Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Madsakre on January 22, 2012, 10:31:11 AM
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I've always wanted one. Which ones should i look after? I want one made of a solid piece, no chambering. Ebony board.
I would really like a custom or a traditional. Any1 of you who knows which generations i should look after?
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I've always wanted one. Which ones should i look after? I want one made of a solid piece, no chambering. Ebony board.
I would really like a custom or a traditional. Any1 of you who knows which generations i should look after?
Early 90s studio is a very cheap way in. £300 upwards with the same electronics and hardware as the customs of the time. The issues are in the cosmetics rather than tone.
They are very heavy though and mine had a poor finish which is now goosed anyway.
Regarding a traditional, not sure if they have the ebony board
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I know a bit about the current range, but not so much about the history of when they started using chambering/weight relief and on which models.
LP Traditionals are all solid wood, but they're Standards, not Customs, so no ebony board.
I believe they use ebony boards on White LP Studios, because they found rosewood bled into the white finish. The current Studios are weight-relieved, though, I believe.
I think Customs are usually solid, but the current (custom shop) "production" Custom model does have weight relief. If you can stretch to the custom shop vintage reissues (e.g. VOS) they're all solid.
Do you definitely want a Gibson, or would you consider MIJ "copies"?
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Just like Philly Q said, you're best bet are probably various limited run Gibson LP studios, as they are most likely to be without chambering but a ebony fretboard. The bigger problem, as I see it, that they'll sound different, due to different constructions.
ESP has made very few LTD models with ebony, but you see one or two ESP Eclipses with ebony boards show up on Ebay from time to time and they go for very reasonable prices.
Maybe you could specify a bit more what you are looking for, tonally and optically.
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Like Philly mentions MIJ Japan Les Pauls are not be overlooked: Greco, Orville, Tokai, Edwards.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM) any of you tried this one?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM) any of you tried this one?
No. My guess is they made like 50 of that and about 4-5 ever made it to Europe. In other words, very rare.
I take it you are more after the visual of the LesPaul, less the tone of it, am I right?
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theres one for sale in denmark :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHUb-V3HUzM) any of you tried this one?
So the solid body and ebony board weren't absolute requirements then? :P
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not when i can get a baritone scale \m/
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i was like you 18 months ago but grumbled at the 2k+ for a proper gibbo, especially as i didn't know much about them
and didn't really have nearby music stores to try any.
pulled the trigger on a tokai and more recently another, both of which are 50's spec'd (as the reissue gibbo's) and
including bkp's for one i'm still at the price of a gibbo lp standard! i found it a simple decision, no regrets, both great
guitars.
whichever route you take find out 'whats under the bonnet' as it were, materials and construction differ somewhat.
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I've said it before will say it again..Tokai, Burny, Edwards, Orville Japan guitars will cover what you want
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I've always wanted one. Which ones should i look after? I want one made of a solid piece, no chambering. Ebony board.
I would really like a custom or a traditional. Any1 of you who knows which generations i should look after?
Here you go my friend, http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/50210-gibson-les-paul-101-a.html
I am attaching text from the link above, for those that don't want to venture to another site, or don't' want to do read too much about it. There are some interesting images though.
-from the LINK ABOVE
"Rather than keep sending people to Gibson Forums, I figured I'd post this here. Maybe with some luck, this will become a sticky.
This post mainly applies to newer Les Pauls. Nowadays, there are two types of Les Pauls - Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop.
Gibson USA
Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction. Weight-relief is also known as "swiss cheese holes" and refers to the nine holes drilled out of the body in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Chambering officially began for 2007 but the late 2006s are also chambered. Any Les Paul made after October 2006 maybe or likely is chambered. Every 2007 and newer Gibson USA Les Paul is chambered, except for the Les Paul Traditional. The Les Paul Traditional has swiss cheese holes. Chambering is essentially hollowing out the body. Again, this is in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Gibson Custom Shop
Gibson's Custom Shop makes regular production guitars and historic reissues. The regular production guitars, such as the Les Paul Custom, are also weight-relieved. They do not have solid-bodies.
