Tone Pot Wiring - which way is the best?

[Philly Q]

Cheers Dave!  :D  I'll stop worrying and get soldering.

I just noticed on the RS Guitarworks site that they have a pre-wired kit called the Hillbilly Channel Switchin' Kit, based on Greg Martin's '58 Les Paul.  

They're a but cryptic about it, but it looks to me like he mistakenly connected the caps on his LP to the outer lugs on the volume controls, effectively converting it to "modern" wiring.

[Twinfan]

Looks like plain old modern wiring to me :roll:

[Philly Q]

Looks like plain old modern wiring to me :roll:

You're not saying it's a case of the Emperor's New (Hillbilly) Clothes, are you?  

[Twinfan]

Surely not........   :P

[HTH AMPS]

Cheers Dave!  :D  I'll stop worrying and get soldering.

I just noticed on the RS Guitarworks site that they have a pre-wired kit called the Hillbilly Channel Switchin' Kit, based on Greg Martin's '58 Les Paul.  

They're a but cryptic about it, but it looks to me like he mistakenly connected the caps on his LP to the outer lugs on the volume controls, effectively converting it to "modern" wiring.

No shite they're cryptic, their treble tamer kit is the funniest - 300k pots rather than 500k ones.  If you have a bright Gibson with 300k pots already, it's not gonna change anything.

I'm really curious as to what the wiring mistake was though on that Hillbilly kit.  I've been wanting to try some of their super-taper pots for a while so I'm gonna order the Hillbilly set to find out  :D

[Philly Q]

I'm really curious as to what the wiring mistake was though on that Hillbilly kit.  I've been wanting to try some of their super-taper pots for a while so I'm gonna order the Hillbilly set to find out  :D

I don't think the Hillbilly kit actually has the super-duper-gary-cooper short-shaft super-taper superpots (I know you might want the long shaft set, but I wanted to write "short-shaft super-taper superpots").  

It just says "4 CTS Audio Taper Pots".  On all the other kit write-ups they spend ages rhapsodising about the superpots.

I'm pretty sure it's just a "modernised" version of their vintage kits, with the cap connected differently to the volume control.

[BadMonkey]

Did you ever get round to installing the Vintage Wiring Philly Q?
I was thinking of installing a treble bleed cap in my SG, but if the vintage wiring retains treble better when you lower volume it looks the easier solution.
Cheers!
BM

[Philly Q]

Did you ever get round to installing the Vintage Wiring Philly Q?

I've only been working on one guitar since this thread started, my LP Jr - and I've actually wired it like the RS Guitarworks "Hillbilly Channel Switchin' Kit" referred to above.  That way, I can try out the "vintage" wiring just by shifting one end of the cap.

As usual, though, I haven't got round to putting the guitar back together yet.  :roll:

I suspect I'll stick with the modern/hillbilly wiring for the Junior, though - since it only has one pickup I don't want it too bright (if that's indeed what the vintage wiring does).

I've tried treble bleed caps a couple of times, but I'm not keen - I quite like the way the tone softens when you lower the volume with conventional wiring.  It might be good on, say, a Tele with hot pickups so you could drop the volume and simulate a more vintage tone.

[JustBecos]

Hello

I'm a bit new around, hope you don't mind me adding my question here as it seems connected to this thread. I'm a bit of newbie to guitar electric so feel free to laugh at me if my question(s) are stupid.

I have a PRS tremonti SE which I brough second hand as a doer upper.  It mainly standard lp wiring. My first change I'm doing to the guitar is rewiring and replacing the pots as the pots are all scratchy and are acknowledged to be  a weak point of the guitar. I 'm saving my pennies for new pups (prob black dogs)

The trouble I have is all the wiring diagrams I have found show the caps in series in the wire from volume to tone pot, but this guitar has them  soldered from the right lug on the tone pot earthed to the pot cover (I think someone called this a tone killer earlier in the thread).

Is there any reason why it would be wired this way, or any reason why I shouldn't change it over to either modern or vintage style and would I have to replace the cap or could use the ones all ready in there (I will be replacing the caps any way when I get the new pups, this is just playing while I save).

And if anyone can give me advise on weather  modern or vintage would be better for this guitar that would be appeciated

[Twinfan]

Greetings  :)

I think the caps are probably wired the way you describe for ease of assembly?  It's a common way of wiring far eastern guitars at the factory, such as the korean and japanese models.

There's no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't change it.  If the caps have long enough legs to wire them the traditional way then you can certainly re-use them.

As for vintage vs modern, it's purely a matter of personal preference.  As the difference is only one wire swap you'll need to try both and see which you prefer  :)

[Philly Q]

The trouble I have is all the wiring diagrams I have found show the caps in series in the wire from volume to tone pot, but this guitar has them  soldered from the right lug on the tone pot earthed to the pot cover (I think someone called this a tone killer earlier in the thread).

I think the "tone sucking" aspect of the "reverse" wiring scheme referred to above wasn't the way the cap is wired, but the fact that the selector switch is connected to the tone control rather than the volume control.  

As Twinfan has said, it's very common to see the cap grounded on the back of the tone control as you described, but personally I like to use the cap as the "link" between the volume and tone controls, just because it's one less wire to solder.    There's no reason at all why you shouldn't rewire the guitar differently using the existing controls, but I don't know how much noticeable difference it'll make.

I find the RS Guitarworks website quite helpful - I haven't actually bought any of their pre-wired kits, but they have big clear photos which are good examples of nice clean wiring.

Here's their "modern" kit:
http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?cPath=47_62&products_id=178

And here's their "vintage" one:
http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?cPath=47_61&products_id=392

[Ted]

I always liked this diagram and you could always swap around lugs to change to modern / vintage...



Also like this site for wiring info:

http://dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/

[Frank]

Bumping an old thread because curiosity got the better of me and I wired up a quick tone pot test harness. I honestly did not want to believe there was a difference but yes, there is a subtle difference and the vintage style sounds more open and the high frequencies are preserved a lot better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4d681HVsw8&feature=youtu.be

[BigB]

Bumping an old thread because curiosity got the better of me and I wired up a quick tone pot test harness. I honestly did not want to believe there was a difference

The difference in tone shaping, resonance frequency and general behaviour between both circuits is a proven, scientific, demonstrated fact - even if with both pots cranked up the difference may or not be noticeable depending on all the variable (pup's capacitance, inductance and output impedance, pots and cap values, cable capacitance, amp's input impedance and whatnots). No black magic nor snake oil here.

[Frank]

Just because something's a proven scientific fact doesn't mean I'm going to believe it until I try it :)

Even the wikipedia page for RLC networks has a disclaimer about disputed scientific accuracy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit#Parallel_RLC_circuit

So really the answer is experiment with both methods and see what suits you. I'm replacing a strat switch tomorrowand I'm probably going to make sure the pots are moved over to vintage style.