Username: Password:

Author Topic: Rant No. 1  (Read 12960 times)

dave_mc

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2008, 07:04:42 PM »
i wouldn't really have a problem with relics if there were the option to get an unreliced version of the same guitar (for cheaper of course). just it's quite annoying when the guitar looks perfect, except for the relicing. :lol:

Johnny Mac

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5841
    • Ultimate Guitar Profile
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2008, 08:05:22 PM »
I'm with Dave and Kilby, if you can have the same guitar without looking like its been in a dogs kennel out in the back yard for 3 years for the same price then I'll take the latter. I've been looking at those Vintage Lemon drops too as they're great for the money. So are those Washburn Wi thingys  that machinehead are flogging too but they too have silly relic jobs on them. Which is a shame as we're left without a choice when clearly most real guitar players wouldn't want a relic. So who wants them? Posers imo.

Before all these relics hit the market I think it was around 1988, I was looking at an old early 60's Strat in Denmark St that been gigged to hell and back and I thought it looked cool, but they were all dings and wear from gigs and hard practice ect not false. So I can sort of see the appeal from a sales point of view. As some rich bloke can hang one on his wall and make up a load of bollocks about its history to those ignorant of guitars as thats all i can think of that they are good for. They give a false impression of a working history. The perfect prop for the bullshiteeeeee artist!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 08:07:05 PM by Johnny Mac »
Warpig, MQ,
Miracle Man-Trilogy Suite, Cold Sweats, Black Guards, Rebel Yells & Irish Tours!

dave_mc

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2008, 09:00:07 PM »
those washburn idols are relics? any of the ones i've tried haven't been- but now that i think of it, i think they've released a newer idol which is a relic- but i don't think the ones machinehead are flogging are relics... i could be wrong, though. :)

Johnny Mac

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5841
    • Ultimate Guitar Profile
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2008, 09:39:42 PM »
those washburn idols are relics? any of the ones i've tried haven't been- but now that i think of it, i think they've released a newer idol which is a relic- but i don't think the ones machinehead are flogging are relics... i could be wrong, though. :)

There was a off white one that was a few weeks back.
Warpig, MQ,
Miracle Man-Trilogy Suite, Cold Sweats, Black Guards, Rebel Yells & Irish Tours!

kevincurtis

  • Featherweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
    • CD Baby Page
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2008, 08:48:48 AM »
clearly most real guitar players wouldn't want a relic. So who wants them? Posers imo.


EVH looked quite pleased with the Frankenstrat which is an ultimate relicing job...

This is simple business - how many Fender Standard Strats can you sell? So let's create something else that people with pristine guitars might still buy. Personally I don't come under the heading of a poser, I do like my relic'd Edwards and I like my self relic'd Tokai,  and play whichever one gives me what I need for the track, what it looks like is neither here nor there.

Philly Q

  • Light Heavyweight
  • ******
  • Posts: 18109
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2008, 09:17:57 AM »
I generally find how wound up people can manage to get over relic's laughable.

It's just a finish same as any other, hell, the whole "falseness" nonsens just doesn't wash with me, if someone wants a relic'd effect on a guitar I really don't see it as any different to someone wanting a quilted top.

Took me a long time to mention it, but I wholeheartedly agree with that comment.

I noticed that on the "Indy's Ultimate guitar" thread no-one slagged off the relic finishes on those Fano guitars.  They look fantastic, and IMO wouldn't look anywhere near as good with shiny pristine finishes.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2008, 10:13:13 AM »
I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...

Not got any decent answers yet though...
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

Kilby

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2363
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2008, 10:36:47 AM »
I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...

Not got any decent answers yet though...

Thought I answered twice and Johnny answered as well,

Scuffed and emulated dings are OK to me

Totally and artifically fecked are NOT.

The Fanos fell into the former
Goodbye London !

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2008, 11:10:50 AM »
I noticed that as well (no slagging of relic'ing on Fano) - it actually had me wondering why we all seem to like/accept some relic'ing and not others...

Not got any decent answers yet though...

Thought I answered twice and Johnny answered as well,

Scuffed and emulated dings are OK to me

Totally and artifically fecked are NOT.

The Fanos fell into the former

Sorry, you did indeed. I was musing on a more philosophical level and I meant that I hadn't come up with any "deep truths" yet!! (and I don't think I'm going to :D)

I pretty much agree with you and Johnny - but what those Fanos started me wondering was where is that magical dividing line that makes some relic'ing seem "artificial" and some not? :roll: It seems the majority of us (on here) would probably make the same sort of judgement on a particular guitar's state of "degeneration" if it was put in front of us... but why? Why do we accept some fakes and not others?

I'm still not sure I've made myself clear there :lol:
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

Kilby

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2363
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2008, 11:48:04 AM »
Sorry, you did indeed. I was musing on a more philosophical level and I meant that I hadn't come up with any "deep truths" yet!! (and I don't think I'm going to :D)

I pretty much agree with you and Johnny - but what those Fanos started me wondering was where is that magical dividing line that makes some relic'ing seem "artificial" and some not? :roll: It seems the majority of us (on here) would probably make the same sort of judgement on a particular guitar's state of "degeneration" if it was put in front of us... but why? Why do we accept some fakes and not others?

I'm still not sure I've made myself clear there :lol:

You are hopeful if you want any universal truths (even the truth "pain isn't fun" dosn't even apply to everybody  :?)