The historic reissues are solid. All historic reissues, be it Standards or Customs, are solid. The exception being the chambered reissues. Chambered reissues are often referred to as Cloud 9 guitars. They are identified by their serial number, which begins with CR. chambered-reissue.org
So,
A 2003 Les Paul Classic is weight-relieved
A 2008 '57 reissue is solid
A 1995 Les Paul Standard is weight-relieved
A 2009 Chambered '58 reissue is chambered
A 2008 Les Paul Studio is chambered
A 1987 Les Paul Custom is weight-relieved
etc.
Neck tenons
Some Les Pauls have long neck tenon, while others do not.
Short: Standards (before the 2008 "new" Standard), Customs, Studios Classics.
Long: Historic reissues, 2008 Standards.
Norlin
Gibson guitars made between 1968 - 1986. Great info right here. FAQ: Norlin History
Any Norlin related items/questions should be posted here. Norlin Years - My Les Paul Forums
Historic Reissues
R2 = reissue of the 1952 Gibson Les Paul
R9 = reissue of the 1959 Gibson Les Paul
CR8 = chambered reissue of the '58 Gibson Les Paul
There is no R3 or R5.
Historic Customs are often referred to as B4, B7, R4BB or R7BB. BB meaning Black Beauty.
Gibson's VOS - Vintage Original Spec line. The terms VOS, historic, reissue & historic reissue all refer to the same guitar. There is only one difference, VOS refers to the aged finish on the top and hardware. The ones that do not have the VOS finish are referred to as "gloss" or "high gloss" reissues because (obviously) they have a high gloss finish. Websites like Guitar Center list the two guitars as VOS and "reissue." Reissue refers to the high gloss. I think this has caused some confusion with some people but rest assured, they are all the same guitar. Again, one looks brand new and the other does not look brand new - that's the only difference. VOS costs $300 less.
Any historic Les Pauls related items/questions should be posted here. Historics & Reissues - My Les Paul Forums
Historic Customs
Standards have mahogany bodies and maple tops. Historic Customs have mahogany bodies and mahogany tops (while modern/regular Customs have maple tops). The Custom will likely weight around a pound heavier but that's about it for differences.
1968 Reissue
Another reissue that never seems to be on gibson.com is the '68RI. These are the same as the B7s, only difference is they have maple tops, different pickups and Gibson USA electronics.
R8 vs. R9
This question gets asked a lot !!
They are the same guitar. All reissues are essentially the same guitar with minor differences. These differences are neck thicknesses, pickups, weight of each individual guitar, finishes & tops. The best way to get an understanding of the neck sizes is to actually play them. Me explaining that R8s have thicker necks than R9s and R7s have thicker necks than R8s doesn't mean jack unless you sit down with the guitar and see for yourself.
R9s list for $1,500 - $2,000 more than R8s. Why? The answer is because R9s have flame maple tops and the R9 should weigh less than the R8. That's it. Please feel free to correct any mistakes I have made and also add any info you want but let's try and keep this thread educational."-from the LINK ABOVE
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I've always wanted one. Which ones should i look after? I want one made of a solid piece, no chambering. Ebony board.
I would really like a custom or a traditional. Any1 of you who knows which generations i should look after?
Also from the above quote, I get what you are saying. I once felt the same way until recently. Where I live Les Pauls are abundant, and fortunately I grew up with one always around or near which I have gotten to experience quite a selection.
I too, use to be after a completely solid body, and before I read much about it, I didn't even know that most of the one's I played on were weight relieved. You can always tell if one is chambered when you pick it up, but the weight relieved ones, you'd be surprised.
I was in a vintage shop in the are I live, the best music store here. My amp was getting a checkup there, and I was waiting for it to be finished. I was checking out all kinds of Les Pauls; vintage Customs, from 74' and up, Standards, Traditionals, you name it. I picked up one that was a studio, it weighed a ton. I started to play it unplugged. I could feel my eyes popping out of the sockets because the sound was simply amazing to me. I wasn't even looking for a guitar, and when I played this one dry, I had to have it. I then tested my amp with it, when they were finishing repairing it. That was it. A week later, I had manage to get funds some how, and I went back there and claimed that fine instrument.
