Didn't really like PRS's until.....

[nfe]

What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?

I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".

But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.

It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders  :lol:

[Twinfan]

I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".

That's just business!  :lol:  I'm all for giving people more choice  :)

[nfe]

I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".

That's just business!  :lol:  I'm all for giving people more choice  :)

I know, but I sit a bit to the left of Che Guevara in most matters  :lol:

[dave_mc]

Ha ha!  No I'm not!  We don't have to be respectiful, I was just expresssing my opinion on what I thought were harsh words from nfe.

yeah, i know. :)

[tomjackson]

What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?

I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".

But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.

It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders  :lol:

Of which guitars are you a fanboy crusader of?  Which Pious non-profit organisation makes your axes?

I hope you are not a fan of Gibson or Fender because your argument would be full of bird inlay size holes.....

And don't think I'm championing PRS, that's why I started the thread, I usually find them too flashy and refined.  But I think this guitar looks nice, that's all :D

[MrBump]

Nope, I just can't bring myself to like that guitar.

Bigsby!  Urgh!!!

The guitar that has me liking PRS is the Mira.

Mark.

[nfe]

What makes you so angry and richeous about a guitar design?

I'm just not keen on people making something that absolutely screams "I'm a greedy scoundrel and desperately want more money".

But really, this has all come from me basically thinking this is a hideous and daft looking guitar.

It would have stayed like that were it not for the PRS fanboy crusaders  :lol:

Of which guitars are you a fanboy crusader of? 

None.

Which Pious non-profit organisation makes your axes?

My two main guitars are Parker flys, but I'm the first to say they're not worth the money the average person pays for a new one. I got both of mine with more than a £1000 discount, and I sill think they were expensive

I hope you are not a fan of Gibson or Fender because your argument would be full of bird inlay size holes.....

Everything I say about PRS I would say about Gibson, only with extra bits about their laughable quality control. I like Fenders, I think they make workmanlike guitars for a sensible price. I have no interest in anything they make further up the scale than US standards. I did make mention earlier that when they did/do what PRS is currently doing, it's always a dismal failure. With good reason, so when they stick to making good guitars they made their name with, I think that's smashing.

[sambo]

but at least try to do it with some panache, why not try to make a completely new take on something? Why just whap a bigsby and scratchplate onto one of their current models?

Why not? Lots of people like PRSs, lots of people like Bigsbys, I'm sure quite a few people would like a PRS with a Bigsby.

If I was Mr Smith, I would like to hope I'd just think "You know, I'm extremely succesful, I make shedloads of money making these instruments I've made my name with, people love them. I think I'll just keep trying to make better and better versions of these." True to the original vision, if you like.

Staying true to the original vision and expanding their range aren't mutually exclusive.

I was surprised enough when they made the SE level models - likewise with Parker and their mid priced instruments - why bother? Why not just keep makking good quality stuff and try retain that niche brand identity.

You've answered your own question: money. And the fact that a lot of people want to own a PRS but cannot afford their expensive models.

[_tom_]

The SE guitars are nice as well imo :)

[dave_mc]

Why not? Lots of people like PRS's, lots of people like Bigsby's, I'm sure quite a few people would like a PRS with a Bigsby.

Staying true to the original vision and expanding their range aren't mutually exclusive.

agreed on both points. :)

You've answered your own question: money. And the fact that a lot of people want to own a PRS but cannot afford their expensive models.

also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).

No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...

:?

I mean, what chance do the rest of us have when half the customers are walking marketing department's dreams? :lol:

[Philly Q]

also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).

No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...

True, but to a (lesser) extent you also get the reverse snobbery situation of "my Tokai's better than any Gibson".  Which may be true (within reason), but is quite often said by people who - perhaps - haven't actually played all that many Gibsons.

Anyway, I can sympathise with both sides of the argument.  My Tokai SG is better than most of the Gibson SGs I've owned.  But I also quite like the fact that my Epis legitimately say "Les Paul" on the headstock. 