Where does OK meet dislike, where it is simply overdone (think permatanned TV personalities that look like Oompa Lompas (spelling))

If I was a gigging musician and had an original 63 strat, I wouldn't be using it outside of the house (or studio), I would have something similar fro the live work. Being a sad individual, if I had a good copy made and it was mint, I would keep that in the house too as I hate marks on anything that I own (therefore requiring yet another guitar, repeat ad infinitum). Whereas if it was a bit aged I would personally not be nearly so precious about it and another scuff or ding would simply add to it's character.

Played to death guitars are fine (hello Mr Gallagher) and even copies of them are sort of OK for those who are real fans (though personally I woudn't bother).

I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.

Yeah by all means companys can offer heavily marked guitars, but please offer the same guitar in a mint condition too.
Goodbye London !

Philly Q

  • Light Heavyweight
  • ******
  • Posts: 18109
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2008, 12:03:36 PM »
I believe a Mr K Richards was responsible for this stuff, and I can understand his reasoning. People expect him to be playing one of his original teles on stage (and on TV) rather than one straight from the Fender factory (looking all shiney and new.) But again thats all image and I have to be honest and say that Keef with a brand new looking guitar would be upsetting to me.

There's that oft-repeated story (or myth?) that when Keith buys a new guitar he hands it to a roadie and says "play that for a couple of years and then bring it back".

Going back to Rory Gallagher's Strat, what's always amazed me is how wonderfully knackered that guitar got in a short space of time.  It's 47 years old now, but it looks very nearly as battered on the covers of Irish Tour or Against The Grain, or even in the Taste days when it was nearly new!  He really must have had acid in his sweat!   :)

Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.

 
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

indysmith

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4713
    • Soundcloud
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2008, 12:55:12 PM »
Going back to Rory Gallagher's Strat, what's always amazed me is how wonderfully knackered that guitar got in a short space of time.  It's 47 years old now, but it looks very nearly as battered on the covers of Irish Tour or Against The Grain, or even in the Taste days when it was nearly new!  He really must have had acid in his sweat!   :)

Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.

 
I read somewhere that Rory had abnormally acidic sweat actually :P Yummy... Made one hell of a cool looking and distinctive guitar though!
I'd have to agree about the tribute Rory strats though - they look pretty Disneyland. The relic work on those guitars is worse than what you find on £100 Vintages; it looks like people have just stuck a few sunburst coloured stickers on a strat that's been stained a greyish brown.

EDIT: Did anyone else see the original Rory Strat at that Harrods exhibition? It was awesome!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 12:58:16 PM by indysmith »
LOVING the Mules!

Kilby

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2363
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2008, 01:01:46 PM »

Incidentally, I saw one of the RG Tribute Strats up close and I thought the ageing of the paintwork looked very fake indeed.

Which model as I think there where two releases, the expensive one and then the hidiously expensive master shop one.

Johnny:

I think Eddie looked happy cos everytime he looked at them he saw dollar bills flying at him.

Though that said it looked like a pretty accurate copy (cosmetically anyway)
Goodbye London !

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2008, 01:16:51 PM »
Same here on the RG strat - I was very disappointed when I saw one close up. The cracks in the scratch-plate were painted on, for example! And the finish, hmmm...

I've got a picture somewhere (b&w) of him with it when it had paint - I think it was a pic of the Fontana or Impact showband, (whichever was first?).

Philly, if you're thinking of the remastered CD cover for Irish Tour - that's a late 70's early 80's pic (REALLY annoyed me how his brother repackaged and generally mangled the entire cannon a few years...  :x - that's my "Rant No 1"!! and DO NOT GET ME STARTED on what he did to Jinx - can we have the original album back please, Mr DG, now that you've F'd it good and proper by mixing up out-of-time accoustic guitars that Rory obviously mixed down/out cos he didn't think they worked??? - stop fannying about!! very shoddy and upsetting work).

Deep breath...

But yeah, when I first saw him in 1980, the strat hadn't changed much in the previous 5 years - it suffered quite a bit more after that. I saw him in one gig where there was a load of gaffa tape holding the scratchplate on!! I understand that it got nicked and turned up under a hedgerow somewhere, and was never quite the same again.

I heard him say somewhere that, early on, his use of a harmonica rack caused a lot of the initial damage. And I heard too that he had acid sweat (I do, it rots strings something terrible).

But he did used to do a fair amount of kicking it around the stage as well, or banging it on the drum riser to make a point!! (That's one (a very minor one) of the reasons why I like strats, you can really mistreat them in a rock and roll frenzy (:roll:) and still get to finish the set with them, usually in tune... Try that with an SG and it's busted pretty quick. Try it with an LP and you'll do a lot of damage - possibly to yourself!!).

Up close, his looked like it had suffered some sort of fire damage to the finish (Jimi borrowed it one night mebbe?  :lol:). Another possibility that I've wondered in recent years is that perhaps the finish wasn't actually that good in the first place, so it fell off quite naturally? I suspect that the finish on my 62 re-issue, if I started gigging, would go pretty quickly, and when it does, it's going to come off in chunks like worn paint on a door-frame.

And Kilby, you're right about looking for truths!!
Funnily enough though, and I never realised this until I read your post, if I was still gigging, and if I had a real 62 or wotever, I would take it out and play it. I tend not to look at things in terms of "re-sell value" (possibly cos I never sell anything), so I wouldn't be worried about damaging that value - if it was cute, sounded cute, I'd want to play it in public. (What I wouldn't do is pay the asking price to get one in the first place!!  :lol:)
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Rant No. 1
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2008, 01:20:03 PM »

Did anyone else see the original Rory Strat at that Harrods exhibition? It was awesome!

Nope :(
But I have touched it three times - once on the headstock, once on the bare wood above the scratchplate, and once... "he let me strum it"!!! :D
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr