Didn't really like PRS's until.....

[dave_mc]

yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.

actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.

oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:

[Philly Q]

the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.

Totally agreed.  They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way.  I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special.  If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.

and you're cheating with your epis, they're the badass MIJ ones, aren't they? :lol:

 :lol: They are indeed!  Proper headstock, nitro finishes* and all.  :D

They're still cheap little guitars, but they sound great (mind you, I have a theory that's something to do with the full-width neck tenon on those singlecut LP Juniors).


(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew.  But I do like the way they feel and look.  :) )

[Lew]

yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.

actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.

oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:

Oh I get you for sure, you get people so ready to slag off Mexican Fenders just because they are made in Mexico and are therefore lower quality... and then go and rant on about how they dont make them like they used to in the good 'ole USA.... of-course completly ignorant to the fact that, that really expensive vintage Tele used on so many iconic recordings was... yep assembled by Mexicans  :lol:

Didn't mean to sound like an ass ;-)

[Lew]

(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew.  But I do like the way they feel and look.  :) )

Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele  ;-D

[nfe]

yeah. :) i didn't know that about the basecoat in vintage fenders actually, thanks for that.

actually, going back to the dude who wouldn't try the tokai- it's the fact he refused to even try it which got my goat... what harm does trying something do? everybody has different reasons and will have different things which are more important to them, which is fair enough, of course, and i always advise that everyone makes their own decision... but it's a lot harder to make a decision without having all the information... i just knew he was dismissing tokais as another cheap knock-off like westfield, which clearly they aren't.

oh well, his loss, and with any luck the fewer people who know about them makes it cheaper for those of us who do... :lol:

You know what's even more frustrating? When some you kid comes into a shop to buy his first guitar and his Dad's pal who knows everything there is to know about guitars (cause he has a Gibson, y'know!) takes over and doesn't let the poor kid actually try anything he likes, because he "needs to get an Epiphone as they're owned by Gibson, so they're the best, see!"

In the run up to Christmas in busy guitar shops, you've at least half a dozen of these a day. The other cracker is the wife who comes in to buy her husband a 335 for his 40th with his best mate, the guitar expert, in tow.

[dave_mc]

^ :lol:

Totally agreed.  They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way.  I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special.  If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.

yeah, rough-and-ready is about right. sometimes it's the good rough-and-ready (feels like a workhorse), sometimes it's the bad (terrible fretwork and finishing). definitely one of those "don't buy online" guitars. :D

and agreed about feel- the back of the body etc. feels cool with the thin finish, but if the fretwork's really bad then it feels bad to play. if that makes sense.

 :lol: They are indeed!  Proper headstock, nitro finishes* and all.  :D

They're still cheap little guitars, but they sound great (mind you, I have a theory that's something to do with the full-width neck tenon on those singlecut LP Juniors).

:D

i've never actually tried one, but heard good things and took a chance as the price stayed low (then it fell through, as i said, so i still haven't tried one :lol: ). much like the MIJ fenders, though, i almost consider them Japanese copies too, like tokai etc., as they're often made in the same factories as the copies... :)

Oh I get you for sure, you get people so ready to slag off Mexican Fenders just because they are made in Mexico and are therefore lower quality... and then go and rant on about how they dont make them like they used to in the good 'ole USA.... of-course completly ignorant to the fact that, that really expensive vintage Tele used on so many iconic recordings was... yep assembled by Mexicans  :lol:

Didn't mean to sound like an ass ;-)

you didn't sound like an ass, don't worry.  :)

i think the problem is that for most things you have bashers and fanboys, and it's best not to listen to either or they'll drive you mad. I admit I'm a fan of Japanese guitars, but it's solely because of the quality:price ratio... if that disappears, I'll stop liking them.

:)

[martinw]

the gibsons do feel a little more handmade than the lower end tokais and edwardses (i've heard you say this before too, and it's true), but the big problem with the gibsons (especially the cheaper ones with the worse QC) is that it can include some of the bad points of handmaking as well as the good- i've tried some cheaper gibbos and it literally felt like the frets just hadn't been finished at all... :lol: though they did sound good.

Totally agreed.  They feel handmade, in a rough-and-ready sort of way.  I once had two guitars with P-90s, a Gibson LP Special and a Hamer Special.  If you compared the timber, finishing and detailing, the Gibson was shocking... but it felt so much better.

I love the lower end Gibsons. I own the swamp ash SG (which is like a gloss nitro special) and a Les Paul vintage mahogany studio. £450 and £480 respectively, both with hard cases.
You read a lot about Gibson QC, but both these guitars were excellent straight out of the box. Maybe not flawless, bearing in mind I'm comparing them to stuff like PRS, but very playable, with nice fretwork (if not boutique) and no issues.

What they do have is some kind of indefinable mojo, or vibe, which seems to be missing on many other makes of guitar. It's not just imagined, 'cos it makes them sound good, and feel good, too.

I could have a beautiful PRS if I wanted, but having tried quite a few, courtesy (amongst others) of TF, who has some crackers, they just don't do it for me. A PRS may well be spot-on straigth out of the box, but that don't matter to me none. I'm not in a hurry. 

Highway One Fenders have it going on too.

[Twinfan]

I think it's you old guys who love Gibsons.  Us young guns love the new makers  ;)  :lol:

I've just never found the Gibson 'vibe', but others (like Martin) can't get away from it.

Horses for courses!

[martinw]

God, it's like an immune response!  :lol:

[Twinfan]

:lol:

[PhilKing]

I don't give a shitee about the make.  I have guitars from pretty much everyone under the sun.  One of my favourites for some sounds is an old Sears Silvertone hollowbody with DeArmond pickups that are about 1cm thick.  The pickups look like they wouldn't do anything, but they have an incredible sound.  I also have lots of Gibsons and Fenders, and a few PRS's too.  Really if the guitar sounds good acoustically and has no issues with the wood (warping, twisting, etc), then the rest of it can be fixed.  Issues are not confined to new stuff either,  I know someone with a real 57 strat that is unplayable in winter, but comes right back when the humidity comes up again.  My 57 neck moves quite a lot with humidity too.  I bet when they were new they were saying that they don't make Strats like they used to!

btw.  I really don't like the new PRS.  It reminds me of a cheap old Les Paul copy!

[Roobubba]

(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew.  But I do like the way they feel and look.  :) )

Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele  ;-D

Apart from a burned one...

[Lew]

What they do have is some kind of indefinable mojo, or vibe, which seems to be missing on many other makes of guitar. It's not just imagined, 'cos it makes them sound good, and feel good, too.

The reason it's indefinable is because it's an emotional connection that's personal to you...possibly from years of watching your heroes use it?

How do you get on with Strats? You should try the sc245 for an experiement and see how much of that feel you love in the Gibbo is actually the scale length  8)

(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew.  But I do like the way they feel and look.  :) )

Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele  ;-D

Apart from a burned one...

:lol:

[FernandoDuarte]

(* Points taken about nitro finishes, Lew.  But I do like the way they feel and look.  :) )

Oh man, nothing looks cooler than a beaten old Tele  ;-D

Apart from a burned one...

I like the smell of Faned-Fret NAPALMED in the morning... it smells like victory :twisted:
:lol:

[WezV]

i am quite confident roo's barry would survive a bit of fire, i cant imagine how long that bubinga and wenge would take to catch and burn through

an alder or ash tele wouldnt last as long :P