever, well, I disagree and it'd be a bit disappointing to be thought of as a "problem-poster" or whatever, but by all means carry on thinking so because my approach isn't likely to change. It's not like it's sore.
I think a separated forum for debating wouldn't make any odds for the same reasons as previous posters, and I think a mod-monitored avoidance of "debate" would really make the forum a boring place, not to mention be near unenforceable - you need to decide at what point two competing opinions become a debate, aside from anything else. And then fret whenever someone says "Set necks resonate better than bolt-ons..."
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That said, to my knowledged I've never once started a thread for that purpose, nor do I think I'm particularly guilty of starting debate, rather I make a point of giving an alternate opinion to what someone has said if I think it's worth doing - especially if it's been echoed by a few others and I think another perspective is warranted to add balance.
If other folks think I'm deliberately antagonistic or whatever, well, I disagree and it'd be a bit disappointing to be thought of as a "problem-poster" or whatever, but by all means carry on thinking so because my approach isn't likely to change. It's not like it's sore.
yeah, that's kinda what i was saying. if someone makes a thread/post with a controversial point of view and several other posters echo it, the person who points out that that post/thread was controversial is hardly the troublemaker, in my book. And even if the post which is for balance is controversial too, it hardly makes him/her any more to blame than the person who posted first (arguably less so, if you ask me- if someone punches you in the face and you punch back does that make you worse than the person who initially threw the unprovoked punch?).
I just think it's dangerous if people try to pretend there's a consensus (when there isn't), and then try to act like anyone who doesn't agree with that consensus is a troublemaker. that's pretty convenient.
^ ^ makes you wonder why he didn't just use a v all the time, would have been the easiest one to play "backwards", surely :lol:
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I have found very useful some of the information that Ben shared all of these years, I think he is after a Tonequest like everybody here, I aquired the Splawn amp based on his reviews, and also a Fuzz pedal, but mostly it was all the technical insight that I recall the most!!... very detailed and useful, and the debates were around that. It's all about the Tone for sure!!!
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Mini guide to winning a debate with nfe: Use fallacies based on stereotypes relating to Scotland, long hair, beards and extreme metal in the form of intellectual propaganda to devalue his well written, well researched and referenced debating.
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This thread has turned into some sort of god damn hippy love-in!
:shock:
MORE ANGER REQUIRED!
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This thread has turned into some sort of god damn hippy love-in!
:shock:
MORE ANGER REQUIRED!
I haven't read any of it because I'm too busy being f**king sexy and playing badass riffs that chicks dig so I frankly don't care....
I don't like gypsies or djent or gypsies who don't buy train tickets & probably like djent so watch this then...
http://youtu.be/jDtvzuG5Maw
F**K OFF on your bicycles!
(any good?)
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This thread has turned into some sort of god damn hippy love-in!
:shock:
MORE ANGER REQUIRED!
I haven't read any of it because I'm too busy being f**king sexy and playing badass riffs that chicks dig so I frankly don't care....
I don't like gypsies or djent or gypsies who don't buy train tickets & probably like djent so watch this then...
http://youtu.be/jDtvzuG5Maw
F**K OFF on your bicycles!
(any good?)
Balance is restored :D
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Mini guide to winning a debate with nfe: Use fallacies based on stereotypes relating to Scotland, long hair, beards and extreme metal in the form of intellectual propaganda to devalue his well written, well researched and referenced debating.
ahahahahahahaha
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Oh dear... oh dear... what have I done... I... I couldn't help it.... :?
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=26556.0
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I would however like to see some BKP products aimed at the rock market though, there does seem to have been a glut of humbuckers aimed at the br00talz market lately.
Something that fills the Wide Range humbucker market would be cool and maybe something that does the big open PAF sound with a higher output would be cool (like the 15k type of affair I've been using from another pickup mfr for some time now). The Abraxas is very close on that score, but its also a little dark (nothing that the amp's EQ can't fix though).
I am looking forward to Tims answers to the Q&A which should be up soon
i asked if there was more of a potential market for the 9 string humbuckers that he is working on and having to have parts specially made as opposed to demand for things such as mini hum buckers and wide range hum buckers.
I know that 2012 will bring a few variants that aren't all brootalz
there is the Jaguar pickups that have been promised
The blackhawk isn't apparently all about brootalz and djent it seems - will be good to see what that is about.
I would like to see a couple of pickup variants that offer the weaker end of the spectrum
Because i like 1960s era Rolling stones and I find the mini hum buckers sound good for that sound , I wondered if there was a way to make that happen in a full size hum-bucker , or even something with a slight Gretsch like tone - whether you want rockabilly twang, AC/DC crunch or ZZ Top raunchiness
I would like to see Firebird and mini HBs in time too
Good point, a Gretschy type of pickup would be interesting indeed.