[dave_mc]

yeah, i agree about the inverse snobbery. i prefer to tell it like it is- based on what i've tried, cheapest MIJ tokais are almost as good as a (good example of a) gibson standard series (by that i mean non-custom shop) for a lot less money, but a bit lower in spec (several piece backs, poly finish etc.).

Edwards: similar in quality to a good example of standard series gibsons, without the full nitro finish... sometimes odd choice of pickups though (duncan JB in a LP? :? )

the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.

high end tokais- nicer than standard series gibsons for a similar price (if not less).

all of those destroy any (non-MIJ) epiphone i've tried... that was my problem, that the guy was willing to buy a (to be fair, subjectively and in my opinion) much worse guitar because of the headstock name. i don't mind someone paying more money for the headstock name if it's a really good guitar, but buying something worse... :?

:)

and you're cheating with your epis, they're the badass MIJ ones, aren't they? :lol: i nearly bought one of those myself except it fell through (seller accidentally misdescribed it and noticed before it was posted, gave me the offer of a refund, and as i wasn't sure what to do, i chickened out and took it).

[Lew]

also the fact that many people would prefer to have a mediocre guitar with PRS on the headstock than a good (or even great) guitar with a different name. Fender and Gibson thrive on the same kind of thinking which is prevalent in the guitar community (it's not just guitars either, most products have "aspirational" brands, which is a crock of you-know-what if you ask me).

No joke, I was in a shop once where a guy point-blank refused to even try a Tokai (it was a Japanese one, by the way) because it didnt' say "Les Paul" on the headstock. And would have been willing to buy the cheapest available Epiphone because it did...

True, but to a (lesser) extent you also get the reverse snobbery situation of "my Tokai's better than any Gibson".  Which may be true (within reason), but is quite often said by people who - perhaps - haven't actually played all that many Gibsons.

Anyway, I can sympathise with both sides of the argument.  My Tokai SG is better than most of the Gibson SGs I've owned.  But I also quite like the fact that my Epis legitimately say "Les Paul" on the headstock. 

This is the truth!

I'm always suspicious of brand bashers without having reasons or examples, it seems to be cool to bash big brands for the sake of it.
I don't get on with most Lespauls because the build is often dire- binding not meeting edges and shoddy fret work are the most common I see, regardless they ussually sound great plugged in and PRS because of the image they have for being Doctors guitars that get hung up on the wall and not played.

I saw the most perfect Tele earlier this afternoon btw, it's a deluxe thingy with S1 switching and had TONS of sex apeal/vibe, the wood had the sweetest grain and it was 1099!!!

Went a bit off topic there...  :lol:

[dave_mc]

i guess what i should say (and it would have saved a paragraph :lol: ) is that the  japanese copy is more often than not far better than the equivalently-priced fender or gibson.

:)

but yeah, sometimes it does go overboard and it's just mindless bashing rather than coolly-reasoned (is that a word?) analysis. also annoys me when the kids say that their £50 westfield is nicer than a custom-shop fender too...

[Lew]

but a bit lower in spec (several piece backs, poly finish etc.).

Edwards: similar in quality to a good example of standard series gibsons, without the full nitro finish... sometimes odd choice of pickups though (duncan JB in a LP? :? )

The general conseous from people is that nitro is somehow a better finish then Poly/Acrylics-it ages a certain way and feeds the image of quality because of the value of vintage guitars-that's what the kind of mindf**cking marketing the bigboy companies really tap into-look at the new PRS DGT-PRS improved their nitro by using plasticizers so it wont crack...  :lol:

It was actually only the very early Fenders that had all Nitro finishes, Leo soon learned that a poly basecoat worked better-but ofcourse most people will look at a vintage Fender and tell you it has a nitro finish and then go on to say that it's why it's so great because it 'lets the wood breath'... facepalm

I'm not having a dig at you Dave-just saw the those comments and they got me ranting lol!! ;-D