As stated above, I have played all kinds of Les Pauls through out my life. But honestly, it is always hit or miss. Sad really, although Gibson use to be my favorite guitar company, I have to say, I've been rather disappointed with what they have been putting out for awhile. In my opinion, you are paying for the name, and not the instrument. I have seen all kinds of stuff that would make one wonder what is going on with that at the factor. Everything to twisted necks, wavy finishes, and nuts that weren't even slotted, and they sell them for full price this way. I have been seeing this with allot of manufacturers and a lot of guitars I have tried, the just didn't have any feel to them. I think that ESP, the Japanese made guitars, are pretty good quality, just not really into their shapes. I have been looking at smaller builders recently. So far, Ran Guitars, and Feline Guitars have really caught my interest.
That being as it is, the best way to pick one out is to go and try it. Play as many as you can. You will know when you've got a good one, even if it isn't set up properly. Doesn't matter if its chambered, weight relief, or solid. I didn't know mine was weight relieved, and it is freaking heavy. But I can tell you this, and with all honesty; The Studio that I have, plays better than most Customs and Standards that I have ever played. Its hard to believe, but that is what it is. Whenever and however it was built, it was done right.
For your info, its a 1991 Les Paul studio, with an Ebony fretboard and Trap inlays. There is a set of Nailbombs (Ceramic Bridge) on its way from BKP for it, replacing the Duncan Custom/Alnico Pro II that is in it currently. I have gone through several guitars, and every since I've gotten this one, its been hard to settle on another.
I have been searching for a back up. Been buying and selling them in the pursuit of. But, always they get compared to my Les Paul. If it doesn't have that quality, it doesn't stay around for very long. I play extreme metal with it. Though it doesn't look so metal, it is the heaviest sounding guitars I have ever had. I love it very much. I feel like it is a part of me.
I have played other studios, close to the same year, and they aren't quite like mine. If you are looking for an good LP with an ebony fretboard, I would recommend looking for the years 89-95. There seems to be a handful of them with ebony during that time. You will usually see them in wine red, white, and black finishes. All my friends whom are techs and luthiers, always tell me that I lucked out with it, and if I ever wanted to sell it, contact them first. That won't happen.
Good luck, and I hope that any of this info is useful to you. If you have any specific questions, ask away.
One last thing. I recommend trying it not hooked up to an amp. Thats how I pick them. If its sound awesome without an amp, it is only going to sound more divine when you amplify it.
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I played a Vintage-brand Les Paul GT with P90s last week and it was a crackin guitar - fat neck and great sounding P90s, would happily have one to gig with. Massive bang for the buck.
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Also, most things made in Japan are really good.
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I have three Gibson Les Pauls I cherish.
But I've been buying Edwards and Tokai recently.
The Tokais especially come very close.
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I have three Gibson Les Pauls I cherish.
But I've been buying Edwards and Tokai recently.
The Tokais especially come very close.
Aren't the Tokai built in Korea now?
And how are those Edwards Les Paul? I have been really curious. I knew about them awhile back. Since then the prices have gone up significantly.
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Tokais are built in Japan, Korea or China, depending on the price bracket.
Edwards are part built in China, then assembled and finished in Japan.
I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer. But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware.
They used to be great bargains, but as you say the prices have gone up (although they don't have good resale value at the moment :( )
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I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer. But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware.
I've always consider the guitar, itself, the platform or foundation of the sound. Hardware and pickups can always be changed.
They used to be great bargains, but as you say the prices have gone up (although they don't have good resale value at the moment :( )
Thats really good to know. I looked up some used one after you state this. Funny, though, for resale they are going for slightly less than they used be priced at new.
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I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer. But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware.
I've always consider the guitar, itself, the platform or foundation of the sound. Hardware and pickups can always be changed.
I agree, but it depends how much your budget extends to include both the guitar and "upgrades". :)
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it's not often you see the upper end (ls 150 and up) on the second hand market.they're not common though so it's not surprising either.above ls 150 you start paying for fancy tops etc so on these models the 'value' is less apparent (to the cheapskate).
the ls 150 is the best value in my view (of current'ish'models) as it the first guitar in the series built like a 50's lp.(like the gibbo reissues).
i don't like the paf 2 pups but factoring in a new set of bkp's will give a bill of around £1400 for this guitar. this for
comparison would need to be compared to an reissue gibson price. this is my logic anyway.the guitar is its ingredients not its name.
from time to time the sharp eyed can find new ones at less than the above price :lol:
older tokai's pre 2000 and specifically the 80's are another subject but its interesting to follow the differences in construction for both makes because what you see is not what you get, so to speak.
interesting posts doom buggi regarding the gibson spec data.