I do also quite like the idea of a P90 type tone in a Tele bridge package, so food for thought...
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Oh dear... oh dear... what have I done... I... I couldn't help it.... :?
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=26556.0
I was gonna join in this 'sexy girl with guitar' picture deal, but all I could find was this lass laying on her back...
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3657/3479835269_0cb156ca97_z.jpg?zz=1)
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same with this one, I'm having no luck...
(http://www.pulsarwallpapers.com/data/media/1041/sara_jean_underwood01-chicasybikinis1.jpg)
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Ooooooo. I'd like to kiss her face
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aaaaaaaaaaahhhh BK thread diversions.
If there should be any rule round here it should be that a topic doesnt stay on topic. We should have no trouble following that :lol:
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same with this one, I'm having no luck...
(http://www.pulsarwallpapers.com/data/media/1041/sara_jean_underwood01-chicasybikinis1.jpg)
C'mon Ian
You've seen less clothes on girls in Big Market on a Saturday night
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C'mon Ian
You've seen less clothes on girls in Big Market on a Saturday night
Been a couple of years since I've been down the bigg market, but I can't remember the girls looking anything like that - even if they were wearing less :lol:
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Clothes like this you mean?
http://www.slideshare.net/rado_fun/english-vs-swedish-clubbing
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same with this one, I'm having no luck...
(http://www.pulsarwallpapers.com/data/media/1041/sara_jean_underwood01-chicasybikinis1.jpg)
C'mon Ian
You've seen less clothes on girls in Big Market on a Saturday night
what she's wearing is called a coat in Newcastle :lol:
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I have found very useful some of the information that Ben shared all of these years, I think he is after a Tonequest like everybody here, I aquired the Splawn amp based on his reviews, and also a Fuzz pedal, but mostly it was all the technical insight that I recall the most!!... very detailed and useful, and the debates were around that. It's all about the Tone for sure!!!
I ordered my custom Feline guitar from Jonathan after chatting with Ben at the LGS back in 2006. He said "Get what you want man, you only die once" :D
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Clothes like this you mean?
http://www.slideshare.net/rado_fun/english-vs-swedish-clubbing
It's so sad, when I spot 2 gucci bags in the Swedish pictures
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Clothes like this you mean?
http://www.slideshare.net/rado_fun/english-vs-swedish-clubbing
It's so sad, when I spot 2 gucci bags in the Swedish pictures
So you were looking at the handbags...well indeed sad. But I´d pitty you more if you looked at the faces in the british one.
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While it's pretty clear that this thread has been effectively derailed, I would like to say that as a newcomer to this forum, it has been extremely refreshing to see the level of civility and maturity displayed on this forum. I think most of the perceived problems are arising from the annoying, immature types who are finally entering the forum.
That being said, please don't assume all newcomers are like that, some of us are just here to enjoy the conversation :D
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqEwqkeO8iI/Td_nZ62AO-I/AAAAAAAAB8U/CJYpPzHVjd4/s800/sexy-guitar-stand.jpg)
Now that's a guitar stand :wink:
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While we post these pics: Anyone here know of wetriffs.com?^^
It´s a fun site based on this http://xkcd.com/305/ (http://xkcd.com/305/) comic.
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Good god man... why did you suggest that site?
Though, I did find this awesome picture of shobet...
(http://imgs.wetriffs.com/2b0137c5d70395a7da8b20eff6dd8049.jpg)
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It's probably too late for a response to this topic now it's gone SO far off track with the pictures...
I hope everyone here realises that I don't mean any offense by my occasional outbursts. Although I do recognise that occasionally they may cause offense, I find it very cathartic to vent from time to time, and at least I find in general on these forums people come up with amusing, witty retorts.
I apologise if I've caused any offense. Unless you like telecasters or the beatles, that is. :)
Roo
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Good god man... why did you suggest that site?
Knew you´d like it^^
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It's probably too late for a response to this topic now it's gone SO far off track with the pictures...
I hope everyone here realises that I don't mean any offense by my occasional outbursts. Although I do recognise that occasionally they may cause offense, I find it very cathartic to vent from time to time, and at least I find in general on these forums people come up with amusing, witty retorts.
I apologise if I've caused any offense. Unless you like telecasters or the beatles, that is. :)
Roo
So mashed potatoes are back on the menu?
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It's probably too late for a response to this topic now it's gone SO far off track with the pictures...
I hope everyone here realises that I don't mean any offense by my occasional outbursts. Although I do recognise that occasionally they may cause offense, I find it very cathartic to vent from time to time, and at least I find in general on these forums people come up with amusing, witty retorts.
I apologise if I've caused any offense. Unless you like telecasters or the beatles, that is. :)
Roo
So mashed potatoes are back on the menu?
Judging by the overwhelming number of backhand compliments thrown my way in this thread, I'd guess they were never off the menu.
Never been on my menu, of course. I'm not a sicko :)
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i just saw the pic afghan posted and i'm still wtfing
i'm also struggling to comprehend how he's managed to make a fashion faux-pas while wearing so few clothes (white socks with black shoes :lol: )
also that pic of the woman with the pink guitar leaning against her 0_0 wow
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also that pic of the woman with the pink guitar leaning against her 0_0 wow
Yeah i´d really like to play with too.
To avoid confusion I´d like to play with that pink thing of hers...I hope that clears things up.
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i just saw the pic afghan posted and i'm still wtfing
i'm also struggling to comprehend how he's managed to make a fashion faux-pas while wearing so few clothes (white socks with black shoes :lol: )
Imagine if your mate asked you to take a quick picture of them took their clothes off then said..
"Guitar... check. Gun... check. Boots.. check. White Sox... check. Bandana... check. Indian tommahawk... check. What am I... missing...
Mmmm...
A motherf**kin' Chalice! "
ROCK!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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ahahahahaha i didn't even notice the chalice
yeah it is the icing on the top :lol:
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Ooooooo. I'd like to kiss her face
ooh I'd love to have it off with her :lol:
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Oooooh... She's nicer than my wife etc. etc. :)
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and of course she was first in the queue when god was handing out chests - or mammory glands.
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ahahahahaha i didn't even notice the chalice
yeah it is the icing on the top :lol:
Agreed, that pic just wouldn't work at all without the chalice. *nods*
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:lol:
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Sad to see Ben leave. I've always respected his opinion. I wish him the best.
I have been on the site for a while and have noticed a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The constant bickering is getting annoying. Especially on a guitar related forum.
Off-Topic has gone Off-Off-Off-Off-topic these days...
If I were to have come to this site today...I would have been turned off....and may have went elsewhere...
*****There are still many members that give valuable information and don't get sucked into the my c**k is bigger than yours discussions***** I would like to say THANK YOU, PLEASE DON'T LEAVE !!!!!!!
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Most of this has been well, well trodden in the previous nine pages, but:
I have been on the site for a while and have noticed a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers.
Who? Of the folks who are generally involved in the more debate-led threads, I'd struggle to name one that has no input elsewhere. But then I don't think any of them/us could be sensibly accused of "ruffling feathers" anyway.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The constant bickering is getting annoying. Especially on a guitar related forum.
It's hardly constant. Far, far from it. In recent times I can think of the bicycle thread the Ed Roman thread, this one and one that got onto faith. That's it.
Off-Topic has gone Off-Off-Off-Off-topic these days...
Can you have off-off-topic? Either it's about guitars or it's not, surely?
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Most of this has been well, well trodden in the previous nine pages, but:
I have been on the site for a while and have noticed a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers.
Who? Of the folks who are generally involved in the more debate-led threads, I'd struggle to name one that has no input elsewhere. But then I don't think any of them/us could be sensibly accused of "ruffling feathers" anyway.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The constant bickering is getting annoying. Especially on a guitar related forum.
It's hardly constant. Far, far from it. In recent times I can think of the bicycle thread the Ed Roman thread, this one and one that got onto faith. That's it.
Off-Topic has gone Off-Off-Off-Off-topic these days...
Can you have off-off-topic? Either it's about guitars or it's not, surely?
Ah, yes...what a surprise...
Thank you for ripping apart my post and questioning everything I feel.
Your first line says it all "Most of this has been well, well trodden in the previous nine pages, but"...
Funny, I did not realize there was a page limit for me to express my own comments.
It's remarks like this that are constantly surfacing on this forum. They have not it previous years.
True, members picked on each other and were offensive...but it was great and made for a more laid back "Pub like atmosphere"...but now you can't post without getting sarcastic remarks and your thoughts broken down and questioned. (yes, I know its not every single post but its getting worse)
I really mean no offense but your posts in particular to me have gotten more in your face..I use to enjoy reading your posts and ideas, but now its like your posts are...i'm right your wrong...and ...i feel this way, and if you don't your dumb...
maybe it's just me and i'm reading into this more than I should........