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it's not often you see the upper end (ls 150 and up) on the second hand market.they're not common though so it's not surprising either.above ls 150 you start paying for fancy tops etc so on these models the 'value' is less apparent (to the cheapskate).
I don't think it's necessarily people being cheapskates, more that most people aren't aware of the differences between the different Tokai models. The model numbers are confusing - and hard to remember - and (visually, at least) it's hard to tell much difference between one MIJ Tokai and another. So I reckon one of the reasons people don't sell high-end Tokais is that they know they'll never get their money back!
I have an SG-155 (or SG-175 now, unless it's changed again). There's nothing on the guitar to say the model name (except a tag in the case, which most people wouldn't have). In a photo it looks exactly like an SG-75, and frankly it plays almost exactly like an SG-75. OK, it's got a one-piece body and a nitro finish, but the average punter looking for bargains on eBay doesn't know that. I couldn't sell it without making a HUGE loss!
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by 'cheapskates' i mean me :lol:, but the point i was making (badly) is that the discerning guitar seeker wont find better
tone by having figured tops but this does add considerable $'s.
by the way check out the bridge pup cavity (or neck) for your model number,(ULS......) if you ever sell it will mean a lot
to the buyer and at least you can justify your claims to its superiority even if not 'visible'.
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by the way check out the bridge pup cavity (or neck) for your model number,(ULS......) if you ever sell it will mean a lot
to the buyer and at least you can justify your claims to its superiority even if not 'visible'.
Thanks for the tip - I can't remember seeing a model number, but I wasn't specifically looking, so it could be there! :)
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interesting posts doom buggi regarding the gibson spec data.
I spend a lot of time researching things I'm into. That is why I'm on this forum now. Though it is my first to be on any forum. I found knowledgeable people posting here more frequently than most other sites I've been to. I want to understand to how to get the best tone for myself as well as help other's find their own. Either way, I get to learn more.
Besides that, I wanted to save some else the time and agony you have to go through to find a shred of factual information. Forums can be exhausting, especially when there is some one who thinks they know something. I can say, I only know what I have experienced, not what I pretend to experience.
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If you want long tenon,solid.Look at Historic's.Norlin era are solid(some are pancake,mahogony with a thin layer of maple in the middle) and trans tenon.The Kalamazoo made Les pauls have mahogony necks,ABR bridge and are lighter.My 71 is 9.5 lb.Those from Nashville are maple necked.I think 1980 onwards are back to hog necks and have no holes.
Customs have ebony boards,so do late 70's Les Paul Pro's.
My 71 and VOS 57 Custom.I like pics . :D
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii98/marantz1300/Gibson/SAM_0224.jpg)
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How about one of the Epiphone Les Paul Prophecy range?
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Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction.
Anybody out here who could confirm this piece of information? I have a '95 and '05 Standard, which definitely do not feel weight relieved! What's more, on passing through Heathrow recently the '05 had to go through the X-ray, and I don't recall seeing any evidence of weight relief then.
If anyone can say whether this proposed deception by Gibson is correct, please do!
If I'm not right, I'm wrong.
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yes, they are probably weight relieved, unless they're some sort of custom shop model
the weight relief is just 9 "bullet holes" in the mahogany right below the maple top
it's not really something that would take out a big chunk of wood or even much weight
it is not the same type of weight relief used in the chambered ones or some weight relief methods used in 70's/80's japanese, korean and brazilian copies
one of the best sounding les pauls I ever played was a 2005 les paul standard faded and that was definitely a "nine holer"
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Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction.
Anybody out here who could confirm this piece of information? I have a '95 and '05 Standard, which definitely do not feel weight relieved! What's more, on passing through Heathrow recently the '05 had to go through the X-ray, and I don't recall seeing any evidence of weight relief then.
If anyone can say whether this proposed deception by Gibson is correct, please do!
If I'm not right, I'm wrong.
The research that I have conducted seems consistent. The only sure way to know is to contact Gibson directly and ask them about the history. I know they are selling the newer les pauls (some models) in the advertisement that specifically list it as chambered.