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Most of this has been well, well trodden in the previous nine pages, but:
I have been on the site for a while and have noticed a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers.
Who? Of the folks who are generally involved in the more debate-led threads, I'd struggle to name one that has no input elsewhere. But then I don't think any of them/us could be sensibly accused of "ruffling feathers" anyway.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The constant bickering is getting annoying. Especially on a guitar related forum.
It's hardly constant. Far, far from it. In recent times I can think of the bicycle thread the Ed Roman thread, this one and one that got onto faith. That's it.
Off-Topic has gone Off-Off-Off-Off-topic these days...
Can you have off-off-topic? Either it's about guitars or it's not, surely?
Ah, yes...what a surprise...
Thank you for ripping apart my post and questioning everything I feel.
Your first line says it all "Most of this has been well, well trodden in the previous nine pages, but"...
Funny, I did not realize there was a page limit for me to express my own comments.
It's remarks like this that are constantly surfacing on this forum. They have not it previous years.
True, members picked on each other and were offensive...but it was great and made for a more laid back "Pub like atmosphere"...but now you can't post without getting sarcastic remarks and your thoughts broken down and questioned. (yes, I know its not every single post but its getting worse)
I really mean no offense but your posts in particular to me have gotten more in your face..I use to enjoy reading your posts and ideas, but now its like your posts are...i'm right your wrong...and ...i feel this way, and if you don't your dumb...
maybe it's just me and i'm reading into this more than I should........
There is obviously no deadline as to when you must air your views by, but my point was that everything you've said has been discussed at some length in the thread and I think, for the most part, refuted - nobody here is only antagonistic and the more, say, volatile, threads are infrequent, they're just usually long and feature mostly the same well-informed, reasonable folks. They perhaps seem more common than they are because they remain near the top of the otherwise pretty quiet off topic forums for a while at a time and are oft filled with verbose posts.
As for ripping your post apart and questioning everything you feel, I responded to three points, clearly directed at me amongst others so I think I've every right, and I asked two specific questions pertinent to what you were saying. It's a forum, it exists for asking questions of each other when people state their ideas, no?
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There is obviously no deadline as to when you must air your views by, but my point was that everything you've said has been discussed at some length in the thread and I think, for the most part, refuted...
I think that's his point. His "feelings" can't and probably shouldn't be "refuted".
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His feelings, no, factual statements, yes - "a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers" and "The constant bickering" aren't feelings, they're not even really subjective.
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His feelings, no, factual statements, yes - "a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers" and "The constant bickering" aren't feelings, they're not even really subjective.
yes, i will agree that those statements were a little over the top...and that heated threads will be on page one as opposed to the random post that moves to page two quickly....
but surely you can not say that this forum is the same as before and that only 2 threads got out of hand.
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Hmm i see what you are saying but that is how he is expressing how he feels.
But i can see all points in this.
I personally think that this thread should be locked and or deleted.
it looks really bad.
If i had first come onto this forum today and read about a member leaving and then having 11 pages following it with reasons as to why then evidence to back it up with some girly pics thrown in for good measure to lighten the mood.
I would probably never come back
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His feelings, no, factual statements, yes - "a lot of members that have no input on anything besides ruffling feathers" and "The constant bickering" aren't feelings, they're not even really subjective.
yes, i will agree that those statements were a little over the top...and that heated threads will be on page one as opposed to the random post that moves to page two quickly....
but surely you can not say that this forum is the same as before and that only 2 threads got out of hand.
I mentioned the four threads I could recall in recent times that became debates. I don't think any got out of hand - things need to be seen in context, this forum is unbelievably civil compared to every other one I've ever used. It's not the sycophantic place it was when I joined (and barely posted because of) where threads that weren't about guitars were pretty much all "Listen to my new song!" and heaps of well-intentioned but usually misleading praise following it. I think it's all the better for it. Those threads that err towards the political/contentious often have debate in them - as you'd expect, but most don't at all - and that's how things should be. It's really good that people feel they can question each other and don't feel compelled to be yes-men all the time. Which is really how it seemed to me at the point of joining - I signed up to ask about a pickup like most folks but virtually never posted because it felt like a Stepford Wives guitar forum.
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It's Tim's forum. It's paid for by BKP. We respect that, which is why we don't actively promote other makers products and speak well of the BKP team, their products and other forum members.
If you see that as sycophantic then I think you have a problem, nfe...
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That's not remotely what I mean.
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It comes to something when it's me saying it:
ENOUGH!
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It comes to something when it's me saying it:
ENOUGH!
Agreed! :)
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OK, I think everyone would agree this thread has run its course.