Every thread I have read is consistent to the to the text of the link that I have posted. The question really is, does it matter? If a guitar sounds good, it is good. I you like it, then that is all that matters. I love my 91 Les Paul, its heavy as hell, even if it is weight relieved. Still, it sound better than most Les Pauls that I have played on
Gibson Link;
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/Chambering%20the%20Les%20Paul_%20A%20Mar/ (http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/GearAndInstruments/Chambering%20the%20Les%20Paul_%20A%20Mar/)
weight relieved
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/LPCollector/swisscheese.jpg)
weight relieved
(http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/uploads/monthly_05_2010/post-1189-1273088219.jpg)
Cloud 9 (59 reissue) chambering (left), les paul with a p-90 in the neck (right)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/LPCollector/Cloud9chambering.jpg)
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(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/XKolera/Guitar/23082011266.jpg)
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Is it possible they have a "target weight" for a body and they don't weight-relieve any which are already below that target?
I know that's highly unlikely, as it would involve an extra process of weighing each body - it's probably much easier to just swiss-cheese them all.
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(http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/XKolera/Guitar/23082011266.jpg)
I think i know that shop ^^
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pretty interesting.
I've never been concerned with weight until recently, since I've stopped being a band regularly I've not played as much. A 4 hour practice with my les paul custom after 2.5hrs doing weights and cardio at the gym was a bit much. Also, the shoulder my strap goes over is much bigger than my other shoulder! I bet in future ill end up with some gibson induced hunchback.
I actually quite like a heavier guitar though.
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I
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pretty interesting.
I've never been concerned with weight until recently, since I've stopped being a band regularly I've not played as much. A 4 hour practice with my les paul custom after 2.5hrs doing weights and cardio at the gym was a bit much. Also, the shoulder my strap goes over is much bigger than my other shoulder! I bet in future ill end up with some gibson induced hunchback.
I actually quite like a heavier guitar though.
I myself was always very thankful for my SG for that reason - just a lot easier on the back.
The typical customer for the higher-priced LesPauls is probably not the fit 18-year old, but rather the 30+ dad. Weight relief is a good idea I guess from Gibson's view point.
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With all that chambering, it's amazing they're still as bloody heavy as they are!
How come PRS can still make Singlecuts around the 8 to 8.5 pound mark?
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With all that chambering, it's amazing they're still as bloody heavy as they are!
How come PRS can still make Singlecuts around the 8 to 8.5 pound mark?
The Chambered ones are super light. The weight relief ones are still pretty heavy. My 91' Les Paul weighs exactly 9 lbs, 15 ounces (4.08 kg, 425.24 grams), and its weight relieved. I have played some long sessions standing and it doesn't ever kill my back (I'm 32 y/o).
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If you can convince yourself to deviate a bit from the Les Paul design, ESP's are a great alternative at less than half of the price. I have had several and have never been disappointed. All of the hardware is top of the line and they sound great. It's true that most of their lineup is geared towards the metal enthusiast, but they have several models that lean on the vintage side. I play mostly classic rock and blues on mine but you can really go anywhere with it. I prefer the EC-1000 series to the Eclipse. I have played both and the quality/difference is very minimal. the EC-1000's are much cheaper. I got my last EC-1000 from zzounds.com on sale for $599 which is an absolutely ridiculous price for that guitar. They come fitted with a JB/SH-59 set which I was never fond of but have managed to get on with in this guitar. Check it out.
http://www.espguitars.com/guitars/ltd-standard-deluxe/ec-series.html
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http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/2795213583.html
Been eyeing this one for some time. Right around the corner from my house.
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If you can convince yourself to deviate a bit from the Les Paul design, ESP's are a great alternative at less than half of the price. I have had several and have never been disappointed. All of the hardware is top of the line and they sound great. It's true that most of their lineup is geared towards the metal enthusiast, but they have several models that lean on the vintage side. I play mostly classic rock and blues on mine but you can really go anywhere with it. I prefer the EC-1000 series to the Eclipse. I have played both and the quality/difference is very minimal. the EC-1000's are much cheaper. I got my last EC-1000 from zzounds.com on sale for $599 which is an absolutely ridiculous price for that guitar. They come fitted with a JB/SH-59 set which I was never fond of but have managed to get on with in this guitar. Check it out.
http://www.espguitars.com/guitars/ltd-standard-deluxe/ec-series.html
I've asked this before of other members, but since you've posted I may as well get another opinion:
How do you find the neck shape on the EC-1000? I prefer a chunky neck, so "Thin U" doesn't sound promising to me....
Apart from that one thing, they look like very attractive LP alternatives.
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Aren't the Tokai built in Korea now?
Mine say Made In Japan on the headstock. But I know there are different series.
And how are those Edwards Les Paul? I have been really curious. I knew about them awhile back. Since then the prices have gone up significantly.
They are labeled Made In Japan as well. They're good guitars, but they are a tiny bit smaller than Gibsons. Which is a bit weird. But they're excellent guitars and good value for money.
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i've had 1 ESP and 3 ltd's through the years.
All of them had their own problems. Horrible workmanship imho. What you get for the money is alot of expensive hardware, but minimal workmanship/quality control.
I will never buy a esp again.
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i've had 1 ESP and 3 ltd's through the years.
All of them had their own problems. Horrible workmanship imho. What you get for the money is alot of expensive hardware, but minimal workmanship/quality control.
I will never buy a esp again.
Reading your response and Kellar's, I've seen this a lot when ESP is discussed - they really do seem to divide opinion!
I've never owned an ESP or LTD, but I have had a lot of Edwards guitars - which on the whole I've been pretty happy with. My impression is that the Edwards guitars stay pretty close to the Gibsons they're modelled on, but ESPs are probably ultimately a bit too "modern" for my taste.
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I've never owned an ESP or an LTD but what I've seen from them has been pretty good.
The two Edwardses I own are both excellent. No production flaws I've noticed so far.
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i've had 1 ESP and 3 ltd's through the years.
All of them had their own problems. Horrible workmanship imho. What you get for the money is alot of expensive hardware, but minimal workmanship/quality control.
I will never buy a esp again.
Sorry, I cannot agree with the comment. My ESP's construction is immaculate. The binding, paintjob fretjob and everything else is perfect. All cavities - including the pickup ones - are painted with that special paint and grounded. I've had the guitar for 6 years now and it is holding up great.
My LTD's neck has rounded fretboard edges. Rounded! On an LTD! The feel is awesome, like a well plaid in guitar. Yes, the inlays aren't perfect like on the ESP.
Both my Gibsons on the other hand are fine guitars as well, but you see the little things. Like you can feel where the fretboard has been glued one, or the binding is a bit rough here and there.
My guess is that you have been sold some Lemons. Every manufacturer has them. You were probably just unlucky.
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So what do we know of the actual construction of Burnys, Edwards and the like? Are they all solid mahogany bodies or similarly weight relieved? If they are solid, where are they getting they're mahogany from that Gibson can't!-or they can, and is simply Gibson's method of extacting more money for a custom shop model that is solid?
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Edwards, Tokai, Orville and Japanese Epiphones are, as far as I know, all solid bodied. In my experience Edwards tend to be quite light, Tokai a bit heavier.
I suspect it's not that they have access to "better" mahogany, more that they use different woods from different sources and different branches ( :roll: ) of the mahogany "family".
Going back further to the late '70s and '80s, I know some of the Greco models were chambered/weight relieved - although they still tend to be pretty heavy. The same is probably true of Burny, but I don't know for sure (can't be bothered to research it again now! :lol: )
The new Chinese Burnys are probably solid, but I'd guess they're made of nato or something along those lines.
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Speaking from personal experience, my two Tokais are indeed on the heavy side.
The Edwards LP 125 I have is quite light, but also smaller than a regular Les Paul. A bit thinner, a bit shorter... It's weird.
The Tokais are deadringers for my Gibsons except for the poly finish and frets that run to the edge of the neck rather than the binding.
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Man I have to say I disagree as well. I have had several ESP's, all very well built. Have not had a single issue with any of them.Any ESP I have ever played has been built very well. I find their worksmanship top-notch and would certainly give constructive criticism if I had any to give.
Regarding the neck, its definitely thinner and plays very fast. I had no trouble getting used to it though. Matter of taste I guess.
The hardware is second to none and better than the hardware you get on some guitars twice the price. Locking tuners, locking TOM bridge and tailpiece, Earvana nut, SH-59/JB pickups.